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Who works more: Men or Women? - 4/18/2007 7:54:40 AM

FirmhandKY

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Surprise—men do just as much work as women do.
By Joel Waldfogel
Posted Monday, April 16, 2007

The 24 hours we all have each day can be divided into four broad activities: "market work" that is, work for pay, typically outside the house; "homework," including housework and child care; "tertiary time," including sleep, eating, and other biological necessities that people can do only for themselves; and the time left over, which is leisure. Leisure is not essential to survival, but we like it.

...

In the United States and other rich countries, men average 5.2 hours of market work a day and 2.7 hours of homework each day, while women average 3.4 hours of market work and 4.5 hours of homework per day. Adding these up, men work an average of 7.9 hours per day, while women work an average of—drum roll, please—7.9 hours per day. This is the first major finding of the new study. Whatever you may have heard on The View, when these economists accounted for market work and homework, men and women spent about the same amount of time each day working.

Surprised me. I always bought into the "women work more" thingee.

Well ... maybe it's just the women around me work more than I do?

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RE: Who works more: Men or Women? - 4/18/2007 8:46:12 AM

missturbation

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Well ... maybe it's just the women around me work more than I do?

I think you hit the nail on the head there.
I know some women who do nothing more than shop all day and some men who spend all day having facials etc. Then i know equal partnership houses where they both work full time and share all household chores and rearing UM's. I also know houses where they both work full time and the man does everything at home and where the woman does everything at home.
Each to their own with this one i think

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RE: Who works more: Men or Women? - 4/18/2007 8:53:59 AM

losttreasure

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Well ... maybe it's just the women around me work more than I do?

lol... this, from the man who was up all night working.

It figures that it was men who analyzed the data.

By the way, I consider the study interesting but moot on a personal level. When they lump all women together, working outside the home or not, and divy up the hours as a group, it's pointless. I work 11 hour shifts and do a bit more than 3.4 hours of market work a day. Just because Martha next door doesn't hold a job outside of the home, doesn't make my lot any easier. It's not like she comes over and cleans my house.

I can see employers using this as an excuse to pay women less... "Studies show that women work on average 2 hours less per day... why should I pay you the same as a man?"

lol... yeah, that would fly.

< Message edited by losttreasure -- 4/18/2007 8:55:14 AM >

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RE: Who works more: Men or Women? - 4/18/2007 8:55:12 AM

juliaoceania

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All I know is that when I had a preschool child (especially as a single mom and working one too) going to work was my leisure time... raising little ones is mentally and physically the hardest work I have ever done... and that kind of work is not from sun to sun, it is never done

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RE: Who works more: Men or Women? - 4/18/2007 9:00:14 AM

Mercnbeth

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to this slave, caring for the wee ones wasn't "work"...it was a labor of love and this slave enjoyed it immensely.

this slave also doesn't see a happy, healthy relationship as "work" either---with the right person.

doing the things necessary to make Master's home an enjoyable, pleasant place to spend time isn't "work", either---this slave considers it a priviledge that Master allows her to participate in the "keeping" of His home, a joy and a pleasure.

the government defines "work" as something you are not necessarily paid to do, but something you do not enjoy doing that you do in exchange for something else.

this slave has had many successfull, fulfilling jobs, but has rarely "worked" at any of them.

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RE: Who works more: Men or Women? - 4/18/2007 9:15:29 AM

juliaoceania

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"work" is not a dirty 4 letter word to me, it is something that I actually enjoy and find rewarding. Anything worth doing and having has work attached to it.

edited to add, I have never seen a government definition for work, I prefer dictionary definitions

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 4/18/2007 9:16:29 AM >

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RE: Who works more: Men or Women? - 4/18/2007 9:23:20 AM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

"work" is not a dirty 4 letter word to me, it is something that I actually enjoy and find rewarding. Anything worth doing and having has work attached to it.

LOL I'm quoting you all over the place here. I, too, enjoy work and what I get out of it. And my Master has helped to instill a sense of pride in me about the work I do, not just professionally but personally for myself, and for him as well. He often tells me, "If it was easy, anyone could do it." and reminds me of the joy he gets in seeing me go the extra mile for him, in really putting myself out there and giving forth great effort to please him.

The odd thing is, it is a joy for me to do that, overall. Even through the effort, the sweat, and sometimes tears, I find happiness in doing so and feel greatly fulfilled. So perhaps an argument could be made that since I enjoy it, it's not really work?

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RE: Who works more: Men or Women? - 4/18/2007 9:29:57 AM

juliaoceania

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I dont know, the definition seems to work pretty well with what you stated

1 : activity in which one exerts strength or faculties to do or perform something: a : sustained physical or mental effort to overcome obstacles and achieve an objective or result b : the labor, task, or duty that is one's accustomed means of livelihood c : a specific task, duty, function, or assignment often being a part or phase of some larger activity

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RE: Who works more: Men or Women? - 4/18/2007 9:35:55 AM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

1 : activity in which one exerts strength or faculties to do or perform something: a : sustained physical or mental effort to overcome obstacles and achieve an objective or result

Why is it I want to go to the gym now and work my ass off?!

