The Va. Tech Gunman: Well Prepared- Time/CNN"

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Vendaval -> The Va. Tech Gunman: Well Prepared- Time/CNN" (4/17/2007 5:41:04 PM)
"The Va. Tech Gunman: Well Prepared" By John Cloud Tuesday, April 17, 2007 " Cho had recently developed an interest in firearms. According to a Roanoke, Va., news site, a police affidavit says Cho possessed Walther P22 and Glock 9 mm handguns — both expensive, accurate guns favored by gun enthusiasts and cops. One federal source told TIME it appears that as many as "a couple of hundred" rounds were fired during the rampage. Cho's extraordinary killing effectiveness suggests someone who was trained, or who trained himself, in "execution-style" killing, according to the federal source. Cho bought his first gun, the 9 mm, on March 13, a source told ABC. The Walther was purchased just last week. Virginia law prohibits buying more than one handgun in a 30-day period. It appears Cho waited the full month before buying the Walther, suggesting he didn't just snap. According to the Virginia State Police, as an alien with a green card, Cho would have been able to buy guns legally as long as he provided proof of his residence. An affidavit state police filed to search Cho's dorm room (2121 Harper Hall) suggests Cho had been planning mayhem for some time. It says that a note containing a bomb threat was found near his body; the note is similar to two other anonymous bomb threats issued against engineering buildings at the school last week. Cho may have probed the campus emergency response with the previous notes. The affidavit said he is believed to have possessed "multiple guns including but not limited to" the Walther and the Glock. " http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1611169,00.html?cnn=yes (format edit)

Pulpsmack -> RE: The Va. Tech Gunman: Well Prepared- Time/CNN" (4/17/2007 6:01:21 PM)
Ok... a few things: Buying one gun, waiting the required 30 days, and buying the next doesn't really suggest premeditation. It is not uncommon for gun enthusiasts to make multiple purchases in a short period of time. Neither gun is very expensive in the firearms world. A Glock is the "harbor freight" of tools with respect to price. They are sold typically for $550 new. My concealed carry pistol cost more than $2000. The average cost of a gun for carry is about $400-$750, although it's not uncommon to see examples that top $1,000. The Walther pistol doesn't add up to me as premeditation. In fact, it seems to be the opposite. The .22 cartridge can be deadly in a surprise attack (assassinating a diplomat sitting in a restaurant) but once people start running it is a wounding weapon (which is why it is a terrible self-defense weapon). These weapons are particularly useful for training since .22 ammo is the cheapest of all, but I don't see one week being much time for some elaborate plan (maybe if the purchases of the guns were reversed... maybe). If he was planning properly he would have purchased a second Glock 17. Both use the same magazines and ammo so if one should fail/jam, all the ammo he carries will still work in the other gun. Moreover that's two sets of magazines to fumble around with... .22 mags for the Walther, and 9mm mags for the Glock. If he planned this ahead of time, he didn't do it very well with respect to firearms selection (which is terrifying given the amount of deaths involved).

asubmissiveheart -> RE: The Va. Tech Gunman: Well Prepared- Time/CNN" (4/17/2007 6:12:30 PM)
Good observations, the gun laws in VA are fairly lenient. I wonder if there will be any changes in the gun laws.

Pulpsmack -> RE: The Va. Tech Gunman: Well Prepared- Time/CNN" (4/17/2007 6:26:25 PM)
If there was careful planning as the publication(s) suggest, the laws will make no difference. Whatever regulations created will simply be one more variable to overcome with planning.

asubmissiveheart -> RE: The Va. Tech Gunman: Well Prepared- Time/CNN" (4/17/2007 6:36:32 PM)
Agreed, but I bet they start blaming the gun laws in VA, we always need someone to blame.

Vendaval -> RE: The Va. Tech Gunman: Well Prepared- Time/CNN" (4/18/2007 1:58:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pulpsmack Ok... a few things: Buying one gun, waiting the required 30 days, and buying the next doesn't really suggest premeditation. It is not uncommon for gun enthusiasts to make multiple purchases in a short period of time. You are missing the point of the article. The police are trying to find answers in regards the shooter's interest and motivation. Gun enthusiasts are not the subject of the article. Neither gun is very expensive in the firearms world. A Glock is the "harbor freight" of tools with respect to price. They are sold typically for $550 new. My concealed carry pistol cost more than $2000. The average cost of a gun for carry is about $400-$750, although it's not uncommon to see examples that top $1,000. Interesting information, thank you for sharing. The Walther pistol doesn't add up to me as premeditation. In fact, it seems to be the opposite. The .22 cartridge can be deadly in a surprise attack (assassinating a diplomat sitting in a restaurant) but once people start running it is a wounding weapon (which is why it is a terrible self-defense weapon). These weapons are particularly useful for training since .22 ammo is the cheapest of all, but I don't see one week being much time for some elaborate plan (maybe if the purchases of the guns were reversed... maybe). You are viewing this information from your own life experience and education about firearms. His were different from yours. The initial evidence gathering is happening now. More will be forthcoming in the next weeks and months. I am hoping there is more evidence on his hard-drive and other sources of electronic data storage. If he was planning properly he would have purchased a second Glock 17. Both use the same magazines and ammo so if one should fail/jam, all the ammo he carries will still work in the other gun. Moreover that's two sets of magazines to fumble around with... .22 mags for the Walther, and 9mm mags for the Glock. If he planned this ahead of time, he didn't do it very well with respect to firearms selection (which is terrifying given the amount of deaths involved). No one is saying this bloke was smart about what he did. The over-all personality profile that is emerging is of a depressed man who was also very anti-social and filled with rage.

