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Need help with a flogger handle - 5/2/2007 7:32:28 AM

complaisant2u

Posts: 18
Joined: 3/28/2007
From: near Augusta, GA
Status: offline

I''ve made a couple nice floggers using upholstery leather. I'm using the technique of cutting a square of leather, slicing strips for the falls, and leaving an uncut area of that square of leather at the bottom. I then glue it, roll it up and stick it in a PVC pipe. I find myself limited to the size of that pipe. If my leather is heavier, then I get less falls. I want to use a heavier weight leather with more falls, I have to increase the pipe diameter. I don't want to do that because I think it makes the pipe too big for the average lady's hand.

I've thought about ways make it work. 1) Skive the leather on the uncut "skirt" area so it's thinner and will fit into the pipe. I read those razor blade skivers don't work well and I'm not ready to plunk a $100 for a skive knife and it not fix the problem, and I'm a bit concerned I'll mess up the piece of leather by miscutting 2) Use a larger sized Pipe to hold the leather and use reducer coupling to connect the two different pipes. Lowes did not have that coupling and although I did find it online, it was rather expensive with S&H added in. I'm not sure if doing it this way would make a handle that's too long or if the cemented connections would hold 3) custom make a handle out of fiberglass. I've never done fiberglass work, but it seems pretty promising, especially if I can make the handles pretty, then I wouldn't have to braid covers 4) I just thought of maybe using an aluminum tube and maybe I could find a tube expander line those used for car exhausts to enlarge a portion of the tube.

I'd appreciate any input on how to solve my fitting a big wad of leather into a little tube dilemma. thanks!

Post #: 1

RE: Need help with a flogger handle - 5/2/2007 7:40:38 AM

Elegant

Posts: 1024
Joined: 3/15/2005
Status: offline

Is there a reason you are putting the leather inside the pipe? What type of handle finish do you use?

We wrap ours around the outside and that makes a nice firm base for a turks head knot.

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Elegant
~Slave To Master Archer

http://www.FantasiesInLeather.com

(in reply to complaisant2u)

Post #: 2

RE: Need help with a flogger handle - 5/2/2007 7:56:58 AM

GrizzlyBear

Posts: 278
Joined: 3/26/2004
From: Missoula Montana
Status: offline

Just wrap around the outside of the handle instead, poof! problem solved. Try various sizes of wood dowel for your handle.

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GrizzlyBear

"Come to the edge," he said.
They said, "We are afraid."
"Come to the edge," he said.
They came. He pushed them. And they flew.
~Guillaume Apollinaire

(in reply to complaisant2u)

Post #: 3

RE: Need help with a flogger handle - 5/2/2007 7:58:42 AM

complaisant2u

Posts: 18
Joined: 3/28/2007
From: near Augusta, GA
Status: offline

Hi, thanks for the reply Elegant. I read on a post here a while back that someone did theirs that way. Except for the size limitation, it's super secure which I like. I've drilled a hole through the pipe and leather and used a screw post (like http://www.screwpost.com/) that I got at Lowes. The leather is just not coming out like that. I've learned a couple weaves, but I haven't learned the turks head or related knot yet because I figured they were merely decorative... since they would be they way I've been doing it... and I'm a bit stuck on the mechanical part of the flogger. I've thought about wrapping it around the pipe, but I figured that'd leave a big gap in the middle.

(in reply to Elegant)

Post #: 4

RE: Need help with a flogger handle - 5/2/2007 8:20:51 AM

vield

Posts: 354
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

When I make a flogger with the falls attaching to the inside of the handle, I drill through the handle if it is not aready hollowed, then lay out the 1/2 number of falls I want, twice the length I want the finished product to be. I tie a sturdy cord in the center of the stack of falls, thread it up through the handle and secure it in place. If I am testing a design I tie the cord in a loup below the end of the handle. The loup is handy for hanging the floggers on pegs. If I am satisfied with the flogger I then glue the cord in place through the base, also with a loup hanging down. Then I do any outside finishing or decorating of the handle.

For a flogger with outside falls, I take a piece of the fall material (such as a sheet of leather), and measure out and mark the number and length of falls I want, leaving enough material to wrap around the handle core full length. I cut out the falls.

