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Topic: Chattanooga infant dies after being left in swel... - 5/2/2007 4:25:38 PM

His1kitten

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Joined: 4/2/2007
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What are your feelings on this?

http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_106586.asp

A Chattanooga man faces neglect and abuse charges after he left his infant son in his car, where the boy died. Firefighters uses a thermal imaging device Tuesday to record the temperature inside Robert Reid's car at 142 degrees. Police say Reid neglected to drop off his son Timothy at a daycare center and the 15-month-old boy died from the heat inside the closed car.

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RE: Topic: Chattanooga infant dies after being left in ... - 5/2/2007 4:29:39 PM

michaelOfGeorgia

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some people shouldn't have children

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RE: Topic: Chattanooga infant dies after being left in ... - 5/2/2007 4:31:16 PM

GrizzlyBear

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From: Missoula Montana
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Seems like there a couple of these every year. He is being charged with negligent homicide, which is appropriate. Murder requires intent, which I doubt he had. I hope he gets the maximum sentence.

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RE: Topic: Chattanooga infant dies after being left in ... - 5/2/2007 4:32:32 PM

His1kitten

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i might have had an inkling of feeling for this guy, until i read that article. i cannot imagine how it didn't occur to him that the child was IN the vehicle with the alarm going off considering the alarm means there is motion inside the vehicle.

i do agree with you Michael.

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Post #: 4

RE: Topic: Chattanooga infant dies after being left in ... - 5/2/2007 4:36:56 PM

CuriousLord

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A fifteen-month old probably didn't suffer any trauma as it didn't even know what was going on nor yet understood the concept of death. This, coupled with the fact that its biologically unable to sustain itself without a host means it didn't have the right to live and there's no problem here.

At least, that's what pro-choice tells me.
Who are we to decide what people do with their own cars and spawned masses of inarticulate flesh?

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Post #: 5

RE: Topic: Chattanooga infant dies after being left in ... - 5/2/2007 4:37:34 PM

popeye1250

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He was probably on his cell phone.

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RE: Topic: Chattanooga infant dies after being left in ... - 5/2/2007 4:39:58 PM

domiguy

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It is a tough call...recently in the local vacinity a man driving his suv backed up over his two year old daughter who was behind the automobile....There were no charges brought....The devastation was simply enough and it was a mistake.

In the above article it doesn't say whether the act was intentional which I am led to believe that it was not....It is probably the sad case of the child falling asleep and the fathers mind being somewhere else....I personally cannot understand what benefit would be gained from prosecuting a man who is potentially devastated at over the loss of a child....If he is proven to be a good father and this was a tragic "honest" mistake I would hope that he is allowed to return to his family and deal with his and their loss and the guilt that will undoubtedly follow him for the rest of his life.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 5/2/2007 4:40:45 PM >

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RE: Topic: Chattanooga infant dies after being left in ... - 5/2/2007 4:41:52 PM

domiguy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

A fifteen-month old probably didn't suffer any trauma as it didn't even know what was going on nor yet understood the concept of death. This, coupled with the fact that its biologically unable to sustain itself without a host means it didn't have the right to live and there's no problem here.

At least, that's what pro-choice tells me.
Who are we to decide what people do with their own cars and spawned masses of inarticulate flesh?

One of the least thought out posts I have ever seen.

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RE: Topic: Chattanooga infant dies after being left in ... - 5/2/2007 4:45:32 PM

cjenny

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

A fifteen-month old probably didn't suffer any trauma as it didn't even know what was going on nor yet understood the concept of death. This, coupled with the fact that its biologically unable to sustain itself without a host means it didn't have the right to live and there's no problem here.

At least, that's what pro-choice tells me.
Who are we to decide what people do with their own cars and spawned masses of inarticulate flesh?

I can't really pull together a reply to this.. except that I think erm..
That is not pro-choice.

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RE: Topic: Chattanooga infant dies after being left in ... - 5/2/2007 4:48:01 PM

Aileen68

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

A fifteen-month old probably didn't suffer any trauma as it didn't even know what was going on nor yet understood the concept of death. This, coupled with the fact that its biologically unable to sustain itself without a host means it didn't have the right to live and there's no problem here.

At least, that's what pro-choice tells me.
Who are we to decide what people do with their own cars and spawned masses of inarticulate flesh?

I can't really pull together a reply to this.. except that I think erm..
That is not pro-choice.

I do believe he was being sarcastic.

(in reply to cjenny)

Post #: 10

RE: Topic: Chattanooga infant dies after being left in ... - 5/2/2007 4:49:40 PM

LadySeraphina

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From: Calgary, Canada
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I see what you're saying, domiguy, but it is a parent's responsibility NOT to forget when their child is helpless. It's not easy, we are human, but if we choose to have children we bear a heavy burden of responsibility, including not forgetting where they are, and if they are safe.

Negligent homicide sounds reasonable to me, as it certainly doesn't seem like murder.

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RE: Topic: Chattanooga infant dies after being left in ... - 5/2/2007 5:08:28 PM

His1kitten

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Lady, i totally agree. The fact that the motion detector detects motion inside the vehicle sends it home to me. How could that not have been a sign? Those are installed for a reason and this seemed to be a real good one. Sure, he will more than likely think about this for the rest of his life, but he damn well should.

(in reply to LadySeraphina)

Post #: 12

RE: Topic: Chattanooga infant dies after being left in ... - 5/2/2007 5:08:48 PM

CuriousLord

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

A fifteen-month old probably didn't suffer any trauma as it didn't even know what was going on nor yet understood the concept of death. This, coupled with the fact that its biologically unable to sustain itself without a host means it didn't have the right to live and there's no problem here.

At least, that's what pro-choice tells me.
Who are we to decide what people do with their own cars and spawned masses of inarticulate flesh?

I can't really pull together a reply to this.. except that I think erm..
That is not pro-choice.

I'm an engineer. I see little difference in an object's state of being when it's inside of another object, such as a baby in a womb, or when it's on the outside, such as a baby not in a womb.

I'm still lost to the whole morality thing. The value of a human life. Whether or no it is indeed more or less before birth.

It must be stated that I have a very clear understanding of how the human mind works. I am not under the illusion that we are more than chemical processes nor do I believe there is something mystical about the human mind. It's all mundane processes conducted at a high level of complexity. A complexity not absent, hell, perhaps even more pronounced, in the mind of an unborn.

Maybe it is worse to kill a 15-month old toddler than a prebirthed infant. Maybe it's not even as bad. However, I know two things:
-It's on a relatively similar order of magnitude in moral disgustingness.
-Both are done out of convinence. Whether it's not wanting to care for a baby and telling people they got knokced up or if it's to go get groceries.

Ironically enough, I didn't think of posting the first response about abortion. I wasn't looking for a way to get a pro-life sentiment out there. Just, an adult killing a baby in ignorant neglect for the purpose of convinence- abortion was the first thing that came to my mind with an alarming degree of similarity.

(in reply to cjenny)

Post #: 13

RE: Topic: Chattanooga infant dies after being left in ... - 5/2/2007 5:09:10 PM

domiguy

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I understand you sentiment. My concern is that if this guy is a good father and just had a horrible lapse of judgement...You want to take him away from his three other children...Have him imprisoned...Possibly putting the children and his family in economic strife....If this was just a terrible accident I just don't see how anyone including justice benefits from his incarceration. Unless he plans on baking more of his kids....Sorry ...last comment a tad bit "cold".

You know I wouldn't be surprised if other people on this forum have had a moment where a child was momentarily forgotten about...or (laughingly) misplaced for a short time...Usually, and thank God, the end result is usually rather comical and does not reach such a horrible conclusion..

< Message edited by domiguy -- 5/2/2007 5:12:25 PM >

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RE: Topic: Chattanooga infant dies after being left in ... - 5/2/2007 5:15:41 PM

CuriousLord

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Having read through the article, it does sound like a lapse of judgement on this guy's part.

If he's let off the hook, won't other parents think less about the safety of their children, not fearing social retribution as gravely?
On the other hand, we're all human. Our minds forget things now and then. It was a bad thing for him to forget, but it does sound like a sincere case of a mental lapse. It should be investigated further, and they're doing that.

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Post #: 15

RE: Topic: Chattanooga infant dies after being left in ... - 5/2/2007 5:16:52 PM

domiguy

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doh!!!

< Message edited by domiguy -- 5/2/2007 5:18:57 PM >

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RE: Topic: Chattanooga infant dies after being left in ... - 5/2/2007 5:22:24 PM

CuriousLord

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Joined: 4/3/2007
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How is it not out of convience? If it weren't for convinence, a concerned parent would always be thinking of their children, guarding them and protecting them.

You're so condescending, making absolutely no points, and, of two posts, only one counterpoint, which was easily enough dismissed. If you truly hate the idea of connecting the two ideas to the point you're going to be arrogant and judgemental, then this isn't anything but a petty argument for posturing.
I'm not interseted.

I've presented my case. Respect it as such and either provide a counterpoint, a case composed of counterpoints, a different case composed of points, or simply acknowledge that you find my post to be indecent- but do not claim that this also implicates baselessness.

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Post #: 17

RE: Topic: Chattanooga infant dies after being left in ... - 5/2/2007 5:25:39 PM

cjenny

Posts: 1736
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

A fifteen-month old probably didn't suffer any trauma as it didn't even know what was going on nor yet understood the concept of death. This, coupled with the fact that its biologically unable to sustain itself without a host means it didn't have the right to live and there's no problem here.
At least, that's what pro-choice tells me.
Who are we to decide what people do with their own cars and spawned masses of inarticulate flesh?

I can't really pull together a reply to this.. except that I think erm..
That is not pro-choice.

I'm an engineer. I see little difference in an object's state of being when it's inside of another object, such as a baby in a womb, or when it's on the outside, such as a baby not in a womb.

I'm still lost to the whole morality thing. The value of a human life. Whether or no it is indeed more or less before birth.

It must be stated that I have a very clear understanding of how the human mind works. I am not under the illusion that we are more than chemical processes nor do I believe there is something mystical about the human mind. It's all mundane processes conducted at a high level of complexity. A complexity not absent, hell, perhaps even more pronounced, in the mind of an unborn.

Maybe it is worse to kill a 15-month old toddler than a prebirthed infant. Maybe it's not even as bad. However, I know two things:
-It's on a relatively similar order of magnitude in moral disgustingness.
-Both are done out of convinence. Whether it's not wanting to care for a baby and telling people they got knokced up or if it's to go get groceries.

Ironically enough, I didn't think of posting the first response about abortion. I wasn't looking for a way to get a pro-life sentiment out there. Just, an adult killing a baby in ignorant neglect for the purpose of convinence- abortion was the first thing that came to my mind with an alarming degree of similarity.

How you can equate that with abortion is beyond me. What you think you know does not hold true for everyone.

Edit: I'm just going to try and hush.

< Message edited by cjenny -- 5/2/2007 5:28:24 PM >

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RE: Topic: Chattanooga infant dies after being left in ... - 5/2/2007 5:34:52 PM

CuriousLord

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Joined: 4/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny
How you can equate that with abortion is beyond me. What you think you know does not hold true for everyone.

Edit: I'm just going to try and hush.

I'm not actually equating them. I said they're on the same order of magnitude of moral disgustingness. (In other words, they're roughly less than five times different in an analytical scale.) This allows for equality or meaning either way. As it's difficult to put a price on life, before or after birth, I'm not going to claim to be able to equate them.

My argument is cold. In making it, I ignore the emotions of those who may participate and/or observe it. It is logical and it is right. However, it may or may not be pleasant. I am of the opinion one should not participate in such a debate if one is not able to maintain dettachment and composure suiting of such.

This said, it would seem you have strong feelings on the subject. I can appreciate your putting them asside and remaining relatively uninvolved for the sake of avoiding drama despite your emotions.

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RE: Topic: Chattanooga infant dies after being left in ... - 5/2/2007 5:52:06 PM

domiguy

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Joined: 5/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

How is it not out of convience? If it weren't for convinence, a concerned parent would always be thinking of their children, guarding them and protecting them.

You're so condescending, making absolutely no points, and, of two posts, only one counterpoint, which was easily enough dismissed. If you truly hate the idea of connecting the two ideas to the point you're going to be arrogant and judgemental, then this isn't anything but a petty argument for posturing.
I'm not interseted.

I've presented my case. Respect it as such and either provide a counterpoint, a case composed of counterpoints, a different case composed of points, or simply acknowledge that you find my post to be indecent- but do not claim that this also implicates baselessness.

Fine. I will repost. Why I took it down was that you posted this.....

quote:

CuriousLord
"On the other hand, we're all human. Our minds forget things now and then. It was a bad thing for him to forget, but it does sound like a sincere case of a mental lapse. It should be investigated further, and they're doing that."

I thought at that moment you had reached a level of rational thought....But no.

I imagine at many moments that while a woman is pregnant there are times that she could be engrossed in a tv show or talkng to someone or perhaps she might be participating in some other activity such as forced lactation where in "that moment" she has "forgotten" that she is pregnant....And yet somehoe miraculously the "embryo" inside her has not perished.....

Now lets take the two examples above...A guy in a hurry backs out over his kid...Or the child has possibly fallen asleep and a forgetful farther does the unthinkable and leaves the infant in the car....Where is the intent in either one of these actions?

It is often by the grace of God that tragedies are overted....Have you ever drove while intoxicated or perhaps were looking for a cd or out the window or on the phone? It rarely happens, but when we take the littlest of things for granted in that split second a tragedy can occur.

It is awful that the child died and agonized over a period of time in a heated car....But the kids fate was sealed when the father closed the door possibly not realizing that the child was there....No difference then taking your eyes off the road...It sounds like a horrible accident might have taken place. We will have to wait and see.

Yes people use abortion as birth control...There is not a person, that I know of, no matter what side you stand on this isuue that says abortion is a "good thing." Is there a difference between a 15 month old living child and an embryo...yes it is called viability,

Many pregancies start out as being viable but do not come to fruition...By your logic you would question every woman who lost a baby to see if hey were at any way responsible or culpable for the loss of that potential life and then be treated the same as someone who has killed a 15 month old child....

Again, it could be me, but I don't find it to be a very well thought out post.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 5/2/2007 5:57:15 PM >

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