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Either-Or stances; Black and White Thinking: Does It Ever Bug You?


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Either-Or stances; Black and White Thinking: Does It Ev... - 4/20/2007 1:11:15 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I know that question only seems to bolster the case for it (since I am obviously against this). But sometimes, I guess seeing this does bother me when I read some threads. Not always, and certainly not every poster responds this way, but -

Someone will introduce a topic, and some think this means it is an issue on which "sides" and a "right" or "wrong" answer needs to exist (when there isn't one, at least IMO). I am wondering why people sometimes do this. Is it just human nature? A need to be "right"?
 
*I sometimes think this phenomenon can really inhibit differing opinions from appearing in a thread (if they exist on a topic).


I guess I do it myself sometimes, and of course if I have a strong opinion about something, I do express it, usually.

But it seems to happen on matters where I've seen a consensus in other threads, that there isn't one "twue" answer to the issue in question anyway, or on topics that seem to be matters that are not of exteme (or even moderate), life-altering consequence.

Sometimes, I wonder what ever happened to just saying: "I don't know", or, "Well, there are a couple of ways to look at it...." (and listing them, maybe).

Maybe I am just in an introspective mood. I am not criticizing anyone, and this isn't a response to any particular topic area - I am just wondering about it as a pehmomenon of communication, and what reasons there might be for it, if anybody knows.

Happy week-end, to all.

Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/20/2007 1:51:17 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson
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RE: Either-Or stances and Balck and White Thinking: Doe... - 4/20/2007 1:14:31 PM   
Elorin


Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		Yes, people who view things as ONLY being one way or another and no other choices bug me.
Recent example: Women who take money for domination are fake dommes.
Example from my past: If you don't want to fuck me you are frigid.

It is much more irritating when I stand firmly on neither choice. When it is about things that don't affect me it is irksome but not nearly as much so. Which makes sense, given human nature.

~E

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: Either-Or stances and Balck and White Thinking: Doe... - 4/20/2007 1:17:36 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks very much for the reply.

I have to be somewhere tonight, so I may not be back to this thread until really late tonight, but thought it might be worth posting.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/20/2007 1:18:13 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Either-Or stances; Black and White Thinking: Does I... - 4/20/2007 1:24:33 PM   
TigressFL


Posts: 239
Joined: 6/8/2006
Status: offline 		I tell ya what bothers me much worse than that and that is when someone responds simply to say something to the effective of:
(Well it is different for each person) yet they never state what their personal opinion is. I think to myself.... why the hell did they even post. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that it is "different" for every person lol How many times do we have to repeat something that is common sense lol
It also bothers me when people "assume" that if someone did not word their post carefully to make sure they included some type of disclaimer letting the world know that what they are saying is simply their personal opinion and that they are NOT saying it is the only way... then people get their panties/briefs in a bunch. I think if you are that damn sensitive then perhaps you should not be reading and participating in a forum lol It never fails that someone will just have to step in and “set the person straight” and let them know there is no “one true way” when in reality 9 times out of 10 the person never thought there was and they were simply posting their opinion, nothing more nothing less. It is one thing if someone is flat out saying “literally” that there is ONE way but if they have not then good grief folks stop freaking making assumptions and getting all upset about it lol Just pretend every posts has a disclaimer so you don’t get in a tissy lol
  Ok rant over lol
  Tigress~FL

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RE: Either-Or stances; Black and White Thinking: Does I... - 4/20/2007 1:26:53 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I have one or two issues that I have completely made up my mind about, but if I found that there was no way to other than to admit I was wrong about that I would. When it comes to WIITWD, I do not think I have any set in stone opinions.

I have changed my mind about things I was passionate about. It took maturity, the willingness to look at the other side in order to do so. What I find most often is that if you ask someone to show you why you should change your mind they would rather attack than do that. Perhaps they feel it is a trap laid out for them, perhaps they feel that there is no point, I really do not know.

What I have noticed recently is the willingness of some to go after others because they do not like their posting style, so they ridicule them, or they use information about that person to ridicule them that has nothing to do with the debate at hand. Or they Insult their relationships, going as far as to insult their parenting skills. Or they call names because they get frustrated. There is one poster on the boards that has been indirectly slamming one of my favorite posters on this board (not my Daddy, another person), and the way they are doing it is so nasty and meanspirited I am tempted to react to that... but I haven't as of yet. She is a big girl and can take care of herself...smiles.

I know what you are saying susan.. Perhaps it runs in cycles?

_____________________________

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Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

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RE: Either-Or stances; Black and White Thinking: Does I... - 4/20/2007 1:40:19 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		I have to practice to NOT have either/or thinking. I have to practice to be fluid. A lot of times, I don't do so well...other time, I do better.