Then I glue the sheet to the handle and to itself as I wrap it around the handle. Rubber bands can hold things in place. Usually the handle core is wood, so then I secure the leading edge of the wrap with small smooth upholstery tacks. I then add a pattern of tacks to the rest of the handle as I like, sometimes in runic designs or in the form or words, dates or initials. I thread a small ring bolt into the butt of the flogger, paint that and the exposed butt to match or contrast with the falls and handle wrap, and tie a thong in a looup through the eyebolt.

_____________________________

As always, your mileage may vary!

vield

(in reply to complaisant2u)

Post #: 5

RE: Need help with a flogger handle - 5/2/2007 1:30:43 PM

Elegant

Posts: 1024
Joined: 3/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: complaisant2u

Hi, thanks for the reply Elegant. I read on a post here a while back that someone did theirs that way. Except for the size limitation, it's super secure which I like. I've drilled a hole through the pipe and leather and used a screw post (like http://www.screwpost.com/) that I got at Lowes. The leather is just not coming out like that. I've learned a couple weaves, but I haven't learned the turks head or related knot yet because I figured they were merely decorative... since they would be they way I've been doing it... and I'm a bit stuck on the mechanical part of the flogger. I've thought about wrapping it around the pipe, but I figured that'd leave a big gap in the middle.

Interesting. In 11+ years of crafting hundreds and hundreds of floggers Master Archer has never had even one complaint of falls coming off or losening, and he doesn't use a bit of glue.

The turkshead knot at the base and the top of his floggers provide some of the intricate balance and counterbalance of the flogger as well as a secondary anchor for the falls. It's pretty as well. grin

_____________________________

Elegant
~Slave To Master Archer

http://www.FantasiesInLeather.com

(in reply to complaisant2u)

Post #: 6

RE: Need help with a flogger handle - 5/2/2007 3:16:30 PM

PONYSEEKER

Posts: 364
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elegant

Interesting. In 11+ years of crafting hundreds and hundreds of floggers Master Archer has never had even one complaint of falls coming off or losening, and he doesn't use a bit of glue.

The turkshead knot at the base and the top of his floggers provide some of the intricate balance and counterbalance of the flogger as well as a secondary anchor for the falls. It's pretty as well. grin

After reading these posts I decided I would google making a flogger. Believe it or not I have never made a normal flogger or used one other than about fifteen years ago when I worked the docs and we had a truck come in with containers of these huge rubber bands... couldnt help but weave them into a cat o nine tales that were all rubber... it was actually pretty cool but for the most part I have only used crops. I was looking at that knott and I can definatly see the advantage of it an all but is it made from the reminences of the leather that forms around the handle or is it a seperate piece of leather or rope used to secure it? When I looked online all I saw was sites with shitty handles believe it or not...LOL

(in reply to Elegant)

Post #: 7

RE: Need help with a flogger handle - 5/2/2007 4:14:36 PM

EgosumDominus

Posts: 136
Joined: 12/8/2005
Status: offline

Roll up just enough of the falls that are made in a skirt (not cut all the way...leave about 1 inch) and make a plug. Glue helps, but only to hold it in place. Force it in the pvc tube. drill 3 or 4 holes ain the tube (very small) and screw in small tapered head wood screws. Then use the rest of the shirt on the outside of the tube and secure with additional screws the same way.
It is best if you plat the tube prior to all this.
Then build the fore and aft crown for the turks head knots..same size in width and length taking into consideration the final plating will increase the diameter.
Then balance the flogger with lead weights on the inside and use some kind of adhesive to hold them in place. Do not use lead shot...it can rattle.
Make sure and fill the tube up with adhesive to avoid shifting with time.
Keep in mind that the use of adhesive is only a filler, not intended to hold the flogger together.
If you want a loop in the end, now is the time to add it and the leather cap that surrounds it to make it look seemless.
Then plat the crowns.
Makes for a very high quality flogger provided the work is done well, and topgrain leather is used. Suede is a poor choice due to its habbit of picking up oils and filth due to its sponge like surface. Not to mention its the sign of a cheap flogger.
Never use metal pipe, it will rust in time and react with the leather, even with galvez processing. Wood is ok, but only for an exposed handle that shows a really nice grain. And pine or other lighter woods are right out.

