RE: Breaking, 25 People killed in V.T. shooting.

RE: Breaking, 25 People killed in V.T. shooting. (Full Version)

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popeye1250 -> RE: Breaking, 25 People killed in V.T. shooting. (4/19/2007 9:39:42 AM)
I can give you an example of guns preventing crime! New Hampshire and Massachusetts are right next to each other. Mass has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country and it's almost impossible to get a permit to carry a gun there. In New Hampshire if you want to carry a gun you go down to your local police station or town hall, fill out an application, give them $10 and in two weeks after your background check you pick up your "permit." Massachusetts has TWENTY TIMES more house breaks than New Hampshire. Way out of line with the individual populations in each state. Mass has 6 times more people than N.H. It's simple, the bad guys know that if they break into a house in New Hampshire there is a much greater chance of getting shot. Restrictive gun laws only keep honest citizens from getting firearms. And in the last year in Boston there has been dozens of murders.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Breaking, 25 People killed in V.T. shooting. (4/19/2007 9:41:06 AM)
quote: Posters on the free republic citing numbers without reference really do not constitute proof. Doubtful it will make a difference, but here's another source - the Kennesaw Police Department. I'm sure that you'll belief they too are misrepresenting thier results. *quote:* City of Kennesaw 1981 (Year Before Gun Law Passed) Population: 5,242 Total Part 1 Crimes: (per 100,000 pop): 4,332 City of Kennesaw 2005 Population: 28,189 Total Part 1 Crimes (per 100,000): 2,027 -7% from 2004 U.S. Average 2005 Total Part 1 Crimes per 100,000: 3,899 Summary: Although the population of the City of Kennesaw and surrounding area has increased dramatically since 1981, on a per capita basis crimes rates were actually lower in 2005 than in 1981. Source: http://www.kennesaw.ga.us/index.asp?NID=137

juliaoceania -> RE: Breaking, 25 People killed in V.T. shooting. (4/19/2007 9:47:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Additionally, go see what the crime rates in Vermont are: Among the lowest in the nation and ZERO Gun Regulation. ZERO. I do not believe it is a coincidence. What does "zero gun regulation" mean? I am sincerely asking that question. Do people have the right to arm themselves in bars, stadiums, college campuses, and elementary schools when picking up their kids? The idea of this is so foriegn to me. I grew up in a place where people hung their hunting rifle in their pickup... but I also had a stray bullet come through our window because my neighbor was shooting wood peckers. I am not completely unfamilar with a gun culture, but I grew up where people did not lock their doors or cars up. I did not know anyone but the sherriffs that had a gun concealed, and the funny thing was, he was our "undercover" cop. Seriously FB, I am not against guns per se. I am very "gun shy" of carrying them willy nilly into crowded areas.. it just is outside of my experience.

darkinshadows -> RE: Breaking, 25 People killed in V.T. shooting. (4/19/2007 9:55:33 AM)
The violence, anger and condescending behaviour in your writings do nothing but prove to those who disagree with you, that those who advocate the freedom to carry arms are emotionally unaware and not in charge of their emotions for a high percentage of the time. Congratulations - you have just been enlightened. Oh - and please - feel free to attack away(Just endeavour to get the facts and statistics correct)[;)] Whatever happened to at least semi-polite discussion?[8\|] And here for the news - and statistical information... There are nearly 200 million privately owned firearms in the U.S A british citizen is 50 times less likely to be a victim of gun homicide than an american. One third of firearms are handguns. Average number of firearm thefts that occur every year in the US: 341,000 16 CHILDREN and teenagers are killed by gun accidents in the USA each day. Number of people killed every hour in the U.S. 4 Number of firearms produced by US manufacturers every minute: 8 Number of handguns produced by US manufacturers every minute: 3 Guns kept for self defence are 43 times more likely to be used to kill a friend or family member. Possessing a household gun increases the chance of suicide by five times. Number of murders committed in 1995 in the US: 20,043 Percentage of murders committed with a firearm: 68 (13,673) Percentage of murders committed with a handgun: 56 (11,198) (Source: FBI Uniform Crime Reports, 1995) Guns are used 5 times more often for self defence than for crime. Only 24 % of people who draw their guns actually fire them. 5,000 gun shows are held across america per year. Doctors, statistically, are more dangerous than a gun. (Police studies Review/FBI/Us Dept.Justice...) This is the end of the News...(passing onto Level[;)]) Peace and Rapture

popeye1250 -> RE: Breaking, 25 People killed in V.T. shooting. (4/19/2007 9:56:46 AM)
Julia, if you want to carry a gun in Vermont you just carry one. No "permit" needed. They don't think that you should need a "permit" to excercise a right. You don't need a "permit" to vote. And New Hampshire is headed in that direction too. And yes, Vermont has one of the lowest crime rates in the country!