Master Fire


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RE: Either-Or stances; Black and White Thinking: Does I... - 4/20/2007 1:44:02 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		TigressFL: People have asked me why I always seem to include IMO in my opinions, and that is the reason (because if you don't, it seems someone inevitably jumps on it, due to assuming you are generalizing). I hear you.

juliaoceania: I know I see that, too. I figure it is a fall-back posiiton for someone who can't really back up their opinion, and being mean generally doesn't work real well on me, either, as a debating tactic. I consider it the refuge of the insecure.

I also don't like it when peoploe start a stream of making fun of a poster, because they've asked what they perceive as a "stupid' Q. Obviously the poster didn't see it as a stupid Q - if they are brand new, it is really probably a real honest Q (even if it seems like whining, and is maybe partly whining), even if it seems silly, IMO.

Master Fire Ma'am: You seem to do okay to me. Thanks for answering.

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/20/2007 2:05:13 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Either-Or stances; Black and White Thinking: Does I... - 4/20/2007 1:45:53 PM   
susie


Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline 		Perhaps it has a lot to do with the fact that most people only tend to post on a subject which they feel strongly about. I read many posts but do not feel moved to make a comment on them. I am more likely to post when something in a thread sparks something in me to respond. Usually that is because the subject is important to me or something in it upsets me enough to respond. 

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RE: Either-Or stances; Black and White Thinking: Does I... - 4/20/2007 1:47:52 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		susie: Good point - I hadn't thought about that, really.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to susie)
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RE: Either-Or stances; Black and White Thinking: Does I... - 4/20/2007 1:55:56 PM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		I think there is a huge difference in having an opinion about something and believing in something passionately.
If you have an opinion and are open enough and interested enough to hear different angles, then that sets for good debate.
If however, it’s something that you feel passionately about then your opinion is already set in stone and there’s absolutely no point bringing it into a debate, because all you are trying to do is convince people and consequently get more and more frustrated when you cant!
I think it’s very much human nature. It happens in all walks of life. Everyone to an extent has an ego because we need ego to have what we consider to be a good opinion and we all have a certain amount of competitiveness in us, but surely that’s a good thing?
I think so long as it stays on topic and does not become personal, like Julia mentioned, then it does nobody any harm.

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RE: Either-Or stances; Black and White Thinking: Does I... - 4/20/2007 1:59:23 PM   
MasterNdorei


Posts: 658
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		i have noticed this too, and sometimes i hesitate to respond because i can not find the words to express my thoughts in a way i think the board will accept without flaming and i am not up to it.

In my everyday life i am running into people who are expressing themselves in a very one dimensional way. The only problem is when they try to enroll me in their thinking, trying to get me to agree.

Sidestepping really is an art.

Master's dorei

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RE: Either-Or stances; Black and White Thinking: Does I... - 4/20/2007 2:00:06 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		MariaB: Great point. For a real eye-opening lesson in just how true that really is, anyone can take a look at the Gun-Control debate now taking place in "Off Topic Discussion", IMO (and it's interesting to read, no matter what one's opinion is, IMO).

But that kind of thinking takes place as often here in the BDSM-related forums, too. I guess I wouldn't have a problem with it, if the person posting seemed to realize that not eveyone has to do things thier way, or said "this is true for me", or something. 

MasterNdorei: I think it's a shame when this phenomena inhibits discussion - and I can't help but think that it has. sometimes.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/20/2007 2:05:41 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to MariaB)
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RE: Either-Or stances; Black and White Thinking: Does I... - 4/20/2007 2:05:38 PM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline 		i'll admit, there are certain very particular things that i have a very much black/white view on. certain aspects of the lifestyle (slavery, submission, etc.) would certainly be included in that. but that doesn't mean that i don't want to hear/read or learn about other perspectives, i often find them fascinating to be honest. but that doesn't chance my own personal black and white view on it. i have noticed that expressing an absolute stance on anything in the lifestyle is generally not well received, especially on boards like this where such a diverse group of lifestylers come together. i can understand it...no one wants to feel like they or their beliefs are not accepted...yet at the same time i think it's sad that we're all expected to take a wishy-washy, completely open "whatever works for you" stance on issues. 


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RE: Either-Or stances; Black and White Thinking: Does I... - 4/20/2007 2:09:15 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		daddysprop: I hear you and I know you're a dedicated slave. I've got no problem with it. I haven't seen you criticize anyone for deciding their own "take" on their own relationship. But - I have seen people jump on you for yours - and I have to say it might pay for people to consider (before they do that kind of thing) if the person they are criticizing is actually advocating whatever their popinion is is  for everyone out there, or simply expressing their own POV).

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/20/2007 2:10:16 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to daddysprop247)
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RE: Either-Or stances; Black and White Thinking: Does I... - 4/20/2007 2:21:08 PM   
WhyteRavenne


Posts: 125
Joined: 9/16/2006
Status: offline 		Black and White... that's an interesting topic, so, naturally, I'm going to comment.. (I'M RIGHT!)

