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cross contamination - 4/17/2007 3:19:36 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		How much do you worry about cross contamination?  Im not talking sex so much as tools and equipment.

What sort of things do you think we should worry about or be aware of?

Would you take a hep B jab as a general precaution?
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: cross contamination - 4/17/2007 4:24:27 AM   
MsCfromMelbourne


Posts: 777
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline 		If you are a commercial operator, it is worth investing in an autoclave to sterilise everything easily.  Wash your ropes in the usual way, use disposable gloves and condoms, make clients bring their own insertibles, have disinfectant spray on hand.....there's lots of ideas

Perhaps the same vaccinations given to nursing staff in your region would be a good start




_____________________________

<----- Corset, mask and collar designed and manufactured by metalsmith Karl H, chromed and lined in black suede. Masks and collars available from http://www.lucreziadesade.com.au/default.html. Corsets custom made only

(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: cross contamination - 4/17/2007 5:58:26 AM   
MsKatHouston


Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline 		I don't worry too much about it because I only play with a couple people.  I clean and sterilize tools I use on multiple people and have items that are only for personal use such as insertables and anything that draws blood. 

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: cross contamination - 4/17/2007 7:11:21 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		The reason for the post is, it disturbs me how many dominants I see playing with obviously dirty tools. They may well be safe but when you see them going from one person to the next and perhaps drawing blood, then obviously the recipients are not safe, some Mistresses seem particularly fond at doing this with nails!
I mean, I wonder how many subs would dare to ask “have you ever drawn blood with that cane Mistress?”

I know one particular dominant on the scene that has a very special cane. He takes it everywhere with great pride and loves to show the thing off. The worrying thing is, he’s a sadist and he likes to cane hard, often breaking the skin but the cane is porous and so impossible to clean

(in reply to MsKatHouston)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: cross contamination - 4/17/2007 8:36:22 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		When I have more than one partner, any tool that crosses the skin barrier or is used for any type of insertion is a one-person tool.

This why I think any thing that is inserted is best to be owned by the bottom/sub.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: cross contamination - 4/17/2007 9:15:18 AM   
TigressFL


Posts: 239
Joined: 6/8/2006
Status: offline 		I agree with TammyJo, anything that has been used with open skin, insertion or in the vaginal/anal area is either cleaned, packaged and used only for that person or is tossed out.

Tigress~FL

(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: cross contamination - 4/17/2007 10:40:01 AM   
earthycouple


Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline 		I am a nurse and I hesitate to even begin on this path because I'm over the top about cleanliness and cross contamination. 

There are solutions for this, as several Dominants have already pointed out.  I always have condoms available too...just becareful if you are putting a condom over a plug or some such thing that you don't "lose it".  There are cleaning solutions available and you can make your own bleach solutions.  Also, sterilization in it's most basic form can be done with a pressure cooker, and clean can be obtained by boiling.  As for the guy with the cane...avoid him like the plauge and educate others.  I can't spend my life watching what other people do and then trying to make them realize what they are doing is wrong...so I try to educated where I can, and avoid when nececssary. 

D~

(in reply to TigressFL)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: cross contamination - 4/17/2007 11:04:24 AM   
Rumtiger


Posts: 2634
Joined: 3/4/2006
From: Vegas
Status: offline 		meh, I get paranoid just cooking chicken, much less even thinking about this stuff.

_____________________________

Fuck the Pandas!
-Moi

Mmm, I love me some kickboxers, you know why? Cause ya'll cant take a punch!
- Quentin Tarantino.

If they cant take a joke, fuck em.
-Tucker Max

(in reply to earthycouple)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: cross contamination - 4/17/2007 2:32:57 PM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		Thanks for the replies with all the sensible stuff. I am not a nurse but one of the people I was lucky enough to learn medical play from was a scrub nurse. She taught me a lot about cross donor contamination such as needle sticks and the like and also gave me some good sterilizing tips.
I know we can all get a bit paranoid about this and people will shout out about policing their fun but I really believe that this is one place in BDSM where we should all take the time to educate ourselves.

(in reply to Rumtiger)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: cross contamination - 4/17/2007 2:52:43 PM   
leatherorlace


Posts: 215
Joined: 2/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

How much do you worry about cross contamination?  Im not talking sex so much as tools and equipment.

What sort of things do you think we should worry about or be aware of?

Would you take a hep B jab as a general precaution?

Lest we forget, Hep B is only one of a growing alphabet soup of infectious agents. The last that, I read the Hepatitis list had grown to Hep H and has probably mutated beyond that by now.
  There's a longer list of other bacteriums and viral agents that are making their presences known to the modern medical practitioners, and some reappearance of some diseases that were thought to be defeated and eradicated.
With the influx of peoples from many nations there's also a greater danger of encountering one or more of infectious diseases. The travelers that use airlines, rails, buses and the like are more at risk than those that choose rickshaws. lol
  My Hous is poly-fidelity and I realized long ago that any promiscious, anonymous or casual encounters were not only sources for contagions, but the infections could be prevented by only sessioning with those people that follow some simple rules of behaviour without compromise.
  A battery of labwork, physical exams and future practices to protect everyone concerned makes for more imaginative and spontaneous interactions.
Gentry

(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: cross contamination - 4/17/2007 7:32:18 PM   
BeachMystress


Posts: 2156
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
Status: offline 		Since my sub is also my husband, it concerns me a lot. I will not lend anyone anything I can not sterilize. (I have a large toy collection and am often asked to let someone try out part of it.) Even a flogger that never breaks the skin ends up with bodily fluids on it, in the form of serum and sweat. If you've been watching TV lately you've probably seen the commercials about the fact that one in four people with HIV aren't aware that they have it. Scary to think they may be one of those people who is sub to a top who doesn't clean the toys before sharing them, huh?

I do understand what you're saying about canes. I have flat bamboo canes that are single person use because they always break skin or at least draw serum to the surface. Luckily I found them at the 99cent store and am fine with gifting them to the person on whom they were used. My main canes are custom made and resin coated. This not only makes them stronger and harder to break, but  also makes them non porous and able to be cleaned and sterilized. My feeling is that regular canes should never be used for more than one person unless you have current negative test results for Hep B & C and HIV.

As for dildos, due to offgassing by jelly dildos http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=876860 I replaced my entire collection with silicone several years ago. Silicone is non porous and can be boiled. Even still, if I used them with someone other than my husband (not likely to happen) I would use a condom.

_____________________________

Beach Mystress
*Do not threaten the weak. Intimidate the strong. ~ Stevenson*
http://beachmystress.jigsy.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachmystress/

(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: cross contamination - 4/17/2007 8:05:47 PM   
HutchGarahl


Posts: 562
Joined: 1/10/2007
Status: offline 		When I have more than one person at a time for play, ech have their own toys to be used and I have marked each one so as to not get them confused with the others as sometimes things get mixed in the heat. Every toy is clened and sterilized after every play.

(in reply to BeachMystress)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: cross contamination - 4/17/2007 10:12:48 PM   
PsyVamp


Posts: 1026
Joined: 10/30/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

The reason for the post is, it disturbs me how many dominants I see playing with obviously dirty tools. They may well be safe but when you see them going from one person to the next and perhaps drawing blood, then obviously the recipients are not safe, some Mistresses seem particularly fond at doing this with nails!



I refuse to draw blood during play when I bite or scratch during casual play - its just not worth the risks...  now, if it was just one person I played with, that might change. 

_____________________________

Don't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive. .
Could a blue screen of death constitute being defenestrated?
~Owner of wolf~ (one of them, anyway)

(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: cross contamination - 4/17/2007 11:40:08 PM   
Elorin


Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

How much do you worry about cross contamination?  Im not talking sex so much as tools and equipment.

I don't worry too much due to how I clean my toys and how frequently I play, combined with my research/knowledge of how long viruses and bacteria can live outside of the body.

quote:

What sort of things do you think we should worry about or be aware of?

I think you should be aware of how bloodborn pathogens are spread, how STDs are spread, which bodily fluids can pass which pathogens, how long pathogens can survive inside and outside the body. I think you should know the difference between anti-bacterial and anti-microbial and "hand sanitizer" and you should know which kind of ingredient is in your toy cleaner. I think you should know how effective your toycleaner is against pathogens, and I think you should know whether cleaning your toys is a waste of time (porous vs. non-porous).
I think you should worry about playing with more than one person in the same night and managing to transfer diseases from one to another, and take precautions against it. I think you should worry about getting or giving STDs and take precautions against it. I think you should worry about drawing blood and contaminating something in a dungeon accidentally where someone else will be exposed to it. I think you should worry about what your partner has but doesn't know about, and how you can prevent it from spreading, and use those precautions with ALL non-fluid bonded play partners.

quote:

Would you take a hep B jab as a general precaution?

No, but that's just b/c I got the three Hep B jabs in high school or college, can't remember which and don't have my shot record handy.

~E

(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: cross contamination - 4/18/2007 12:27:13 AM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
Im not talking sex so much as tools and equipment.


I simply put condom over my floggers and that seems to work well.

Just kidding ;-)

I have acquired a variety of implements to suit different tastes so as to reduce the likelihood of the issues you suggest.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: cross contamination - 4/18/2007 2:27:56 AM   
sydneypig


Posts: 45
Joined: 5/19/2005
Status: offline 		Australians can refer to the Australian Standard 4187 which relates to the process of decontamination, sterilization,storage and handling of surgical instruments. I would recommend that autoclave sterilization should be the primary method  used.Most surgical instruments are processed on a "wrapped "cycle at 4 minutes sterilization at 134 degrees and a 10 minute drying cycle. It is not recommended to process items on a "flash" or "unwrapped"cycle.Items which can be sterilized of differant material are usually processed at a lower temperature but longer sterilization time.Cannulated items  are for single use only.After intial decontamination (use a detergent that will not leave residue eg:sonidet) items are placed in an ultrasonic cleaner for at least 3 minutes.

(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: cross contamination - 4/18/2007 3:02:49 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		Thanks so much for all this information. I think its something that we can never stop learning about.

Everyone seems to worry about HIV but like someone else here mentioned, Hepatitis is the bigger risk because it can remain stable off the body for much longer periods of time.
A recent study from medical staff that had received a needle stick from contaminated patients showed Hep B :        300  in 1000   Hep C :        30   in 1000   HIV:            3     in 1000    There is a vaccine against Hep B though not everyone responds to it, and for those people who haven’t been vaccinated or in whom the vaccine doesn’t workthere is an alternative available for a “high-risk exposure. Anyone who has a vaccination for Hep B should go back and make sure they have built up antibodies and not just presume that because they had the jabs they are immune.  

(in reply to sydneypig)
Profile   Post #: 17
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