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RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination - 4/16/2007 3:59:40 PM

Stranger1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

My point exactly. But some expect it, it seems.

- Susan

To really understand many people, you have to live and think, feel and breathe as they do..............

Let me know when you manage it-I'll be beyond impressed.

Till then,we can both only theorize.

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RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination - 4/16/2007 4:03:43 PM

SusanofO

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Yes, true to a degree, although being able to imagine it is what I sometimes consider empathy, a good ability I've heard, to try to integrate in to a healthy relationship. Some folks manage this better than others, I guess. And I suppose there are those who don't consider it necessary at all, perhaps.

I am just trying to have a deeper discussion and am hoping some people will toss in personal examples from their own lives re: How parts of this philosophy actually apply in the everyday. I don't have any, because I haven't practiced as a Domme yet (or I would).

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/16/2007 4:17:11 PM >

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RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination - 4/16/2007 4:04:34 PM

Tristan

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D/s is a relationship. For that relationship to he "healthy", I think there needs to be respect and the desire to do what's in your partner's best interest. I've never enjoyed a partner who was completely centered on me. I like interaction too much.

I have an insatiable curiousity about nearly all things, and I want someone who loves to explore. I suppose in that way I want someone I consider an equal, but I also don't see anyone who submits as being less than my equal. A D/s relationship is about equals with complimentary natures.

I also have a strong desire to help my partner become the best she can be. I suppose that's the result of my protective nature.

Tristan

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RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination - 4/16/2007 4:05:49 PM

SusanofO

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Nice post, I completely agree.

- Susan

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"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination - 4/16/2007 4:07:08 PM

Stranger1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Yes, true. I am just trying to have a deeper discussion and am hoping some people would toss in personal examples from their own lives. I don't have any, because I haven't practiced as a Domme yet (or I would).

- Susan

We cannot control everything in our lives-a sad fact. Let me propose this. How would you feel if a favorite pet of yours had to relocate to a place far from you, for whatever reason? And you could not follow., Multiply 100 fold, and you will know how a good Dom/me would feel if the same happened with thier bottoms.

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RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination - 4/16/2007 4:10:27 PM

SusanofO

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Thanks for the example, I appreciate it.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination - 4/16/2007 4:37:42 PM

cloudboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

I have never heard the term. Where did you quote this from?

I got it from here.

http://www.polyamorysociety.org/glossary.html

Oooops, I see others found it.

Radical freedom and relationship support, total honestly and authentic being --- needless to say these can seriously conflict with Bondage, Discipline, and Rules. For instance BDSM could be used to cut others off from the world, other people --- and could be used by the Dom to strictly agenda set priorities for the sub. What the sub might want, might be completely secondary or even disallowed in such an arrangement.

On the other hand, BDSM might be used as a foundation for the autonomy of the sub. (There's some irony there.)

So, I think two separate and distinct schools of thought are in play here concerning the possible styles of dominance.

As MsCfromMelbourne has pointed out in her posting, there are two classic schools of Femdoms, the Bitch dommes and the maternal ones. So, I am kind of borrowing from her.

Although LA dismissed this definition as empty jargon, I liked the wording of it. What "new paradigm" means is expanded roles of support in relationships which allow for greater honesty and autonomy than one would find in say marriage, where the roles are strict and bounded for a lifetime.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 4/16/2007 4:55:01 PM >

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RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination - 4/16/2007 4:49:00 PM

SusanofO

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I have one example as a submssive. In my lastest attempt to establish a LT relationship with a Dominant, I ran across the notion that I was somehow "out of line" to expect him to provide me with such information as his last name, and street address, regardless of the fact I was flying over 1800 miles to meet with him.

He claimed to have good reasons for not wanting this information made public, and yet not knowing it flew in the face of most of what I'd read as far as "being safe" on a first meet, especially when meeting with someone from out of town, etc.
I even did believe him (mostly) about it being "needed to be kept private" (even though some folks told me he was probably lying about who he was.)

He really did believe it was his right as a Dominant, not to have to divulge this information, until we "knew eachother better", and said I should "just trust him". Well, this is one case where his "rights" were in direct conflict (I felt) with mine, (re: A need to see if, for instance, he had a record as far as seriously injuring anyone, etc), and we parted ways.

Too bad, too, since it could maybe have worked out and until then, things had beeen looking pretty good. I actually did get some sense I could trust him BUT - I also just figured anyone who couldn't compromise on something like that, didn't bode well for the future, in terms of considering my welfare, necessarily, in an egalitarian sense much (if any) of the time.

I could be wrong, but anyway (cloudboy's heard all this, and I won't beat it to death) - But - it was the best example of "Dominance gone wrong" I could think of in terms of notions of "Equality" being questioned, from my own D/s part of life.

