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RE: Math History.... - 4/28/2007 7:43:20 PM

MistressNoName

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Saratov

I was refering to the quality of the system that passes students who don't meet the standards, lowers standards so that more will be able to pass and fails to adequatly prepare kids for higher education.

And I agree with you that there IS something, lots of somethings wrong with our educational system. Though I was intellectually capable of doing so, I did not meet the standards and therefore did not earn the regular high school diploma I would've liked. No one lowered any standards for me so that I could pass and graduate in the usual sense. And I entered college inadequately prepared.

So, I agree with you that something is wrong. But what is the solution? And do we even clearly understand what the problem(s) is(are)? That's my whole point.

MNN

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RE: Math History.... - 4/29/2007 1:46:43 AM

WilliamWizer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressNoName

So, I agree with you that something is wrong. But what is the solution? And do we even clearly understand what the problem(s) is(are)? That's my whole point.

MNN

the problem is... that we try to make everybody the same. there are people that learn some things better than others and they know since very young what they want to do and that they are good at that. others don't know what do they like or at what they are good.
and the solution is that we need to treat diferently both groups of students.

I know of people that at 10 they already had decided what they want to do to work when they grow and they get bored studying other things so they get poor grades. and people with 30 that they still don't know what they want to do or in what are good but they study a lot (or they cheat) and get good grades in almos anything. do you think the educational system should treat them the same way? who will become a better profesional? one that loves his profesion or one who doesn't care at what works because he doesn't like anything?

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RE: Math History.... - 4/29/2007 9:06:47 AM

MistressNoName

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quote:

I know of people that at 10 they already had decided what they want to do to work when they grow and they get bored studying other things so they get poor grades. and people with 30 that they still don't know what they want to do or in what are good but they study a lot (or they cheat) and get good grades in almos anything. do you think the educational system should treat them the same way?

No, I don't.

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RE: Math History.... - 4/30/2007 4:18:38 AM

kentaro1980

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quote:

could you tell me why I need to know how to draw to become a good software developer? or why I need to know how to make poems to be a surgeon? or why do I need to know how to swim to be a top ten violinist?

I'm going to answer this semi-serious.

drawing skills: There are software developers that have to create the graphical user interface of the product. Having a certain degree of creativity and other talents assorted with drawing skills are certainly beneficial to that task.

writing poems: Training your vocabulary, your ability to speak freely and ultimatively, getting your point across in a discussion.

swimming: Hold your arms like as if you would be playing the violin for....10 minutes. Then tell me again why physical exercise is not needed when playing the violin.

As for the joke...it's funny because there's some truth to it and personally, i had to chuckle :)

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RE: Math History.... - 4/30/2007 4:33:11 AM

johntom571

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquarianMale53

Geez people, lighten up. I reposted something a friend sent me cause I got a chuckle out of it and thought I would share. Do people really have to analyze everything these days? Maybe we should pray for the 50s or 60s to return when people treated each other a bit better..... and took humor for what it is......shakes head.

Well Geez Ass, Aquarian: what did you expect, posting an innocent anecdote in a nest of opinionated, judgemental prima donnas and political correctness pundits?

Keep smiling and remember, the best way not to become one of them is not to take them as seriously as they take themselves.

JohnTom

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RE: Math History.... - 4/30/2007 5:41:08 AM

johntom571

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WilliamWizer

I didn't meet the standards. I don't meet the standards and I coundn't care less about the standards but at my job I have done things that nobody else was able to do. even people that meet that dammed fucking standards.
could you tell me why I need to know how to draw to become a good software developer? or why I need to know how to make poems to be a surgeon? or why do I need to know how to swim to be a top ten violinist?

William:

congratulations of having achieved so much IN SPITE of your apparently failing the wretched standards. You are the exception. As much as you might feel entitled to disdain for "standards", they are there for a reason: I don't want someone who failed at dissecting frogs to be operating on my brain, or someone who couldn't add their way out of a paper bag to help me prepare my tax return.

as far as why you might need (read: benefit from) ancilliary skills aside from the technical required for your job: again, there is a reason, though a more subtle one. Unidimentional work drones tend to be the type easily subverted or committed to antisocial schemes, like pre Civil War physicians who did "research" on venereal disease by infecting black slaves, or the career mercenaries who will kill anyone for a fee, or the Junk Food mogul whose skill at promoting nutritionally suspect fares in unbalanced by the impact on community health, or the back room "chemist" who produces health damaging brews for the local junkie.

At times when my car breaks down on my way to my office job, I wish I had paid more attention in shop class. sometimes, it does pay to be able to swim, when the only floating thing around is a high-prize violin.

JohnTom

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RE: Math History.... - 4/30/2007 10:25:34 AM

pianogirl

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You know - Jeff Foxworthy has a game show about this whole topic - its called "Are you smarter than a 5th Grader?" As a Canadian watching the show I am appalled at the simple questions that foul up the contestants. Nobody should have to guess at an answer to grade 5 math!

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RE: Math History.... - 4/30/2007 10:43:04 AM

WilliamWizer

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THAT was a good joke.

yes I know it's bad to become a unidimensional work drone and that if you truly search you could find that any knowledge is usefull doing whatever thing you are trying to do.

of course I wouldn't want someone that can dissect a frog to operate my brain but I couldn't care less about if he is able to repair your broked car or not.

and yes it may be very useful to be able to swim when the only floating thing is a violin but you don't need to be able to swim fast. if you fall in the midle of the ocean it won't do anything good to you to be able to swim fast because you won't be able to go anywhere. in fact the better idea would be to stay quiet and wait.

but I see your point.

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RE: Math History.... - 4/30/2007 1:41:18 PM

MercTech

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I'm reminded of an incident at Cap'n D's in Norfolk, Virginia.....

After washing the car, I went into the fast food emporium next to the car wash. I ordered an extra large iced tea. On being told it was 93 cents, I counted out the mixture of nickels, pennies, and dimes I had gleaned from the seats in the car. The girl behind the counter picks up the pile of change and grabs one of the other workers, "How much money is this?" Then I noticed the name tag had the appellation of "Assistant Manager". Nuff Said!

Secondary school should give a thorough grounding in the basic skills of all vocations. Yes, you need the math, the science, the language skills, no matter what field you go into. I personally think everyone should know how to cook a meal, clean their clothes, and know enough about their environment to fix minor problems with it. Do you know how your toilet works?

Or, to quote a favorite author....
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, giver orders, cooperate. act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects." R.A.H.

Stefan

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RE: Math History.... - 5/1/2007 1:57:26 AM

WilliamWizer

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oh please... don't compare being able to count (very basic mathematic skill) with the need to solve integrals or even more advanced maths.

from the quote of your favorite author I take you should be able to plan an invasion so should they include chess as a required knowledge on secondary school?

being a profesional of computer programming let me tell you that there's very few that can properly make a program. a lot of people can make one that works now but only a very reduced number of them can make a program that will work in a few months when they need to add new functionality. (that without taking into account that almost nobody makes the needed documentation and coments)

PD: don't take this post too seriously. we are in a humor forum.

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RE: Math History.... - 5/1/2007 2:23:40 AM

Zensee

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quote:

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
-Robert A. Heinlein

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