Real0ne
Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Griswold
quote:
ORIGINAL: Real0ne
Straight up man you do not know your history.
I know Real...I didn't get my stats off of trustworthy sources such as YouTube or Wikipedia like you...I just read books and such.
You're a much better man than I.
First that was not a cut or a slam. Like many people you apparently have only been intrioduced to one version of history. Obviously the revisionst version and therefore cannot relate to life any other way. History as it is presented, filtered and polished is never what really happened.
kool so cite them then, lets see if yours stand up to scutiny.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Griswold
I am suggesting that a world without monetary controls would quite easily end up much like the world before it; imperfect, but a smidge more imperfect than it is today.
No on is suggesting no monetary controls.
How was the world before it? Since bankers,(by any other name), have been around literally since the beginning of time?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Griswold
Secondarily, I didn't suggest they're out there protecting the best interests of the people.
Yes you did frankly, if the "world" is better off with them.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Griswold
It could easily be argued that their main purpose is to insure adequate money supply such that taxes are paid timely.
Well you said that right! Their real purpose is for collection taxes, and i will add offering unscrupulous governments blank checks on our nickel, worse blank checks on our childrens nickel.
Do cite even one fiat money system throughout history that has not crashed and totally fell on its ass for me.
Next why have we not had a "truly" balanced budget since jefferson? When he killed the fiat banking system?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Griswold
Simply, without the Fed, a system that controls flows and production of money (among other things), we would be subject to systems wherein which (prior to the Fed) we had 17 different forms of money in the United States, some from states, some from individual banks, some from plain old vendors who sold goods and in whose neighborhoods and towns their credit was trusted enough to be considered a bank. Quite a few of these vendors (and states) simply bought more paper and ink, built up their asset base, absconded with the assets and left thousands high and dry.
Since you have made the fed reserve one of your top research projects then you know they are unconstitutional, and a corporation owned by private international bankers.
Therefore you then also know that the fed is NOT a constitutionally authorized "government" agency. This of course is no different than letting bill gates handle the money in the us.
You also know that the treasury dept answers to us, that is "we the people". Through the treasury "we the people" have some control over how our money is being spent. That is the way it was set up that way in the constitution.
Then you also know that the fed reserve answers to "no one" and the fed reserve is accountable to "no one" either we the people or government oversight.
So you support the dismantling of the constitution rather than alternative solution. You also support profits from the interest collected going across the pond to foreigners. You also then support foreigners controlling our ecomony. You also support that profits should be made from the use of "our" money rather than being handled by our own, (nonprofit) treasury dept). you also support the hamiltonian thinking of handling money.(who was once in the employ of jp morgan who has done more to destroy this country than build it).
Thats right and thus the amendment that feds are to coin money, nowhere does it say "private corporation" will be authorized to manage the publics money.
we did not just jump from 13 different coins to the fed reserve as you present it.
You are conveniently skipping over the time periods of the script and greenbacks that worked perfectly. In fact it worked so well that the bankers were cut out of all those free profits and they stayed in the peoples pockets.
What i find very interesting is that you seem to recognize the problems associated with the fiat system when the states were doing but but fail to see the pit falls of that very same system when applied on a federal level.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Griswold
Some of them backed their fiat money with gold, some backed them with IOU's (much like banks today do). Some made their "dollars" out in paper (again, backed by either some valuable asset or IOU), some out of silver, others out of gold...and still others out of tin (yes, really).
Griz are you familiar with the term double-speak? or double-think? and my own little invention, double-do?
Sure we are told that it is backed by gold or silver. We are told it is an IOU. We are told a lot of things by crafty sales people. but what does it mean? Can we, "america collectively" *all* turn our fiat paper in and convert it to gold? NO. In fact there is nothing to turn it for since nixon abolished the standard.
So what is our fiat money backed by now if not gold or silver? Others countries are not going to do business with us on empty promises.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Griswold
Because there was no central control of these "monies" US citizens (and by default, the US Govt. by virtue of their earlier decisions to accept these as payment in kind for taxes or other business dealings with the govt.) often had significantly lower value than that printed on the face of same and the govt. (by way of legislation enlisted by men who ultimately made out very well by being in control of it in the earliest years) opted to have a central control.
