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What defines a sub? - 4/27/2007 11:38:45 AM

Kitte9

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And I don't mean sub vs. slave. I mean are you a sub if you wish to draw comfort and passion from your partner, is it strictly service to please them, or something more?

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RE: What defines a sub? - 4/27/2007 12:05:34 PM

earthycouple

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Submission for me to me, is a whole package. I can't have someone serve me if I don't like him. I can't collar someone I don't love. I want snuggle time and flogging time, I want movie time and choreboy time, I want foot rub time and oral pleasure time. I want a well rounded, intelligent, thoughtfilled person with goals and dreams and aspirations. I want someone who is funny and articulate, who is capable and can break paradigms. He is honest and trustworthy, willing and simply beautiful. He reads me like an open book half the time and the rest of the time he's dying to know what I'm thinking. He ready for anything at the drop of a hat and loves my family as he loves himself. He is not jello, he is not spineless, he is not a doormat. He is simply beautiful in all that he is...and chooses *quite wisely* to share it with me.

D~

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RE: What defines a sub? - 4/27/2007 12:25:42 PM

MiladyAngelique

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quote:

ORIGINAL: earthycouple

Submission for me to me, is a whole package. I can't have someone serve me if I don't like him. I can't collar someone I don't love. I want snuggle time and flogging time, I want movie time and choreboy time, I want foot rub time and oral pleasure time. I want a well rounded, intelligent, thoughtfilled person with goals and dreams and aspirations. I want someone who is funny and articulate, who is capable and can break paradigms. He is honest and trustworthy, willing and simply beautiful. He reads me like an open book half the time and the rest of the time he's dying to know what I'm thinking. He ready for anything at the drop of a hat and loves my family as he loves himself. He is not jello, he is not spineless, he is not a doormat. He is simply beautiful in all that he is...and chooses *quite wisely* to share it with me.

D~

I second that

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RE: What defines a sub? - 4/27/2007 1:32:52 PM

Kitte9

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Let me say that I am much of that. But I was raised as Marine's daughter and much of that applies to me. I have been told on occasion that I would make a great husband for someone, someday. I guess I am impatient for someday.

For me, and this may be totally wrong:
I want a strong woman who can tell me what she wants
I want a woman who is not afraid to say: no not that, do this.
I want a woman who wishes to show me her vulnerailities and trust me to keep them, because I trust her to keep mine.
I will not sub for someone I do not trust.
For someone I trust I will do all I am able; I do not know what that limit is.
I come from a teacher's family, so I will learn all I can; it is a matter of pride.
For those I learn to trust, there are no boundaries, for those I wish to trust, there are.
Who wishes to be so challenged?

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RE: What defines a sub? - 4/27/2007 3:32:44 PM

thetammyjo

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(My Definition)
To be a sub is someone who bends his will to another, following her lead and following her decisions in all things without voicing an opinion or offering different views.

I do not think this can exist for more than a few hours at a time because I don't personally think it is healthy to be submissive to that degree for longer periods. You can have submissive personality but in order to survive in this world you have to put that on the back burner much of the time. In Ds these qualities need to come to the front.

I'm sure most people will disagree.

I'm not interested in having a sub though so I'm happy with having such a rigid definition for myself.

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RE: What defines a sub? - 4/27/2007 3:41:28 PM

stacydahling

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I'm not sure if this is exactly right or not honestly, so feel free to discuss it, but my first thought was this...

The Domme defines the sub.

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RE: What defines a sub? - 4/27/2007 4:11:59 PM

pollux

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quote:

ORIGINAL: earthycouple

Submission for me to me, is a whole package. I can't have someone serve me if I don't like him. I can't collar someone I don't love. I want snuggle time and flogging time, I want movie time and choreboy time, I want foot rub time and oral pleasure time. I want a well rounded, intelligent, thoughtfilled person with goals and dreams and aspirations. I want someone who is funny and articulate, who is capable and can break paradigms. He is honest and trustworthy, willing and simply beautiful. He reads me like an open book half the time and the rest of the time he's dying to know what I'm thinking. He ready for anything at the drop of a hat and loves my family as he loves himself. He is not jello, he is not spineless, he is not a doormat. He is simply beautiful in all that he is...and chooses *quite wisely* to share it with me.

