Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Guns, the border, Iraq, and Starship Troopers


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> Guns, the border, Iraq, and Starship Troopers Page: [1] 2 3 4   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Guns, the border, Iraq, and Starship Troopers - 4/29/2007 4:38:32 PM   
PenetratingGaze


Posts: 53
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		Just an idea that I think might solve a plethora of problems- How about, given that the Constitution's call for all able bodied men 18-45 to serve in their States Militias and the 2nd amendment right to keep and bear arms, that the Fed should provide military training to all, AND assault & antitank weapons to every man (and woman) who chooses to serve. This wepons would have their ballistic profiles on record and if used in the commission of a feloney would then be traceable. Our National Guard would then be much larger and I and my brothers/sisters in arms wouldn't have to cycle thru Afganistan and Iraq so often. If people wished they could opt out of this by serving with the border patrol, ICE, DEA, CIA, FBI, etc. Some, if meeting the criteria, could prove their love for their fellow man & country by working for AmeriCorps or Peace Corps. Most Conscientious Objectors and the like though would do better working in the Army Corps of Engineers, Military Police, and MASH units (helping with natural disasters etc). All those who don't wish to serve their country and countrymen then lose the franchise. No Servise=No Vote.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Guns, the border, Iraq, and Starship Troopers - 4/29/2007 4:41:28 PM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline 		That isn't a half bad idea...work some of the kinks out of it, but not a bad idea. 

(in reply to PenetratingGaze)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Guns, the border, Iraq, and Starship Troopers - 4/29/2007 4:57:18 PM   
PenetratingGaze


Posts: 53
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks,lockedaway. Not my original idea-R.A. Heinlein propsed something akin to it first. I'm waiting to hear what Popeye and Meatcleaver say about it. Anyone, wish to help us polish this idea up some?

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Guns, the border, Iraq, and Starship Troopers - 4/29/2007 5:00:53 PM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline 		Oh c'mon, I can almost quote meatcleaver word for word.  The predictability is amazing.

(in reply to PenetratingGaze)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Guns, the border, Iraq, and Starship Troopers - 4/29/2007 5:39:18 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

Oh c'mon, I can almost quote meatcleaver word for word.  The predictability is amazing.


I wouldn't let 18 years olds have weapons unless they were in Iraq, let them see what weapons do and then let them keep their weapons.

Oh I forget. Post traumatic stress disorder creates all sorts of psychological disorders that could prompt mass murders or suicides.

Actually if weapons are to be kept, better people are trained. The Swiss do something similar to this but many Swiss men leave their country between the age of 18 and 40 or use some other scam so they don't run the risk of being killed by morons in the militia who think playing with guns is a fine idea.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Guns, the border, Iraq, and Starship Troopers - 4/29/2007 5:52:31 PM   
PenetratingGaze


Posts: 53
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		Actually, I'm quite aware of the Swiss system. It actually was the one of the inspirations for Heinleins "Starship Troopers." It along with geography, and the banks are what has kept Switzerland free from invasion and able to remain neutral. The Swiss make damn good soldiers, those that run away have had their minds co-opted by spineless, mealy-mouthed appeasers and politically correct liberals.

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Guns, the border, Iraq, and Starship Troopers - 4/29/2007 5:53:10 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		<fast reply>

Intriguing idea, PG, and I think there's a lot to be said for having everyone do some form of national service.

Hope you're not too horrified to hear this from a liberal.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Guns, the border, Iraq, and Starship Troopers - 4/29/2007 6:01:50 PM   
PenetratingGaze


Posts: 53
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		DC, why would I be mortified from hearing this from a lib? One has to work REALLY hard to be wrong 100% of the time. The Germans have compulsary service also, unfortunately it has become really watered down by all the reds and greens over there. I think though that it is a great idea, if we just try and insure that we avoid others mistakes in implementing such an idea.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Guns, the border, Iraq, and Starship Troopers - 4/29/2007 6:05:22 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

One has to work REALLY hard to be wrong 100% of the time.


An amazing number of my neighbors seem to manage it almost effortlessly.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to PenetratingGaze)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Guns, the border, Iraq, and Starship Troopers - 4/29/2007 6:08:47 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		Joking aside, it might be useful to look at what the Brits did during World War II. I think both men and women had to do some form of service. Princess Elizabeth, now the queen, trained to be a driver and mechanic.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Guns, the border, Iraq, and Starship Troopers - 4/29/2007 6:34:03 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

Oh c'mon, I can almost quote meatcleaver word for word.  The predictability is amazing.


