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"Utah only state to allow guns at college" - 4/28/2007 12:55:23 AM

Vendaval

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"Utah only state to allow guns at college"

"Some students legally pack concealed weapons, others question value"

Updated: 8:01 p.m. PT April 27, 2007

" As states and colleges across the country review their gun policies in light of the tragedy, many in Utah are proud to have the nation's only state law that expressly allows the carrying of concealed weapons at public colleges.

"If government can't protect you, you should have the right to protect yourself," said Republican state Sen. Michael Waddoups.

Utah legislators and law enforcement authorities said they knew of no modern-day shootings at the university. But one lawmaker cited a shooting rampage in Mississippi in 1997 as an example of how allowing others on campus to arm themselves can improve safety: After a teenager shot two students to death at Pearl High School, an assistant principal chased the gunman down outside and held him at bay with a .45-caliber pistol he kept in his truck.

Nationwide, 38 states — including Virginia — ban weapons at schools. Of those, 16 explicitly prohibit weapons on college campuses, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. In other states, each school is allowed to formulate its own policy.

University lost court case
For decades, the University of Utah banned concealed weapons.
"Our view was that there was an increased risk of both accidental and intentional discharge of a firearm if more firearms are present," said spokesman Fred Esplin. "It was a matter of safety."

But in 2004 the Legislature passed a law expressly saying the university is covered by a state law that allows concealed weapons on state property. The university challenged the law, but the Utah Supreme Court upheld it last year.

Utah is easily one of the most conservative states, and the Legislature is dominated by Republicans, many of whom have a libertarian streak. Utah has no motorcycle helmet law, for example, and there is strong affection for the Second Amendment. "

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18355953/

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RE: "Utah only state to allow guns at college" - 4/28/2007 1:16:03 AM

FirmhandKY

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Always did think a lot of Utah.

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RE: "Utah only state to allow guns at college" - 4/28/2007 2:17:43 AM

Sicarius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval
"Our view was that there was an increased risk of both accidental and intentional discharge of a firearm if more firearms are present," said spokesman Fred Esplin. "It was a matter of safety."

I cannot help but to find this rationale mind-boggling at best when compared to the statistics.

16 April 2007 - 32 Innocents killed in Virginia Tech's "Gun Free Zone"
3 January 2007 - 1 Innocent killed in Henry Foss High School's "Gun Free Zone"
2 October 2006 - 5 Innocents killed in West Nickel Mines School's "Gun Free Zone"
29 Septemer 2006 - 1 Innocent killed in Weston High School's "Gun Free Zone"
27 September 2006 - 1 Innocent killed in Platte Canyon High School's "Gun Free Zone"
8 November 2005 - 1 Innocent killed in Campbell County High School's "Gun Free Zone"
21 March 2005 - 9 Innocents killed in Red Lake High School's "Gun Free Zone"
24 September 2003 - 2 Innocents killed in Rocori High School's "Gun Free Zone"
16 January 2002 - 3 Innocents killed in Appalachian School of Law's "Gun Free Zone"
5 March 2001 - 2 Innocents killed in Santana High School's "Gun Free Zone"
28 April 1999 - 1 Innocent killed in W.R. Myers High School's "Gun Free Zone"
20 April 1999 - 13 Innocents killed in Columbine High School's "Gun Free Zone"
21 May 1998 - 2 Innocents killed in Thurston High Shool's "Gun Free Zone"
24 March 1998 - 5 Innocents killed in Westside Middle Shool's "Gun Free Zone"
1 December 1997 - 1 Innocent killed in Heath High School's "Gun Free Zone"
1 October 1997 - 2 Innocents killed in Pearl High School's "Gun Free Zone"
2 February 1996 - 3 Innocents killed in Frontier Junior High's "Gun Free Zone"
15 November 1995 - 2 Innocents killed in Richland High School's "Gun Free Zone"
14 December 1992 - 2 Innocents killed in Simon's Rock College of Bard's "Gun Free Zone"
1 November 1991 - 5 Innocents killed in University of Iowa's "Gun Free Zone"

"Gun Free Zones" were established in 1990 as part of the 1990 Crime Bill, which featured the "Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990." It was passed into law by President George H.W. Bush, a Republican. Three times as many school shootings have occurred in the 17 years since 1990 than the entire 225 years preceding its introduction.

The first act of "school violence" in what would become the United States occurred on 26 July 1764.

Now, for the sake of contrast:

15 May 1974 - 22 Innocents killed by Palestinian terrorists in the Ma'alot School Massacre.

In response to the Ma'alot massacre, Israel began a program which allowed armed citizen guards, teachers, and aids in schools. It would not be until 2002 that another child would die in an Israeli school, when a terrorist with a fully automatic weapon opened fire. Though there was a short list of casualties, citizen guards opened fire and killed the gunman with their concealed handguns, preventing a massacre that might have paled Columbine and Virginia Tech by contrast.

I would like to see an advocate of increased gun control show me the list of massive killings that have taken place in places that are heavily saturated with firearms. How many mass killings have occurred at NRA Conventions? How many mass killings have occurred at Gun Shows? How many mass killings have occurred in police stations? How many mass killings have occurred on military bases? If the density of firearms present at a location should directly correspond to the number of murders occurring at these locations, where is the evidence to support this claim? The above-mentioned locations should be nonstop shooting sprees, and yet the overwhelming majority of mass shootings since the establishment of "Gun Free Zones" have occurred within them.

-Sicarius

< Message edited by Sicarius -- 4/28/2007 2:22:55 AM >

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RE: "Utah only state to allow guns at college" - 4/28/2007 8:59:14 AM

selfbnd411

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The Gun Free School Zones Act does not forbid licensed individuals from posessing firearms on school campuses:

Exceptions:
If the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State...by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act

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RE: "Utah only state to allow guns at college" - 4/28/2007 12:15:53 PM

popeye1250

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I wonder why I never heard of that case in Mississippi?
Damn, those "Gun Free Zones" are dangerous places!

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RE: "Utah only state to allow guns at college" - 4/28/2007 2:11:16 PM

Sicarius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: selfbnd411

The Gun Free School Zones Act does not forbid licensed individuals from posessing firearms on school campuses:

Exceptions:
If the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State...by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act

Why did you not quote the exceptions themselves?

1.) ... not loaded. (Well, that doesn't do us much good.)

2.) ... and in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack which is in a motor vehicle. (If a psychopath is breaking into my classroom, running back to my vehicle doesn't sound overly practical.)

3.) ... by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone. (This means something along the lines of a school marksmanship team. I guess you could call this an "exception," but it seems a far-fetched one to me.)

4.) ... by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual. (So basically, with special permission of the people who don't want them there in the first place. Seems unlikely.)

5.) ... by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity. (The entire basis of this argument thus far has been the ability to put a firearm on a crime scene to resist a perpetrator before the police are able to arrive.)

6.) ... or that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities. (If you physically cannot get to a location where you need to go without crossing school grounds, you may carry it under heavy restriction from point A to point B with explicit permission by the school authorities. Oh, and even then it still cannot be loaded. That doesn't seem overly practical, either.)

- Sicarius

< Message edited by Sicarius -- 4/28/2007 2:16:45 PM >

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RE: "Utah only state to allow guns at college" - 4/28/2007 2:35:15 PM

popeye1250

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If it's a "public" school paid for with TAXPAYER DOLLARS there shouldn't be any "restrictions" on them.

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