I am sure people have their own, good, as well as bad examples. I know there are good examples of "Egalitarian dominance" working out well, and I don't want to necessarily dwell on the negative examples where it's been ignored as a notion.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/16/2007 5:38:59 PM >

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RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination - 4/16/2007 4:53:04 PM

Stranger1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I have one example as a submsisive. In my lastest attempt (still futile, inh the long-run) to establish a realtionship with a Dominant, I ran actoss the notion thta I was somehow "out of line" to expect him to provide me with such information as last name, and street address, regardless of the fact I was flying over 1800 miles to meet with him He claimed to have good reasons for not wanting this inform ation made public, and yet not knowing it flew in the face of most of what I'd read as far as "being safe" on a first meet, especially when meeting with someone from otu of town, etc.

He really did believe it was his right as a Domiannt not to divulge this information, until we "knew eachother better". Well, this is one case where his "rights" were in diretc conflict (I felt) with mine, and we parted ways.

Too bad, too, since it could maybe have worked out and until then, things had beeen looking pretty good. I just figured anyone who couldn't compromise on something like that, didn't bode well for the future, in terms of considering my welfare, necessarily, in an egalitarian sense much (if any) of the time. I could be wrong, but anyway (cloudboy's heard all this, and I won't beat it to death) - But - it was the best example of "Dominance gone wrong" I could think of in terms of niotions of "Equality" being questioned, from my own D/s part of life. I am sure peoploe have their own, godd, as well as bad examples.

- Susan
'

People err to caution on both sides of the equation. I find it funny, how many double standards we see here. Dom refuses to give up personal info-he's hiding something-abusive.

Sub does the same,she's "protecting herself."

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RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination - 4/16/2007 4:57:55 PM

SusanofO

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Actually I gave him all of my personal info. He'd had it for months, and had told me he was going to give me his before I got on a plane. It really ticked me off. I'd never expect it, and not give it in return. This kind of thinking really is one of my main "deal-breakers" (and I don't have very many). But anyway, on to greener pastures.

I am sure others have their own personal examples - don't ya'll?
Of good things and results, as well.

I know my ex-Dom investigated pony play with me a little, just because he knew I was interested, and it didn't really do much for him. I appreciated that a lot.He didn't have to do it. He wasn't the slightest bit interested in pony play, really.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/16/2007 5:02:05 PM >

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"Hope is the thing with feathers,
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And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination - 4/16/2007 5:00:59 PM

Stranger1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Actually I gave him all of my personal info. He'd had it for months, and had told me he was going to give me his before I got on a plane. It really ticked me off. I'd never expect it, and not givr it. This kind of thinkig really si one of my"deal-breakers" (and I dont have very many). But anyway, on to greener pastures.

- Susan

Oh,I wasn't picking on you Susan.

Just an observation. But I can well understand why you gave up on him-such lack of faith would be very distrubing to me as well.

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RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination - 4/16/2007 5:04:23 PM

SusanofO

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Thank you. So how come nobody's divulging any personal examples? Am I just a compulsive talker?
C'mon people. Spill it.

I know I for one, am waiting w/bated breath, to hear a few. I know you've got 'em - dontcha? You can always disguise under the heading: "Hypothetically speaking..."

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/16/2007 5:06:52 PM >

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And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination - 4/16/2007 5:11:40 PM

SusanofO

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*Does anybody ever find that Domme or Domninant can be both? Bitch and maternal, or thoughtful and nurturing, and yet sometimes very strict? If so, does this work well, or instead confuse your submissive?

I noticed a thread on here about "Passive-aggressive Dominants", and wonder how many do this, and maybe don't realize it. Ditto for submssives.

I know I have done it (occasionally, not very often), but am usually aware of it. I've never considered it my "right", just more a reaction to feeling pressured in a relationship, maybe. I know it can be damaging.

As a "style" I suppose it has "possibilities" - but I'd think both people would have to be into it, and I actually consider it more along the lines of Sadistic, in many ways, intentional or not.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/16/2007 5:27:51 PM >

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"Hope is the thing with feathers,
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And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination - 4/16/2007 5:44:25 PM

SusanofO

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I read KOM's (Knight of Mists) profile, and in it he says things like - "This is a "power enhancement" household" - but - he didn't detail how the notions of "power" were different for a Master and slave (or Dominant and submissive). And that is something I am curious about.

I think that notion may be a similar thought to the thread topic.

*Even if he holds the main power, the goal is that everyone there in that Polyamorous household, be enhanced with the interactions that take place, whether Master or slave.

They seem to be relatively happy, too, as a group (and they have UMs and everything, although I am not sure how many people are in Archer's household, altogether - Archer and Elegant. I wonder if anyone like that will read this and comment (hope so).

It is really a great topic, cloudboy, for anyone to comment on.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/16/2007 5:55:22 PM >

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"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination - 4/16/2007 5:54:58 PM

WhiplashSmile

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As a Dom I try to help my submissive/slave loved one, to encourage growth and in being all that they can be in life. Good sense of self esteem and worth. I try to seperate things from inside and outside the box of BDSM scene play. Humilation and degrading useful acts are kept to inside the box.

Outside the box, you'll find a submissive wanting to get you a cup of coffee and wanting to know what they can do for you. It's the very nature of the submissive to want to be of service and please. Why is it, so many Dom/mes get the impression they have to work hard at training or breaking a submissive into doing these things? As if they need to somehow be mean and cruel, just to get a cup of fucking coffee.. or to Force the sub into some kind of unwanted service? Makes me wonder how many people have their heads lost in BDSM scene play aspects, and don't understand anything about 24/7 dynamics outside the scene play box.

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RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination - 4/16/2007 6:00:57 PM

SusanofO

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WhiplashSmile: Yeah. When I first got here, I didn't really understand the notion of "training" and thought I was going to have to enroll in some academy somewhere, to be considered legit. Turns out it was mostly related to stuff like: "I want one cube of sugar in my coffee in the a.m., not two" (it really was, all notions of knowing how to give, or take, a good spanking for instance, aside).

Go figure. Although I do realize Doms need to really truly know how to use bdsm equipment.

I really, really like the "Inside vs. outside of the box" idea, as far as keeping degrading notions in perspective, insofar as they be "scene material only". I like degrading (or I should say humiliating) notions in "play" as much as anyone (maybe more, actually), but knowing "when to quit" cannot be over-estimated, as far as being important, IMO. Great comment.

I don't see myself (I am just taking in what you said and relating it to me personally) having real problems separating fantasy from reality, as far as what I see a submissive to be (or when I am a sub - I am a Switch), and I have a very vivid imagination. I just wonder how much being able to do that relates to someone's basic personal emotional stability. I do wonder - it isn't an assumption, I am plain curious.

I am not an "edge-player" in particular, but I fantasize about it a lot - and I wonder sometimes how well that works in real life. I can see where it might "deepen trust" - I really can. On the other hand, if it's not there, you cannot force it, IMO, so I imagine sometimes this becomes a "Catch-22" .

I've never really done an intense 24-7, so I can't say if that screws with one's head in a deep way - I suppose it could. Not that I am objecting - but caution might pay, depending on what one is expecting, as far as any "on-going" scene, for instance.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/16/2007 6:28:21 PM >

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And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination - 4/16/2007 6:39:56 PM

ownedgirlie

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Thanks to all who posted the link, and for your thoughts, Cloudboy. Personally, to me paradigm means a way that a person is set in thinking. In fact, years ago at work we viewed a great training video called "Paradigm Pioneers" which was quite effective in helping senior executives go through the paradigm shift they were required to, when we went public and merged a gazillion companies together.

So to me, the words "New Paradigm" just means a different way of thinking. I looked at that website and quite honestly thought someone had too much time on his/her hands. Perhaps helpful to some, and I do not mean to knock it, but sometimes we focus so much energy on discussing who and what we are, that we fail to actually live it.

But I digress...

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RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination - 4/16/2007 6:55:07 PM

SusanofO

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I believe people can grow together. But I also believe in paying attention to things like screaming red flags, as far as them being true indicators of someone's "Philosophy of Dominance", regardless of what they claim it may be - and in my latest example, I really felt I didn't want to ignore the red flag I perceived was there.

The relationship might have worked out, but he was actually (I felt) saying his "Philosophy" was one thing, and completely doing another. That really is a "deal-breaker" for me, if it is done on a large scale, or at the very beginning of a relationship. I don't think it is an indicator they truly believe that trust is a two way street.

I think a "My way or the highway" Dominance philospohy can work for me personally, although I prefer an Egalitarian one. I have to trust someone pretty deeply, and see it having been established in little ways first, to be able trust any "My way or the highway" thinking.

I am probably repeating stuff many say they already know, but it as really hit home for me lately, personally.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/16/2007 7:23:02 PM >

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RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination - 4/16/2007 7:01:11 PM

ownedgirlie

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Susan your reply was to me but I'm confused. Did you infer from my post that I don't think people can grow together?

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RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination - 4/16/2007 7:06:58 PM

SusanofO

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No. But maybe that some spend too much time thinking about their relationship, vs. living it. I was just explaining why I wasn't in one, currently. I did spend some time second-guessing my decision to forgo it, too.

But I do know what I am seeking, overall. I guess I didn't really find it yet, but know I will eventually. I helped me to really take apart what I thought went wrong, or what I maybe did wrong, in that instance. I don't think it was all his fault. But in any case, it's over, and life does go on.

I know your remarks weren't personally directed at me.

-Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/16/2007 7:10:11 PM >

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