Bingo!



(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Guns, the border, Iraq, and Starship Troopers - 4/29/2007 6:56:19 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		 
I agree with this idea, PenetratingGaze, in fact, I posted about it on another thread.  I like Heinlein's idea that service did not necessarily equate to military service.  A pacifist would have something they could do to serve their country and earn the right to be considered a citizen.

If we did this, the cretins who did not serve would be prevented from voting in a cretin who did everything he could to avoid serving / refusing to serve, giving him control of the most powerful military the world has ever seen.

I imagine if AnencephalyBoy had actually served in Vietnam, he would not have been so quick to invade Iraq.

Sinergy



_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Guns, the border, Iraq, and Starship Troopers - 4/29/2007 7:01:22 PM   
PenetratingGaze


Posts: 53
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		Sinergy, Have you read the John Ringo novel "Watch On the Rhine"? It points some of the dangers of letting too many alternatives to government service being allowed. Allow it can go over the top at times-but what the hey it's MilSF, that is to be expected.

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Guns, the border, Iraq, and Starship Troopers - 4/29/2007 7:07:43 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PenetratingGaze

Sinergy, Have you read the John Ringo novel "Watch On the Rhine"? It points some of the dangers of letting too many alternatives to government service being allowed. Allow it can go over the top at times-but what the hey it's MilSF, that is to be expected.


A long time ago.  Lost interest in reading military novels when I was in high school.

I did study Utopian Thought in college, PenetratingGaze.  What generally happens in that genre is the author posits all the positive (or negative) aspects of the utopia/dystopia without really examining the contradictions or negative aspects too deeply. 

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to PenetratingGaze)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Guns, the border, Iraq, and Starship Troopers - 4/29/2007 7:14:17 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Well I'm already retired military but I think it's a good idea.
The Border Patrol could use all the help they can get!
They are thankfull for The Minutemen!

(in reply to PenetratingGaze)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Guns, the border, Iraq, and Starship Troopers - 4/29/2007 7:15:31 PM   
PenetratingGaze


Posts: 53
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy



What generally happens in that genre is the author posits all the positive (or negative) aspects of the utopia/dystopia without really examining the contradictions or negative aspects too deeply. 

Sinergy


True, that is why one has to try to think of as many ramifications as possible to an idea, and seek to ameliorate them. That is what discussion and debate are good for

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Guns, the border, Iraq, and Starship Troopers - 4/29/2007 7:23:46 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PenetratingGaze

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy



What generally happens in that genre is the author posits all the positive (or negative) aspects of the utopia/dystopia without really examining the contradictions or negative aspects too deeply. 

Sinergy


True, that is why one has to try to think of as many ramifications as possible to an idea, and seek to ameliorate them. That is what discussion and debate are good for


Agreed, PenetratingGaze.

There was a draft which LBJ used to take a military into an idiotic war.  Nixon ended the draft and the war in order to be reelected.  The military started gaining people over the next 30 years who were interested in joining up, and the military (as a good way of getting out of a nowhere future) got to the point where they had too many recruits.  This is because the military went mechanized and high tech.  So they started to turn away people.

The military was designed to do the job that Bush Jr. And Bush Sr. used them for in Desert Storm and the invasion.  The military is not doing what it was designed to do in Iraq.  The problem that AnencephalyBoy has is that it is no longer possible to get recruits to stand around and man guardpoints without a draft, so he has to use highly skilled and specifically trained people (like Black Horse division) to do that, taking them away from their (for example) training mission at the National Training Center.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to PenetratingGaze)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Guns, the border, Iraq, and Starship Troopers - 4/29/2007 7:25:11 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		 

On a related note.

Jan 20, 2009.

I am making up my party invitations as we speak.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Guns, the border, Iraq, and Starship Troopers - 4/29/2007 7:30:30 PM   
PenetratingGaze


Posts: 53
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		1st Cav? Are you kidding me? Sorry, we in the 39th Bde don't think too highly of them after having seen them in action in Iraq. Neither did others, the Marines would specifically ask for "those boys from Arkansas" and very pointly refuse help from the 1st Cav

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Guns, the border, Iraq, and Starship Troopers - 4/29/2007 7:35:27 PM   
PenetratingGaze


Posts: 53
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		Popeye, thanks for your service, and you are So right about the Border Patrol and the Minutemen - hmm, Minutemen - States Militias, why is that ringing a bell?? Must be because they are patriots who serve! Imagine that.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2 3 4   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> Guns, the border, Iraq, and Starship Troopers Page: [1] 2 3 4   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.078