juliaoceania -> RE: Breaking, 25 People killed in V.T. shooting. (4/19/2007 9:58:32 AM)
Are there places where guns are not allowed?

darkinshadows -> RE: Breaking, 25 People killed in V.T. shooting. (4/19/2007 9:59:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Are there places where guns are not allowed? In my house? Peace and Rapture an a big 'ole hug

juliaoceania -> RE: Breaking, 25 People killed in V.T. shooting. (4/19/2007 10:02:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: darkinshadows quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Are there places where guns are not allowed? In my house? Peace and Rapture an a big 'ole hug Mine too...smiles. But Sinergy has recommended that I learn how to fire one, just to know what it is like. A learning experience. I think that is probably a good idea since it may take some of my fear of guns away to do so. It is not good to fear objects, knowing about them is a good thing. I will not want one because of the statistics you just posted...

popeye1250 -> RE: Breaking, 25 People killed in V.T. shooting. (4/19/2007 10:09:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Are there places where guns are not allowed? Well, I have a copy of "The Travellers Guide to the Firearms Laws of the Fifty States" and you can't carry a gun in "Courthouses, schools and state institutions." You can carry a gun in Vermont "openly" like a handgun on your hip or concealed, in a car, loaded." Shotguns and rifles must be "un-loaded" while carried in a vehicle in Vermont. I bet they change that "schools" part.

juliaoceania -> RE: Breaking, 25 People killed in V.T. shooting. (4/19/2007 10:12:07 AM)
Then Vermont has some laws that restrict where one can carry,... thanks for pointing that out.

stef -> RE: Breaking, 25 People killed in V.T. shooting. (4/19/2007 10:15:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 I can give you an example of guns preventing crime! New Hampshire and Massachusetts are right next to each other. Mass has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country and it's almost impossible to get a permit to carry a gun there. Nonsense. It's almost impossible to get one if you live in Boston, but many towns grant permits. Check packing.org for more information. quote: Massachusetts has TWENTY TIMES more house breaks than New Hampshire. Way out of line with the individual populations in each state. Mass has 6 times more people than N.H. It's simple, the bad guys know that if they break into a house in New Hampshire there is a much greater chance of getting shot. I think that population density might have a little to do with it as well. I would be curious to see how many of those break-ins occur in densely populated areas as opposed to rural areas. ~stef

juliaoceania -> RE: Breaking, 25 People killed in V.T. shooting. (4/19/2007 10:22:35 AM)
I know a little about Kennesaw GA. My former dom talked about moving there, they have a college campus in that city, and his daughters lived there with his ex wife. Kennesaw has grown a lot over the last several years. If I am not mistaken it is a fairly expensive and upscale place to live and has become increasingly so over the last couple of decades. Part of the reason why is because people moved there to escape the problems of metro atlanta. As people have moved father out from the perimeter of atlanta, they displaced the poor that had been in these areas. It would be interesting to see how economic prosperity for the Kennesaw area interfaces with the fall in crime. Edited to add, I live in a suburb of a city that has higher crime right down the street from me. I mean within a few blocks there is an increase in murders, gang violence, and a host of other social ills... the only difference is our police. The police where I live take no shit off anyone. The police in the neighboring city often live in my city. It is law enforcement that made the difference, not gun laws.

popeye1250 -> RE: Breaking, 25 People killed in V.T. shooting. (4/19/2007 10:25:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Then Vermont has some laws that restrict where one can carry,... thanks for pointing that out. Julia, I don't think you can carry in courthouses in any state for whatever reason. But, I do think that Boyscouts and Girlscouts can take their guns to school if they're going to an organised shoot after school in Vermont, N.H., and Maine.

popeye1250 -> RE: Breaking, 25 People killed in V.T. shooting. (4/19/2007 10:28:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stef quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 I can give you an example of guns preventing crime! New Hampshire and Massachusetts are right next to each other. Mass has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country and it's almost impossible to get a permit to carry a gun there. Nonsense. It's almost impossible to get one if you live in Boston, but many towns grant permits. Check packing.org for more information. quote: Massachusetts has TWENTY TIMES more house breaks than New Hampshire. Way out of line with the individual populations in each state. Mass has 6 times more people than N.H. It's simple, the bad guys know that if they break into a house in New Hampshire there is a much greater chance of getting shot. I think that population density might have a little to do with it as well. I would be curious to see how many of those break-ins occur in densely populated areas as opposed to rural areas. ~stef Damn Stef, that's where you need to be carrying a gun, in Boston! Not in some one horse town out in the Berkshires where they still have party lines.

