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embarrassment vs. humiliation - 4/16/2007 4:51:05 PM   
AnonymouseTC


Posts: 30
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		This is kind of a random thought (and one that hopefully hasn't been posted a million times) but I was wondering if anyone else had ever thought about the difference between embarrassment and humiliation.

I ask because I was having a conversation with someone the other day and found myself making kind of a distinction between the two. I was saying that I could have fun with some embarrassment but wasn't into "humiliation." I'm not sure if (at least to me) the two things are related but a question of degree or if the two things are totally separate. I'm pretty new to bdsm so I don't pretend to have given this a ton of thought but it struck me as kind of funny how different my reactions were to the two words. The one I was cool with, the other not interested at all. I suppose though it depends strongly on how you define the words since some people are totally open for almost anything and others are very sensitive.

Anyways sorry to ramble, was just curious :)
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RE: embarrassment vs. humiliation - 4/16/2007 5:13:20 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		From dictionary.com

em·bar·rass      /ɛmˈbærəs/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[em-bar-uhs] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –verb (used with object) 1.to cause confusion and shame to; make uncomfortably self-conscious; disconcert; abash: His bad table manners embarrassed her. 2.to make difficult or intricate, as a question or problem; complicate. 3.to put obstacles or difficulties in the way of; impede: The motion was advanced in order to embarrass the progress of the bill. 4.to beset with financial difficulties; burden with debt: The decline in sales embarrassed the company. –verb (used without object) 5.to become disconcerted, abashed, or confused.
hu·mil·i·ate      /hyuˈmɪliˌeɪt or, often, yu-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hyoo-mil-ee-eyt or, often, yoo-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –verb (used with object), -at·ed, -at·ing. to cause (a person) a painful loss of pride, self-respect, or dignity; mortify.

So, to me, embarrassment deals with shaming someone while humiliation deals with your sense of self-worth or respect. They can be related, but don't have to be.

Master Fire


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(in reply to AnonymouseTC)
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RE: embarrassment vs. humiliation - 4/16/2007 5:23:23 PM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

So, to me, embarrassment deals with shaming someone while humiliation deals with your sense of self-worth or respect. They can be related, but don't have to be.

Master Fire



And here I would have said that, to me, humiliation and embarrassment were the same thing, but 'degredation' had to do with self-worth.

There's a distinction between humiliation and degredation.  But one, or the other or both, can be part of one's dynamic.

Jeff

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RE: embarrassment vs. humiliation - 4/16/2007 6:06:00 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Reposted:
Embarrassment is a feeling of awkwardness, uncomfortably self-conscious or out of placeness while humiliation is putting someone in a mindset of being humbled towards another.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_557686/mpage_1/key_humiliation/tm.htm#557707
Embarassment vs humiliation

http://www.collarchat.com/m_354018/mpage_1/key_humiliation/tm.htm#354196
humiliation???

http://www.collarchat.com/m_412944/mpage_1/key_humiliation/tm.htm#413037
what is good humiliation to you?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_426015/mpage_1/key_humiliation/tm.htm#426025
humiliation vs degradation

http://www.collarchat.com/m_489256/mpage_1/key_humiliation/tm.htm#489324
humiliation and vulnerability

http://www.collarchat.com/m_310209/mpage_1/key_humiliation/tm.htm#310223
Humiliation- verbal and physical

http://www.collarchat.com/m_266448/mpage_1/key_humiliation/tm.htm#266532
humiliation ideas

Slaves on display via webcam?

Fat Cow? Verbal humiliation (rehashed)

Humiliation and Degradation

Erotic Humiliation

Female Humiliation- in the scene

Asking for humiliation

Favorite Forms of humiliation

Humiliation

Humliation Play

Favorite forms of humiliation

Erotic Humiliation and Objectification

Why such problems with humiliation?

Fun ideas for humiliation

Humiliation (2)

Verbal Humiliation

Help with humiliation please!