D~

Terrific post, but it reminds me of something I've posted about here before --

Apart from the kinky play then, what's the difference between the guy you just described and a just generally terrific vanilla partner who isn't self-absorbed?

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RE: What defines a sub? - 4/27/2007 11:48:35 PM

earthycouple

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Pollux,

When one types a sentence and then adds "but" or "however" afterward it simply negates what you just said. "I love you but...." "I like what you said, however...."

So thanks for your response to my post, but it simply didn't sound terribly sincere. *S* see what I mean?

There is a HUGE difference than lacking self absorbtion and submissive. People who are self absorbed are concerned only with themselves. Based on what you said all non subs are self absorbed. I would venture to guess most Dommes would agree with me, that simply because they want a sub and want certain things in life does NOT make them self absorbed and those who are self absorbed are truly not Dominant and probably here for all the wrong reasons.

If you were suggesting I plagarized you....I'd never do such a thing and if you feel otherwise, oh well.

D~

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RE: What defines a sub? - 4/28/2007 12:05:05 AM

pollux

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quote:

ORIGINAL: earthycouple

Pollux,

When one types a sentence and then adds "but" or "however" afterward it simply negates what you just said. "I love you but...." "I like what you said, however...."

So thanks for your response to my post, but it simply didn't sound terribly sincere. *S* see what I mean?

There is a HUGE difference than lacking self absorbtion and submissive. People who are self absorbed are concerned only with themselves. Based on what you said all non subs are self absorbed. I would venture to guess most Dommes would agree with me, that simply because they want a sub and want certain things in life does NOT make them self absorbed and those who are self absorbed are truly not Dominant and probably here for all the wrong reasons.

If you were suggesting I plagarized you....I'd never do such a thing and if you feel otherwise, oh well.

D~

Whoa. Major misunderstandings. Let's back up a step and make a substitution I learned in a logic class a long time ago. This substitution says that "but" is logically equivalent to "and".

So, substituting:

quote:

Terrific post, and it reminds me of something I've posted about here before --

Apart from the kinky play then, what's the difference between the guy you just described and a just generally terrific vanilla partner who isn't self-absorbed?

Next misunderstanding....self-absorbed.

I was referring to the sub, not the Dominant. What I was asking was, if you somehow found a vanilla partner who was not self-absorbed, but was simply attentive to you, and had all the positive traits you described, how would that be different from your ideal "sub"? (apart from any kinky play, that is -- obviously the sub is going to be more up for the kink than the vanilla guy, so let's just remove that from the equation for the sake of argument).

Final misunderstanding...I was not implying you plagiarized. I haven't been active on these boards for months. I wouldn't have expected you to have seen my posts on this.

And as far as your doubts about my sincerity, I can assure you I was quite sincere about your post being terrific, as well as not intending any accusation of plagiarism, and if you feel otherwise, oh well.

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RE: What defines a sub? - 4/28/2007 6:29:51 AM

earthycouple

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Thanks for clearing that up. I stand pat.
D~

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RE: What defines a sub? - 4/28/2007 8:39:55 AM

thetammyjo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux

I was referring to the sub, not the Dominant. What I was asking was, if you somehow found a vanilla partner who was not self-absorbed, but was simply attentive to you, and had all the positive traits you described, how would that be different from your ideal "sub"? (apart from any kinky play, that is -- obviously the sub is going to be more up for the kink than the vanilla guy, so let's just remove that from the equation for the sake of argument).

For me the biggest and most important difference between the guy you describe above and my slave or a submissive in the Ds sense is awareness and mutual agreement.

Both people need to be aware that they are in a Ds relationship and they need to agree on what is and is not appropriate for that relationship.

Most vanilla relationships do not spend time on this level of self or couple awareness. Rarely do they discuss what the roles are or what each person is expected to do -- they just assume things.

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Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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