farglebargle -> RE: The Va. Tech Gunman: Well Prepared- Time/CNN" (4/18/2007 5:07:37 AM)
Also: Other Students Totally Unprepared. Get a gun, goto the range, don't be a victim.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: The Va. Tech Gunman: Well Prepared- Time/CNN" (4/18/2007 6:52:54 AM)
If a single teacher or employee had a weapon and was trained, would the outcome have been different? I heard a news report that said even campus police were not allowed firearms. Orion

lostsoulskitten -> RE: The Va. Tech Gunman: Well Prepared- Time/CNN" (4/18/2007 8:20:12 AM)
What gets both my kitten and I on all of this is the second shooting was preventable alltogether. In Texas, high schools colleges and all here if there is a threat int he area, for example a car chase or anything, the schools go to automatic lockdown pretty much. How can you say a shooter fled an area, think it is a totally domestic incident, think he has left the state, and not secure the campus to total lockdown and warn students what is going on. What was he doing for the two hours between the two incidents? If in fact he did chain the doors shut in the engineering building, why didnt someone say something as a sure fire sign trouble was imminent? Surely someone would have been suspicious seeing the doors locked.. It just makes no sense.. The entire second incident should not have even happened.. Virgina tech really did a horrible job in all of this protecting and warning their students and faculty. With the bomb threats, the campus should have had tighter security to begin with. If I were a parent, with kids at that campus, quite frankly I would be yanking them totally out of the school and transfering them to other schools. The college did virtually nothing to secure the safety of the students. I think there will be a lot of lawsuits once all of the dust begins to settle on this horrific event. Besides the fact they should have been all over this kid dating back over 18 months based on his writings for one and his behavior, considering everything on this kid's behavior showed he was a ticking timebomb. It just makes no sense. How can one of the more renouned colleges in the states be so lax on security, espesically post 9/11 and Columbine? The teachers, especially the english teachers saw it coming for over a year based on his writings alone. Chaining the doors, the bom threats to probe security.. all of it points to premeditation. The stalking reports.. The psychological background on this person if the background checks covered things like that would have stopped it cold when he tried to get the first gun.

lostsoulskitten -> RE: The Va. Tech Gunman: Well Prepared- Time/CNN" (4/18/2007 8:22:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf If a single teacher or employee had a weapon and was trained, would the outcome have been different? I heard a news report that said even campus police were not allowed firearms. Orion According to the news, guns were not permitted on campus. But yes, I agree.. Had there been on campus security armed, it may have helped. I know the texas campus close to me has armed security making sweeps routinely every 15 minutes ina ll of their buildings.

farglebargle -> RE: The Va. Tech Gunman: Well Prepared- Time/CNN" (4/18/2007 9:10:13 AM)
It is the individuals RESPONSIBILITY to see to THEIR OWN safety and security. That's WHY we have a 2nd Amendment. Don't expect 911 to save you. 911's a joke. You are on your own.

Vendaval -> RE: The Va. Tech Gunman: Well Prepared- Time/CNN" (4/18/2007 3:00:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lostsoulskitten What gets both my kitten and I on all of this is the second shooting was preventable alltogether. In Texas, high schools colleges and all here if there is a threat int he area, for example a car chase or anything, the schools go to automatic lockdown pretty much. That is the part that bothers me. Why wasn't the school secured if the shooter was still loose? How can you say a shooter fled an area, think it is a totally domestic incident, think he has left the state, and not secure the campus to total lockdown and warn students what is going on. What was he doing for the two hours between the two incidents? If in fact he did chain the doors shut in the engineering building, why didnt someone say something as a sure fire sign trouble was imminent? Surely someone would have been suspicious seeing the doors locked.. It just makes no sense.. The entire second incident should not have even happened.. Virgina tech really did a horrible job in all of this protecting and warning their students and faculty. I am of the same opinion. The whole campus needed to be secured and on lock down until the shooter was brought into custody.

Mercnbeth -> RE: The Va. Tech Gunman: Well Prepared- Time/CNN" (4/18/2007 3:09:54 PM)
quote: That is the part that bothers me. Why wasn't the school secured if the shooter was still loose? The first two people who were killed was a woman and the RA. Soon afterward the girls roommate came back to the dorm. She was asked if her roommate had a boyfriend and if he owned a gun. The roommate told the officers that the roommate did have a boyfriend and in fact he had taken her roommate out to a shooting range on a recent date. It was assumed at that point by the police, that this was a crime of passion. The dead woman's boyfriend was the suspect, and he wasn't on campus. It was the reason that at the original press conference they did not confirm that the two shootings were related. They wanted to find the boyfriend and do the ballistics tests on the weapons recovered from the killer. Hindsight is easy to see the error, but at the time between the first shooting and the massacre, their expectation was based on assuming this was a "standard" murder and did not expect 30 more to follow.

popeye1250 -> RE: The Va. Tech Gunman: Well Prepared- Time/CNN" (4/18/2007 4:24:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle It is the individuals RESPONSIBILITY to see to THEIR OWN safety and security. That's WHY we have a 2nd Amendment. Don't expect 911 to save you. 911's a joke. You are on your own. Fargle, that's true. Michelle Malkin had a good article about that today. http://www.townhall.com/columnists/michellemalkin/2007/04/18/wanted

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