You talk like somehow the decisions of today are better? Then why the hell are we still in debt???????
Yes they did dint they? Dont i wish i had a monopoly authorized by the government to usurp every working person in this country. Oh wait its illegal for me to be in a monopoly! i guess the feds are special, only the feds can have a momopoly.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Griswold
Whether or not it's true that the fed effectively causes inflation (and it is), and whether or not it's true that they have by their actions also caused deflation (they have), it is also true that since the Fed has been implementing monetary controls (and yes, this also includes the great depression), when compared to all other instances of financial panics, recessions and depressions prior to the implementation of the federal reserve system...these same recessions and depressions...as awful as they have been and as severe as they became, were significantly softened by federal monetary policy of what is most simply known as "lender of last resort". Trust that had you lived in times prior to same, and there was simply no place to obtain any source of funding, your life was vastly more difficult.
Thats pure bullshit! The people are the lender of last resort!!! Where do you think that money comes from? The printing press? (pun intended) LOL
The constitution is very clear on this and has delegated "we the people" as the lender of last resort, and congress sold us up the river to line their skunk assed pockets.
Thats not say there should be no banks. State banks are perfectly constitutional and lender of last resort for the people of that state. Since when have you ever gotten a loan from the fed reserve?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Griswold
The simplest evidence of that, even with all the talk about the rich getting richer and the poor having no toehold in our society, consider that a family of 7 or 8 in the 1850's were thrilled to have an 800 square foot house...to RENT. Today, with few exceptions, a family of 4 can easily purchase (with exceptions to many parts of California, Manhattan, parts of Florida and my city, Seattle) a 4 bedroom, 2,500 sf home before they reach the age of 30.
Last i heard the housing industry is crashing. All those few exceptions are losing losing their homes in record numbers, to banks of course. People could afford those same homes on one income in 1950 also and now it takes 2 incomes just to stay about water. That same person will pay that house off for th enext 30 years. Housing prices go up with inflation, they didnt magically get cheaper. Where is all this advantage you are talking about?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Griswold
That's because we have some nominal level of faith in the value of our money thanks to a central bank (the Fed), moreover, because of better central monetary controls and planning, banks have a comfort level knowing that if it all goes to hell in a handbasket, the Fed is a "lender of last resort" allowing you and I to borrow money long term. The only folks able to consistently borrow money over a 20 or 30 year period at reasonable rates prior to the Feds creation....were folks that had a last name that rhymed with "Rothschild" or "Rockefeller".
You like the words the "the fed" i prefer the more appropriate words "the corp". If you truly studied economy as you claim then you would have to agree that all fiat money systems in the past have failed and that this one will at some point fail as well. Refer back to my question as to what backs our loans from the fed. Planning? i am sorry but its hard for me to contain myself unless you are referring to the planning it took to infiltrate our legitimate government and the money as an instrument of extortion to the american people.
If jp wanted to lend money then he had the right to do so in this country. there was nothing stopping him. he could compete with the treasury if he wanted to and lend people money directly. This is tunnel visionary thinking. but they did not want compettition so they bribed congress into giving them an instrument of legal extortion. The "corporate mafia".
quote:
ORIGINAL: Griswold
Whether you believe our money has value, or if you have sleepless nights because it'll be worth 3% less or 10% less in 1 year is also immaterial to the argument. Until you stop accepting it as payment for goods and services...you've bought in to the system.
As faulty as it may be...it is by far light years superior to the one that existed prior to the Feds creation.
No no dood, you do not disqualify "the pivotal point" of the arguement. that is the arguement, or one of the major ones anyway. You claim to understand money and the "corp" then you know that inflation is a hidden tax placed upon us that circumvents all oversight! We are down nearly 30% over the last 5ish years. 4 cents on a dollar? or 3 is it now? you want to seel us on how wonderful the fed is fed is when the facts speak for themselves to the contrary. If the fed is that great each dollar would be worth 1 dollar!!!!
How close to zero do we need to get before you say they fucked us?
_____________________________
"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile
Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?
Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!
"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session
|
RE: Will we have a Reccession? - 
Profile
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread