Objectivity (Full Version)

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dawntreader -> Objectivity (4/25/2007 10:09:21 PM)

quote:


Objectivity cannot be equated with mental blankness; rather, objectivity resides in recognizing your preferences and then subjecting them to especially harsh scrutiny — and also in a willingness to revise or abandon your theories when the tests fail (as they usually do).

Stephen Jay Gould
 So, i have been doing some thinking about objectivity. The above quote seemed pertinent to the journeys many of us are on for a compatible counterpart and yet i personally find it difficult being objective in these matters that involve my submissive desires...swept away, if you will.  i would be interested in how both sides of the kneel maintain objectivity while getting to know another, particularly as one opens themselves up more intimately to a potential counterpart -         j



juliaoceania -> RE: Objectivity (4/25/2007 10:16:29 PM)

There is no such thing as objectivity, I do not strive for it, and I am happier as a result



MadameButterfly -> RE: Objectivity (4/25/2007 10:35:06 PM)

I am kind of on the fence with this one.... I was a lil stumped so I looked it up... ths was the defintion...

"expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations <objective art> <an objective history of the war> <an objective judgment> b of a test : limited to choices of fixed alternatives and reducing subjective factors to a minimum"

Now yes I believe that we try to view our world like this... however I do not believe that we are ever truly successful.  Yes we try to view the facts regarding any situation... void of emotion however we are emotional beings... alot of what we do in the lifestyle revolves around varrying emotions...
I need to think on this one more... great brain scratcher though!!!


Madame Butterfly




Sirandlittle1 -> RE: Objectivity (4/25/2007 10:35:36 PM)

I never met a person i could submit to, until i met him. Therefor, i maintained my objectivity entirely.
When i met him, i was not given, nor did i seek objectivity. It was full steam ahead, in bdsm time. Which as we all know, is a altered fluctuating rate of speed. To remain objective, would of taken energy away from 'experiencing' it. It would of prevented us doing all those unsafe, insane deeds that i seriously thought id die without ever having done. Im so glad i was not objective. 
We got very 'involved', very quickly. Neither of us used objectivity a lot.
As a submissive, i delude myself into thinking, that i dont need to be objective when i dont want to. Im free to let go. Weird paradigm i know, but works for me sometimes.

I think objectivity is limited perhaps to, at best, self awareness.
little1



CuriousLord -> RE: Objectivity (4/25/2007 11:08:07 PM)

I'm objective in almost everything I do.  I -must- achomplish so many things.
But, relationships?  These are my vaction from planned worlds.  Sure, I plan things, but it's much less stressful since I don't have a particular need-to-be-here sort of thing going on them.

Hell, I just disowned a nearly-collared slave tonight.  I won't remember her, come morning, or perhaps in ten minutes.  I'm still hurting from a 92.5% I made on a Physics exam yesterday, though.
One's my fault.  One's something I could've done better on, and something I need to do to make it in this life.  The other was never truly my responsbility.



OedipusRexIt -> RE: Objectivity (4/26/2007 12:41:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader

quote:


Objectivity cannot be equated with mental blankness; rather, objectivity resides in recognizing your preferences and then subjecting them to especially harsh scrutiny — and also in a willingness to revise or abandon your theories when the tests fail (as they usually do).

Stephen Jay Gould
 So, i have been doing some thinking about objectivity. The above quote seemed pertinent to the journeys many of us are on for a compatible counterpart and yet i personally find it difficult being objective in these matters that involve my submissive desires...swept away, if you will.  i would be interested in how both sides of the kneel maintain objectivity while getting to know another, particularly as one opens themselves up more intimately to a potential counterpart -         j


The most responsive answer I can give is that I treat all potential partners the way I do any other good human being.

There is no D/S relationship, until both parties enter into it.  Ergo, no benefit in bringing your archetype personality to early acquaintance.



gypsygrl -> RE: Objectivity (4/26/2007 1:18:27 AM)

I don't try to maintain objectivity.

To remain objective would be to take myself out of the picture and look at it as if I weren't involved.  Choosing a partner is very subjective, cause, ya know, like, um, its my partner I'm looking for.



aldompdx -> RE: Objectivity (4/26/2007 1:42:12 AM)

It must be viewed in its dualistic context. The issue is defining the threshhold between objectivity and subjectivity. The objective exists when many people can observe something the same way. Like Carl Jung would describe consensus reality. The subjective exists when each person's experience or perception is uniquely personal. "Chocolate tastes good -- to me," is plainly subjective. "Sugar tastes sweet," is objective to humans, but subjective for all biological matter. Both awareness and ignorance can be objective and subjective.



slaveish -> RE: Objectivity (4/26/2007 5:24:38 AM)

Very interesting, dawn.