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RE: Who works more: Men or Women? - 4/18/2007 9:42:50 AM

juliaoceania

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quote:

Why is it I want to go to the gym now and work my ass off?!

Well they do call it "working out"

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RE: Who works more: Men or Women? - 4/18/2007 9:46:44 AM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

"work" is not a dirty 4 letter word to me, it is something that I actually enjoy and find rewarding. Anything worth doing and having has work attached to it.

LOL I'm quoting you all over the place here. I, too, enjoy work and what I get out of it. And my Master has helped to instill a sense of pride in me about the work I do, not just professionally but personally for myself, and for him as well. He often tells me, "If it was easy, anyone could do it." and reminds me of the joy he gets in seeing me go the extra mile for him, in really putting myself out there and giving forth great effort to please him.

The odd thing is, it is a joy for me to do that, overall. Even through the effort, the sweat, and sometimes tears, I find happiness in doing so and feel greatly fulfilled. So perhaps an argument could be made that since I enjoy it, it's not really work?

this slave would agree with that "arguement", ownedgirlie, but since she hasn't a penchant for arguement, could we debate it, instead?

the position that because it brings joy and fulfillment, and therefore isn't considered work is the basis for her perspective on the word as it applies to what the OP was talking about.

this slave would also "argue", that just because some things are easier for some folks to do, either from genetics or training, or because they don't perceive it as "hard" or "difficult", doesn't mean anyone could do it.

the OP included a study that defined "work". this slave merely offered her opinion from her perspective as well as the opinion of our government, according to the rules of the Social Programs it has in place.

this slave wouldn't suggest that either yours or julia's relationships or jobs were dirty, unrewarding, unfulfilling or not worth having, according to your perspective or her perspective of the word "work".

this slave apologizes if that's the impression you got from her response to the OP.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 4/18/2007 9:47:14 AM >

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RE: Who works more: Men or Women? - 4/18/2007 9:50:37 AM

daddysprop247

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Why is it I want to go to the gym now and work my ass off?!

Well they do call it "working out"

you know i've always wondered why they called it that....i get the "work" part...but the "out"?? what are you working "out"?? seems to me it should be called "working off"...since you're working off the stress, and the fat!

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RE: Who works more: Men or Women? - 4/18/2007 9:52:05 AM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

Anything worth doing and having has work attached to it.

No - Anything worth doing either has someone else's value attached to it - commonly referred to as "salary"; or is fulfilling one's nature. The later is an avocation - reference Mother Theresa; the former is a job. Working for someone else doesn't permit you to assign worth of what you do. For that matter working for yourself doesn't either since it's your clients/customers and market conditions who assign your "worth".

You work toward a goal. Having my own business I enjoy ownership, I enjoy managing my employees and appreciate the responsibility I have over my family as well as theirs. I bass decisions considering those pragmatic facts. When I assist a client and put together a deal that benefits both him and my company I have a sense of satisfaction. My home, my style of living is my "reward". All that said, my motivation is a goal of NOT working.

Down the road I may open up a clinic where starting businesses can come to me for advice and counseling and put more hours into it than I do currently in my business but it won't be work because I'm doing it because I want to not for any need.

Regarding the dictionary:

quote:

work /wɜrk/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[wurk] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, adjective, verb, worked or (Archaic except for 35, 37, 40) wrought; working.

–noun

1.
exertion or effort directed to produce or accomplish something; labor; toil.

2.
something on which exertion or labor is expended; a task or undertaking: The students finished their work in class.

3.
productive or operative activity.

4.
employment, as in some form of industry, esp. as a means of earning one's livelihood: to look for work.

5.
one's place of employment: Don't phone him at work.

6.
materials, things, etc., on which one is working or is to work.

7.
the result of exertion, labor, or activity; a deed or performance.

8.
a product of exertion, labor, or activity: musical works.

9.
an engineering structure, as a building or bridge.

10.
a building, wall, trench, or the like, constructed or made as a means of fortification.

You need to get to #3 before any reference is anything other than labor, and many afterward indication the major reference to work is exertion of labor. #4 is the government definition, only concerned with taxable income.

You can find it as "enjoyable and rewarding" as you want. If its something you have to do, for income, self image, or 20 year retirement goal; its work. If caring for UM's is or was perceived as "work" you should avoid having them. Usually you don't get a vacation from that job for at least 18 years and even then you may get called back into full or part-time service.

"Labor of Love" is a nice reference to rationalize doing work that if you had another option you would not do.

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RE: Who works more: Men or Women? - 4/18/2007 10:00:49 AM

juliaoceania

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That is your idea, a subjective one, and not something I agree with nor do I have to.

Personally speaking, I find work intrinsically rewarding, and I do not think of the work I do in my relationships to be denigrating to them in any way shape or form. I see myself as a human being with flaws that I work to overcome, and the people I love have them too... it takes that dirty 4 letter "w" word to overcome these things. It is what makes my life have meaning, it is what makes my existence have substance, it is what life is about...