Your thoughts on humiliation please

Questions about humiliation


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RE: embarrassment vs. humiliation - 4/16/2007 6:10:56 PM   
mythi


Posts: 257
Joined: 2/25/2007
From: Naples, FL
Status: offline 		degrade:
 
1 a : to lower in grade, rank, or status : DEMOTE b : to strip of rank or honors c : to lower to an inferior or less effective level <degrade the image quality> d : to scale down in desirability or salability
2 a : to bring to low esteem or into disrepute <his actions have degraded his profession> b : to drag down in moral or intellectual character : CORRUPT
3 : to impair in respect to some physical property <material degraded by exposure to sunlight>
4 : to wear down by erosion
5 : to reduce the complexity of (a chemical compound) : DECOMPOSE
intransitive verb
1 : to pass from a higher grade or class to a lower
2 of a chemical compound : to become reduced in complexity


Sounds like degrading has more a connotation of taking something away from a person, of actually making them less than before. (no thank you).  I personally do find a distinction between embarassment and humiliation, humiliation being more personal.  Having said that, I straight up prefer it to embarassment.  Go figure.

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RE: embarrassment vs. humiliation - 4/16/2007 6:22:39 PM   
selfbnd411


Posts: 598
Joined: 7/23/2005
Status: offline 		I would say that the source of embarassment is internal, but the source of humiliation is external.  One is a feeling that comes from within you, and the other is a feeling that results from the actions of another.

(in reply to mythi)
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RE: embarrassment vs. humiliation - 4/16/2007 6:37:32 PM   
amiciaN


Posts: 228
Joined: 1/20/2007
Status: offline 		I too separate embarrassment from humiliation.  I blush easily and can also be a bit gullible at times-- at 46 I still fall for the spot-on-the-shirt/nose thing.  Master finds this a delightful combination to play with and often teases that I am 'easy prey'.  He can make me feel awkward and 'caught', but it is always with me giggling and never to the point where my basic dignity or worth is ever questioned or attacked.  That fact makes the experience fun and keeps me His willing prey.   

There are those that enjoy humiliation and that is fine, just not one of my kinks

As always, just my opinion and experience; ymmv.


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RE: embarrassment vs. humiliation - 4/16/2007 7:02:52 PM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline 		Speaking of embrassment.  There are times when I find embrassment is the perfect opportunity to met somebody or to seize a moment in.   Actually this last Sunday, I took a small road trip to see my uncle.  On the way back home, I stopped in a convientent store for a cup of coffee.   There was this beautiful girl there getting a cup of coffee as well.  We had locked eyes for a moment.  Amazing feeling in itself when this happens.  Anyways, I resumed pouring my coffee and she was getting done pouring hers.   Now, here's the awkward moment, while she was reaching for the lids.. she somehow managed to make a Lid mess all over the place.  Several coffee cup lids here there and everywhere.   I'm not certain perhaps she was somewhat distracted by me though.  Anyways, we locked eyes again, she was flushed with embrassment in the face.  OH... Lovely sight to see!   Like tiny fish in the presence of a DOM shark.  So I had to verbally move in for the Kill now!  "Careful those lids can be a real bitch when your distracted"... her face turned even more flush..  I had joking said it.  Anyways we chatted for a bit, allowing her to go ahead of me in the checkout line.  Great moment in time.  Ended up saying goodbye to her.   The thing is that Embrassment can be great, when you catch somebody doing something to be embrassed about.  At times, I have found that some people enjoy the attention for it, if anything it can help break the ice.  It can help bring one closer to another.  Be it in a 24/7 relationship, or with a strange Beautiful women in a convient store.

Now in regards to humilation, I tend to keep this limited to BDSM scene play or when I have to deal with putting a Narcissistic person, asshole idiot, or bitch in thier place.   One in fantasy humiliation and the other is the real deal...   I do love to reach inside the minds of Narcissistic people at times and crush it for the empty beer can that it is.  I actually find and enjoy this activitity at times, then again I have a sadistic side to my personality, that loves to dish things out to people that deserve it, and need it.   I tend to do things with a purpose or reason behind it, I'm not into mindless or senseless acts.






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RE: embarrassment vs. humiliation - 4/16/2007 8:35:06 PM   
Casie


Posts: 450
Joined: 1/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: selfbnd411

I would say that the source of embarassment is internal, but the source of humiliation is external.  One is a feeling that comes from within you, and the other is a feeling that results from the actions of another.