I don't know how we can remain objective in relationships. We never know the other's inner dialogue (which is constant and ever-present) and we know precious little other than the fact bites we get as well as our own educated people perceptions. I think relationships are always objective ... perhaps subjective ... simply because we can only be one person at a time and haven't all the information.

We can assume correctly based on body language, facial expression, tone of voice, etc., (i.e. "This person is mad ... or sad ... or happy") and thus choose relative appropriate responses based on these assumptions, but we cannot do the exact right thing for this person 100% of the time. It's forced objectivity, and it happens with everyone on the planet.



LeatherBentOne -> RE: Objectivity (4/26/2007 5:32:02 AM)

My guideline:  If the head and the heart don't agree, it won't work.



thetammyjo -> RE: Objectivity (4/26/2007 6:13:43 AM)

I'll first agree with juliaoceania that being objective is not really possible.

However I do things that I think help me be more objective.

First, I have a process that I follow when getting to know someone. I do not allow myself to deviate from it.

Second, I have a formal training process. While I have some flexiblity in it, again, it is structured and I follow it.

Third, I always ask my current partners (husband, slave, anyone else I'm training) for feedback about the new person. I require that we do things as "family" if things advance during training to see if the trainee could fit.

Fourth, we have a therapist we see about once every two months to help us sort through any issues that arise within the household. Her goal is to help us be the as functional and happy as we can be as a unit and as individuals. She has helped us learn and practice wonderful skills.



dawntreader -> RE: Objectivity (4/26/2007 6:24:52 AM)

Thankyou for all the great responses so far :-)




junecleaver -> RE: Objectivity (4/26/2007 6:31:26 AM)

I never used objectivity in finding a partner.  I think it would be impossible for me to objective in a sitution I was so involved in.



fairerthanshe -> RE: Objectivity (4/26/2007 7:05:07 AM)

Greetings dawn,

Often, it is easier to be objective in regards to another's situation and sometimes she can actually apply that to her own life.  much like that stewardship issue.  she may know what she needs to do in order to be pleasing, but it often takes the warm words of a sister to move her out of the stupor or langour that can become consuming...waiting for that IM bling...

well wishes,

fairer than she



mstrjx -> RE: Objectivity (4/26/2007 7:34:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

To remain objective would be to take myself out of the picture and look at it as if I weren't involved. 



And this is exactly what I see myself doing when it's necessary.

I tend to use my logical faculties to deal with situations, including emotional ones.  And I am able to remove my emotional self from an equation to take a look at the 'thing' under the harsh lights of reality.

For instance, if I see myself trying to get further into a relationship but the potential partner is backing away, 'logic' might have it that one of us is not seeing the 'truth'.  If I look at what is the facts, without getting caught up in the emotions of it all, and realize that it is me that has not been seeing that 'truth', I will be the first to admit to it and back away accordingly. 

If, however, I see that it is the other person who are letting some sort of negative emotions cloud the truth, I will point that out and why.  I would fight for my cause, objectively.  Hopefully I would be able to shed light on things for the other person.

I feel that very few situations in life should allow emotions to run the ship.  It's fun while it lasts (if they're good emotions), but it's easy to stop paying rational attention and find you're miles off course or, worse, run aground.

Jeff



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Objectivity (4/26/2007 7:52:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader
i would be interested in how both sides of the kneel maintain objectivity while getting to know another, particularly as one opens themselves up more intimately to a potential counterpart

Best thing is to force yourself to take it slow.

If you take time, that will give you the perspective you need. 



dawntreader -> RE: Objectivity (4/26/2007 8:07:32 AM)

Again, the replies have been so thought provoking - my appreciation to all~



Dnomyar -> RE: Objectivity (4/26/2007 8:44:57 AM)

Only 92.5%. See what happens when you try to combine play with work. I hope you learned your lesson. As far as the last part of the quote goes "when the test fail(as they usually do)". Sounds like someone has a negative attitude. Why base anything on that.



gypsygrl -> RE: Objectivity (4/26/2007 9:12:21 AM)

quote:

I tend to use my logical faculties to deal with situations, including emotional ones. And I am able to remove my emotional self from an equation to take a look at the 'thing' under the harsh lights of reality.


It seems you're equating 'subjective' with 'emotional' .  I take a very analytic approach to most situations, even emotional ones.  I invest time, energy and committment in pretty much everything I do, but I don't tend to get emotionally involved, and its seriously difficult to be emotional, even when I want to.  But, that's because its the way I'm subjectively constituted.  Just because I remove my "emotional self," to use your phrase, doesn't mean I'm removing my total self from the situation.  



dawntreader -> RE: Objectivity (4/26/2007 10:43:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Only 92.5%. See what happens when you try to combine play with work. I hope you learned your lesson. As far as the last part of the quote goes "when the test fail(as they usually do)". Sounds like someone has a negative attitude. Why base anything on that.


Please elaborate...



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