I cant take all the credit for this information. NickSLC helped me years ago when I was first starting out in this business. He makes some of the finest floggers on the planet out of Salt Lake City. True works of art.
And a really nice person.

(in reply to PONYSEEKER)

Post #: 8

RE: Need help with a flogger handle - 5/2/2007 7:18:32 PM

ArtificerOfKink

Posts: 63
Joined: 3/23/2007
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

Wrap the leather around something like a dowel instead of wrapping it and sticking it in something.

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Post #: 9

RE: Need help with a flogger handle - 5/2/2007 8:20:26 PM

bigskycountry

Posts: 43
Joined: 4/19/2007
From: montana
Status: offline

Try using EMT tubing. It's a galvanized pipe used for running electrical wiring and has a much larger I.D. (inside diameter), so you'll be able to add more mass. Be sure to ream the end or lay down a wrap of electrical tape over the cut edge. Plus, it's cheap as hell.

(in reply to EgosumDominus)

Post #: 10

RE: Need help with a flogger handle - 5/2/2007 9:48:27 PM

Elegant

Posts: 1024
Joined: 3/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PONYSEEKER
I was looking at that knott and I can definatly see the advantage of it an all but is it made from the reminences of the leather that forms around the handle or is it a seperate piece of leather or rope used to secure it? When I looked online all I saw was sites with shitty handles believe it or not...LOL

Shitty handles on our floggers?

The turksheads are tied onto the handle (over the woven leather) using separate strips of hand cut leather.

_____________________________

Elegant
~Slave To Master Archer

http://www.FantasiesInLeather.com

(in reply to PONYSEEKER)

Post #: 11

RE: Need help with a flogger handle - 5/2/2007 10:12:40 PM

EgosumDominus

Posts: 136
Joined: 12/8/2005
Status: offline

Quite often I feel as though I am wasting my time with these posts. Try to give professional advice to someone that needs help...and low and behold..people with bad advice show up with suggestions I made very clear as to why one should not do that.
But lets get a little further into the reasons for my thought process. Galvanized pipe is toxic. As my early post stated, dont use pipe with the galvez process. It will rust over time.
But I did not say that it is toxic and has been related to cancer, lung desease, birth defects etc. For that I regert.
Welders for the most part will not touch it. Many welders have died from Galvez poisoning...builds up in the system and kills your ass.

And thats the end of science class. Sorry to be so harsh, but its peoples health I am concerned about. Including yours.

(in reply to bigskycountry)

Post #: 12

RE: Need help with a flogger handle - 5/3/2007 9:28:40 AM

PONYSEEKER

Posts: 364
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elegant

Shitty handles on our floggers?

The turksheads are tied onto the handle (over the woven leather) using separate strips of hand cut leather.

LOL sorry about that.. NO, ... I googled sites in general.
Wasnt talking about yours at all otherwise I wouldnt of asked how you did it.....lol
All the sites I have seen on how to make your own floggers were not impresive.

(in reply to Elegant)

Post #: 13

RE: Need help with a flogger handle - 5/3/2007 9:12:42 PM

bigskycountry

Posts: 43
Joined: 4/19/2007
From: montana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EgosumDominus

Quite often I feel as though I am wasting my time with these posts. Try to give professional advice to someone that needs help...and low and behold..people with bad advice show up with suggestions I made very clear as to why one should not do that.
But lets get a little further into the reasons for my thought process. Galvanized pipe is toxic. As my early post stated, dont use pipe with the galvez process. It will rust over time.
But I did not say that it is toxic and has been related to cancer, lung desease, birth defects etc. For that I regert.
Welders for the most part will not touch it. Many welders have died from Galvez poisoning...builds up in the system and kills your ass.

And thats the end of science class. Sorry to be so harsh, but its peoples health I am concerned about. Including yours.

As a welder Myself, I understand the toxicity of galvanized steel, it's also why I pointed out that the material I was recommending is such after your initial post. In this application though, and the frequency in which I, Myself, have to replace gear, the threat of adverse reation or contamination seems minimal.