This is exacally what I was thinking.....


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RE: embarrassment vs. humiliation - 4/16/2007 8:56:58 PM   
AnonymouseTC


Posts: 30
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		" He can make me feel awkward and 'caught', but it is always with me giggling and never to the point where my basic dignity or worth is ever questioned or attacked.  That fact makes the experience fun and keeps me His willing prey.    "

I thought that this post really kind of explained my basic sense of how I separate out the two. I guess I just attach a kind of different overall "vibe" to the two even though I can easily see how for a lot of people their definitions and meanings are more similar. I also though MasterFireMaam's post was interesting and close to my thoughts too in the way (to me at least) there is some kind of clear, if hard to explain, difference.

Really cool responses and some great links to previous posts too :)

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RE: embarrassment vs. humiliation - 4/17/2007 2:17:20 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		i look to the motive behind all actions.  i have been humiliated and i have been embarassed i have even been degraded in the definition of being lowered in rank.  What maked the difference in whether they are good or bad is in the motive behind them.  Going through a humiliating act or even a degrading act with the purpose of helping my surrender, actually raises my self-esteem.  This world of D/s and BDSM is so full of paradox that so often the standard definitions don't apply.  It is like my feeling more free by bondage more worthy in slavery.  So humiliation or embarassment?  Was motive behind the act designed to help or hurt?

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RE: embarrassment vs. humiliation - 4/17/2007 2:50:47 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

i look to the motive behind all actions.  i have been humiliated and i have been embarassed i have even been degraded in the definition of being lowered in rank.  What maked the difference in whether they are good or bad is in the motive behind them.  Going through a humiliating act or even a degrading act with the purpose of helping my surrender, actually raises my self-esteem.  This world of D/s and BDSM is so full of paradox that so often the standard definitions don't apply.  It is like my feeling more free by bondage more worthy in slavery.  So humiliation or embarassment?  Was motive behind the act designed to help or hurt?


I like this post and think it explains the difference between BDSM humiliation and what would be termed as humiliation in the dictionary. Just as we have ‘good pain’ and ‘bad pain’, so too do we have ‘good humiliation’ and bad.
Its such a broad umbrella with so many grey areas but done properly to the player that desires it then it can be mind blowing!

Like Whiplash says, humiliation used or a narcissistic dominant is sometimes needed. I was recently playing with a male sub in public when an uba Dom approached us, leaned over him and said to me in a loud voice, ‘what’s it like to play with a pathetic individual that likes to call himself a man?’. I replied ‘ I wouldn’t know Master X because I have not yet had the opportunity to play with you’.

Now there is a huge difference between that and using humiliation as a means to a good head trip. To put someone on eye and speech deprivation in a crowded room could be deemed as humiliating to some, where as you may have to go as deep as degrading to humiliate others.
It’s a hugely individual thing but to me humiliation and embarrassment within BDSM are one of the same things.


(in reply to eyesopened)
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RE: embarrassment vs. humiliation - 4/17/2007 6:25:53 AM   
mp072004


Posts: 381
Joined: 12/22/2005
Status: offline 		When prospective playmates tell me that they enjoy "humiliation," "embarrassment," or "degradation," I ask for further definitions of what they want--definitions that don't use those three words. I don't think BDSMers have collectively developed consistent definitions of any of the words. It's reasonably safe to assume that kinky people us them to refer to some emotional state, and play involving those words involves head games. But even that isn't watertight--I recall one bizarre conversation with a person who regarded humiliation play as having nothing to do with a mental or emotional state--for this person, watersports was "humiliation play" even though it didn't make him feel embarrassed or humiliated or ashamed or degraded. Even if you can reasonably understand humiliation to refer to something emotional, you will still want to determine the precise nature of the desired emotion.

So, for you, if embarrassment means something bad and humiliation means something good, then explain, "Feeling like this is something I don't want. These things make me feel that way, so don't do them. However, I DO want to feel this other way, and these words/activities/postures make me feel that way." I wouldn't advise you to worry too much about the terms.