Now you may want to reduce work to a financial gain or reward, but it is not all about that to other people, and seeing that there are multiple uses for the word work, my definition is as valuable as any other.

Edited to add, it really is rather amusing that people want to attack others about their parenting because they think that it is work and a job, and that they are emotionally honest enough with themselves to acknowledge that life is not like a Cinderella story where birds sing and nary a problem happens.

You know, it truly is not necessary to put other people down to boost yourselves up or your relationship or your parenting skills... all kinds of people can exist in different ways, it really is not a slam on YOU.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 4/18/2007 10:11:40 AM >

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RE: Who works more: Men or Women? - 4/18/2007 10:07:24 AM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Why is it I want to go to the gym now and work my ass off?!

Well they do call it "working out"

you know i've always wondered why they called it that....i get the "work" part...but the "out"?? what are you working "out"?? seems to me it should be called "working off"...since you're working off the stress, and the fat!

maybe because the American Heritage Thesauras's synonymous for "work" begin with :... Physical exertion that is usually difficult and exhausting: drudgery, labor, moil, toil, travail. Informal: sweat.

brother is a trained ballet dancer. he has the feet and the body for it to come easy to him, he sees it as part of his spiritual self, he has danced for joy and in sorrow, in front of audiences and just for himself.

he held classes for awhile and decided he had to stop holding classes for personal reasons, but would still dance at home, as his living room has a mirrored wall and the same flooring as the gym or dance studio and dancing is part of his daily physical health/spiritual devotional/mental health/enjoyably fun activity.

a few of his students begged him not to stop teaching class, they offered to come to his house and pay him to participate in what they refer to as "ballet class" and what he refers to as his daily "working out". plus, they pay him...so, he "works out", "works", "dances" or "connects with the divine", "enjoys his day", etc...all according to one's perspective.

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RE: Who works more: Men or Women? - 4/18/2007 10:10:07 AM

michaelOfGeorgia

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personally, i think women work harder. not only do some have to put in several hours at a job, they have to come home, tend the house, kids, family...and have then they have to deal with men all day...plus...quite a few put in extra time when they have a child...can any man possible survive giving birth to a child...i think not.

LOL

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RE: Who works more: Men or Women? - 4/18/2007 10:22:41 AM

MellowSir

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Women work TOO hard and play too little, more's the pity lol

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RE: Who works more: Men or Women? - 4/18/2007 10:22:56 AM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
That is your idea, a subjective one, and not something I agree with nor do I have to. ...seeing that there are multiple uses for the word work, my definition is as valuable as any other.

My mistake I thought that when you posted your reference, quoted below, to dictionary definitions you meant it.

quote:

edited to add, I have never seen a government definition for work, I prefer dictionary definitions

quote:

Edited to add, it really is rather amusing that people want to attack others about their parenting because they think that it is work and a job, and that they are emotionally honest enough with themselves to acknowledge that life is not like a Cinderella story where birds sing and nary a problem happens.

Attack? In this same post you validate your opinion as equal in value as any other. If you really meant only opinions in agreement have value and are not attacks you should have posted that clearly to avoid feeling "attacked".

I offer no apologies that my life appears as a Cinderella story to you, but YOU brought that perspective I didn't. Perhaps you'd like to hear about the "evil stepmother" period of the story? Currently birds do sing every morning outside my window, sorry for you they don't outside yours and you envy the difference.

quote:

You know, it truly is not necessary to put other people down to boost yourselves up or your relationship or your parenting skills... all kinds of people can exist in different ways, it really is not a slam on YOU

It is not possible to be put down or boosted by relating any aspect of my life. I'm sorry you don't feel the same.

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RE: Who works more: Men or Women? - 4/18/2007 11:02:12 AM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

All I know is that when I had a preschool child (especially as a single mom and working one too) going to work was my leisure time... raising little ones is mentally and physically the hardest work I have ever done... and that kind of work is not from sun to sun, it is never done

That is how I feel, also. There's tons of fantastic things about raising children but nothing can drain me the way it can, too. When I worked outside of home, it didn't *feel* like work, it didn't *take* the same things from me. It took all the easily replenishable stuff and if it wasn't to my liking, I could change it. The choice was there.

I would rather dig a 20 foot long trench than do some light dusting. Both would be *work* to me, but I'd feel great whilst digging and bored stupid while dusting.

Work , to me , can be something I have to do or something I get paid to do, something I love doing or something I detest or something I am compelled to do, for whatever reason.......the level of satisfaction varies, that's all.

agirl

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RE: Who works more: Men or Women? - 4/18/2007 3:13:22 PM

losttreasure

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Fast Reply:

According to the article, both labor for pay and labor in raising children/caring for a home is considered "work"... and it is not qualified or quantified by your enjoyment level in those activities. The article also does not attempt to address the level of difficulties people encounter while engaging in different kinds of work, nor does it indicate the ability of the study participants to categorize how they spend their time based on their own personal perceptions.

I'm sure the gentlemen analyzing the data realized the futility of arguing the details.

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