Casie -> RE: Breaking, 25 People killed in V.T. shooting. (4/19/2007 10:40:17 AM)
Just wanted tho throw out there two examples of permited gun carriers keeping school shooting deahts to a minum. Last year at a law school inVA not to far from the one we are talking about now some crazy person started shooting people, A couple permited gun owners ran to their cars armed themselves confronted the shooter he dropped his gun and they help him until the police arrived. Another can't remember where this happend a student shot his principal the vice principal was a permited gun carrier, he had to park a quarter mile from the school, he ran the half mile round trip got his gun confronted the student and only two people were injured. This student also droped his weapon and was repermanded by the police. The fact of the matter is there are BAD EVIL people in this world, there always have been. Are we gonna be sitting ducks, or are we gonna protect ourselves and those around us. MOST legal gun owners are responsible people. Bad guys will get their hands on guns even it they are illegal DC is a perfect example. Criminals pefer unarmed victoms. People are barbaric it's been that way LONG before guns and it will continue to be that way. There was violent crime massacare and the such. I feel horrible for the familes and about the whole situation. But thats life. Stuff like this happens. And alot of lives could have been saved if even ONE student had a right to carry. I've taken a home defense course, and gun saftey courses, and you better believe when I turn 21 I'll be getting my right to carry permit. It's called survivle instinct! My husband and I have a gun safe full of guns, not only for home defense, but even more so because my husband, his father , and grandfather all go target shooting together, it's something they enjoy and a hobbie.

juliaoceania -> RE: Breaking, 25 People killed in V.T. shooting. (4/19/2007 10:50:03 AM)
Were these incidents reported in the local paper? Which paper would be the one to search for these stories. I would be interested in reading them

Casie -> RE: Breaking, 25 People killed in V.T. shooting. (4/19/2007 11:19:04 AM)
I don't normally read papers. And I didn't see this on the national news the media tends to stear clear of stories in which guns saved lifes.I read about it on glocktalk and other message boards for gun owners, they had links to the stories. I will try to find them but seeing as these happend over a year ago it may take me while :). Edit- If I can't fing the links there I will ask my father in law I'm sure he has them bookmarked on his PC

MadRabbit -> RE: Breaking, 25 People killed in V.T. shooting. (4/19/2007 11:50:23 AM)
Well...at least look on the bright side. Politicians, religous leaders, political groups, and activists all now have the actions of a single, disturbed individual to use as fuel to support their own issues that very little to do with what happened and its cause.

popeye1250 -> RE: Breaking, 25 People killed in V.T. shooting. (4/19/2007 1:49:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Were these incidents reported in the local paper? Which paper would be the one to search for these stories. I would be interested in reading them Julia, a talkshow host out of Boston who I listen to every afternoon also mentioned those two incidents and the fact that they didn't get a lot of "Press."

DomKen -> RE: Breaking, 25 People killed in V.T. shooting. (4/19/2007 2:03:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I know a little about Kennesaw GA. My former dom talked about moving there, they have a college campus in that city, and his daughters lived there with his ex wife. Kennesaw has grown a lot over the last several years. If I am not mistaken it is a fairly expensive and upscale place to live and has become increasingly so over the last couple of decades. Part of the reason why is because people moved there to escape the problems of metro atlanta. As people have moved father out from the perimeter of atlanta, they displaced the poor that had been in these areas. It would be interesting to see how economic prosperity for the Kennesaw area interfaces with the fall in crime. Edited to add, I live in a suburb of a city that has higher crime right down the street from me. I mean within a few blocks there is an increase in murders, gang violence, and a host of other social ills... the only difference is our police. The police where I live take no shit off anyone. The police in the neighboring city often live in my city. It is law enforcement that made the difference, not gun laws. I grew up in metro Atlanta and have a brother wholives and works in the Kennesaw area. The town is basically very upscale subdivisions and stripmalls now. Not an area I would expect a lot of violent crime in. 25 years ago Kennesaw was not even on the fringe of the metro area and was a rural poor town on the edge of appalachia. It was the sort of place you would expect a fair amount of bar fights, wife beatings and robberies to occur in. Claiming the towns gun laws somehow make the entire region safer seems a little odd and I'm quite sure their crime rate is not very different from other parts of the North metro area.

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