And in the spirit of this conversation, I'll go on to point out (as a furniture design major whilst in college) that there are many woods that are quite toxic. So, to add to the safety issue, We shall now address that factor in considering gear construction (due to the penchant to use wooden handles as an insertable object). Please stay away from any plywood, most all plywood contains formaldehyde. Blackwood, ebony, and cocobolo can be very toxic. Which kind of sucks, because ebony is such a wonderful and weighty material. Also unfortunate exclusions are teak, wenge (dammit!), and rosewood, which is crappy for this kind of application anyway. Padauk, a rather pretty deep orange wood with great grain and weight/feel (it's almost waxy) is very toxic. I learned this firsthand after a student was using an orbital sander on a piece and the shopmaster flipped on all the dust-collection systems and closed the shop for an hour.
Not to mention that harvesting such woods sometimes contributes to the deforestration of our planet's rainforests.
Keep in mind that even machining these materials is ill advised by any woodworker as the dust is pretty gnarly.

(in reply to EgosumDominus)

Post #: 14

RE: Need help with a flogger handle - 5/3/2007 10:53:22 PM

bigskycountry

Posts: 43
Joined: 4/19/2007
From: montana
Status: offline

(Now I'm just gonna bust yr balls. It's a New York thing. No offense I hope.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EgosumDominus

Then balance the flogger with lead weights...

OR You could use uranium. It's heavier by volume and only slightly more poisonous. Plus! It's easier to get than radium, the only other common heavy metal on that side of the table.

(in reply to EgosumDominus)

Post #: 15

RE: Need help with a flogger handle - 5/4/2007 6:50:32 AM

Elegant

Posts: 1024
Joined: 3/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bigskycountry

(Now I'm just gonna bust yr balls. It's a New York thing. No offense I hope.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EgosumDominus

Then balance the flogger with lead weights...

OR You could use uranium. It's heavier by volume and only slightly more poisonous. Plus! It's easier to get than radium, the only other common heavy metal on that side of the table.

grinning....I was staying away from that one. Way far away.

I enjoy your chemical chat..makes me hot! heehee. Let me know if you need MSDS info on dyes, bootblack supplies and the like. I'm a geek that way.

_____________________________

Elegant
~Slave To Master Archer

http://www.FantasiesInLeather.com

(in reply to bigskycountry)

Post #: 16

RE: Need help with a flogger handle - 5/4/2007 5:40:50 PM

EgosumDominus

Posts: 136
Joined: 12/8/2005
Status: offline

Read the part about the adheasive in the tube with the lead weights.
Its called encapsulation.
Ya I know...big words like elephant and television can be confusing.
But if you look it up, you may learn something..lol.

(in reply to bigskycountry)

Post #: 17

RE: Need help with a flogger handle - 5/4/2007 11:07:52 PM

bigskycountry

Posts: 43
Joined: 4/19/2007
From: montana
Status: offline

Don't make Me get into the toxicity of various adhesives (cured and/or uncured)...

How about We let this go and realize that We have imparted a bunch of considerations one must take into account when devising devices.

Such as: though shalt not make a daily-worn butt plug out of electrical tubing filled with lead coupled to an ebony base glued with a methyl ethyl ketone or methylene chloride and toluene based adhesive!

(in reply to EgosumDominus)

Post #: 18

RE: Need help with a flogger handle - 5/5/2007 12:28:25 AM

EgosumDominus

Posts: 136
Joined: 12/8/2005
Status: offline

I am not sure I want to let it go. At least not given the last post.
You act as if you are in the business of making gear that people use.
I am, and this is how I make a living. I make some of the finest gear in the county.
I know what the fuck I am talking about.

Adhesives are diverse, and you may assume that the kind I use are of a catalyst nature. They are not. Toxic shit is not on my list of items to sell.
And I will not give up trade secrets.

Life is good...but I make it that way.

Griffin Leather And Metal

(in reply to bigskycountry)

Post #: 19

RE: Need help with a flogger handle - 5/6/2007 12:03:06 PM

EgosumDominus

Posts: 136
Joined: 12/8/2005
Status: offline

On second thought...I agree. It should be droped, and I should have accepted the olive branch.
My sub/girlfriend/bestfriend reminded me that I can be to agressive and it is unlike me to not make peace when offered.
For that I am in error.

Feels good to brutaly honest with ones self at times.

(in reply to EgosumDominus)

Post #: 20

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