Monica

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RE: embarrassment vs. humiliation - 4/17/2007 8:18:34 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mp072004

When prospective playmates tell me that they enjoy "humiliation," "embarrassment," or "degradation," I ask for further definitions of what they want--definitions that don't use those three words. I don't think BDSMers have collectively developed consistent definitions of any of the words. It's reasonably safe to assume that kinky people us them to refer to some emotional state, and play involving those words involves head games. But even that isn't watertight--I recall one bizarre conversation with a person who regarded humiliation play as having nothing to do with a mental or emotional state--for this person, watersports was "humiliation play" even though it didn't make him feel embarrassed or humiliated or ashamed or degraded. Even if you can reasonably understand humiliation to refer to something emotional, you will still want to determine the precise nature of the desired emotion.

So, for you, if embarrassment means something bad and humiliation means something good, then explain, "Feeling like this is something I don't want. These things make me feel that way, so don't do them. However, I DO want to feel this other way, and these words/activities/postures make me feel that way." I wouldn't advise you to worry too much about the terms.

Monica


Yep Im completely with you on this one. Communication is the key thing because when humiliation is done wrongly it usually ends a potential relationship.

And humiliation is such a broad spectrum, that Im not surpred it’s a confusing subject for a newbie sub, especially as we have been brought up to understand humiliation as a negative word.


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RE: embarrassment vs. humiliation - 4/17/2007 11:31:06 AM   
TopinPa


Posts: 111
Joined: 6/11/2006
Status: offline 		There has been some great definitions given here so as a Dominant what I can add is the difference in the reaction of the submissive as I've personally experienced it

When a submissive woman experiences humiliation in a verbal sexual way; being called slut, whore, tramp, etc...it seems to be very sexually stimulating to her

When I've seen a woman, sub or otherwise experience embarrassment, there isn't any kind of pleasure involved, sexual or otherwise

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RE: embarrassment vs. humiliation - 4/17/2007 11:52:37 AM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		i think the word embarassed implies accidental - Humiliation would be on purpose.  Also you can embarass yourself, but the intent is different then when someone tries to humiliate you. For instance you slip and fall, others will get no benefit from it, nor will you yourself, you get embarassed, and don't wish to repeat the incident. When someone does something to humiliate you (in a bdsm sense) there is usually a well thought out intent and anticipated outcome.   

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RE: embarrassment vs. humiliation - 4/18/2007 3:37:08 PM   
ScreamerGirl


Posts: 65
Joined: 1/8/2005
Status: offline 		I make a big distinction between erotic embarassment, humiliation and degradation.  Not everyone does.

From an essay I wrote on this subject several years ago:

Embarrassment – To cause to feel self-conscious or ill at ease

Humiliation – To lower the pride, dignity or self-respect of another

Degradation – To dishonor; to reduce in rank or status; to lower in moral character; to reduce in worth or value

For me, those three words conjure up completely different images.  Maybe they don't for you, and the lines aren't clear. Let me show you my lines.

Embarrassment: In a quiet movie theater, he leans to you and whispers, "Are your panties wet, little girl?";
Or
You're standing in Safeway, near the frozen foods, and he announces rather loudly that you're out of KY Jelly, and would you please pick some up and put it in the basket? (yes, my ex did this.  yes, I blushed.  yes, he still remembers it and laughs 14 years later)

Humiliation:  You are kneeling in the living room, naked, your head against his hip and begging for sex, using explicit language,  and declaring how unworthy you are that he bestow such an honor on you;
Or
You crawl across the living room floor, head down, quiet, to drink out of a bowl on the floor, next to his chair.

Degradation: You are made to urinate in your own panties, and sleep in them, after being told that you aren't worth the water to clean yourself up;
Or
He asks, in front of friends, "You're just too stupid to understand, aren't you?"

*shrug* I still pretty much feel the same about it.

Everyone has a different line for these three things.  Your line is your line.  Enforce it or cross it at your own risk.


< Message edited by ScreamerGirl -- 4/18/2007 3:38:04 PM >

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RE: embarrassment vs. humiliation - 4/18/2007 6:09:30 PM   
kandcb


Posts: 1
Joined: 2/2/2006
Status: offline 		i dont know if there is a true differance in termanolagy or just the way each individual looks at it

(in reply to ScreamerGirl)
Profile   Post #: 18
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