My irksome one is SEX.  I'm a weird hybrid human sub.  I don't care for sex.  Never have... most likely, never will.  Sex isn't EVIL to me, though, but, I can't seem to get it through ANYONES head that I will not, can not, encourage a need for it.  I don't think sex is neccessary in Kink.  It can happen, but, they aren't the same!

I am sure I'm not the only one whose irksome with it.

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Last night, you were, unhinged. You were like some desperate, howling demon. You frightened me.... do it again! - Morticia Addams

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RE: Either-Or stances; Black and White Thinking: Does I... - 4/20/2007 2:24:10 PM   
OedipusRexIt


Posts: 634
Joined: 11/15/2005
Status: offline 		Great topic, Susan.  I hope we all read the posts and think a little more.

It is hard, when one sees something as "obvious", to keep a strident tone out of words on a page.  I'm certainly guilty from time to time. 

While I do enjoy the equal-opportunity expresssion found here, it is not always best to water down an observation or opnion, merely to keep out of the "black or white" trap.

... for example, sometimes I run across statements which might as well read "water isn't really wet"...  Without going all existential, I'm pretty sure it is...

what should one do then?  Seriously, how to continue civil debate in that case?  C'mon... isn't there a "right" answer?

thanks for a fun topic.

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RE: Either-Or stances; Black and White Thinking: Does I... - 4/20/2007 2:26:28 PM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		I had to laugh Susan when you mentioned the ‘Off Topics’ forums because you can cut through some of that pure frustration with a knife.

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RE: Either-Or stances; Black and White Thinking: Does I... - 4/20/2007 2:40:53 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

 Great point. For a real eye-opening lesson in just how true that really is, anyone can take a look at the Gun-Control debate now taking place in "Off Topic Discussion", IMO (and it's interesting to read, no matter what one's opinion is, IMO).


That was something that was going through my mind when I responded to this thread. At this point one particularly militant poster on that thread has called me names, went after me in ways that seem personal to me. It made me feel somewhat targeted because I have noticed this person looking at my profile before the shootings even happened. I guess I pissed in his wheaties or something unbeknownst to me....I think my opinion on that subject is more open minded than many who posted on those threads. I am not totally against guns or anything like some of them are... it just seems odd. The same person is now throwing around the term "anti American", whatever that means.... sighs.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Either-Or stances; Black and White Thinking: Does I... - 4/20/2007 2:41:04 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		Black and white thinking is like a warm fuzzy blanket.

A safe sense of security that the world will work in the same way every single time.

Human beings are habitual creatures. We have patterns and routines. We wake up every day and do the same basic things. Make coffee, brush our teeth, shower. We dont have to wonder what we are going to do tommorrow because we already know.

If killing is absolutely wrong, then to not kill is right. By not killing, then we take comfort in the fact that we are good people.

If stealing is absolutely wrong, then to not steal is right. By not stealing, then we take comfort in the fact that we are good people.

We dont have to question things when we think in terms of absolutes. Black and whites provide a sense of direction and solidarity. Just like my cup of coffee is going to be there every morning.

Sadly though, good people steal and kill all the time. Now I am out of coffee and we all know how adults can get when they dont have their habitual cup of coffee in the morning...

I think people need something to cling on to. This is why religion is so sucessful despite all its many flaws. Without some degree of understanding, we wont have purpose. And without purpose then whats the point of anything?

We want the microwave to work the same way everytime. We want the dryer to dry our clothes the same way everytime. If they didnt, it would throw our lives into chaos.

If we thought in terms of purely grey and there is no solid right or wrong to the world, then it would be like the microwave and dryer constantly changing the way they worked everytime we used them.

I have my own code of black and whites, but I try to allow them to change, grow, and improve as new experiences change my perspectives. Like buying a better microwave when it becomes available. The new microwave still works the same everytime, but is just better than the old microwave.

I hope I am expressing myself well enough that you are understanding what I am getting at.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 4/20/2007 3:09:20 PM >

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RE: Either-Or stances; Black and White Thinking: Does I... - 4/20/2007 3:46:58 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
Susan - you do know you need to be given the title of ' CMs thought provoker' hey on top of those paddles of yours...
 
This is my thought.  Nothing is black and white.  And yet everything is to me.  Make sense?  In other words - grey is everywhere, nothing is exactly black and white unless I am thinking of me.  Otherwise everything is a shade of grey, simply because I cannot answer for other people.  I can give my thoughts for me.  I can give examples of what I would do in my position and situation.   But I am well aware I may be wrong and I am comfortable in that.  But for me, there are black and white options - it just takes Darcy to help guide me to realise which side of the negative I am actually standing.
 
Peace and Rapture


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...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

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