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Need advice: What to do when you give up? - 5/5/2005 2:17:53 PM

runnertx

Posts: 7
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline

I'm not meaning this to be a whine-fest, but what do you do when you finally realize that your needs are never going to be met?

A little background. I've been married for 18 years. For about 16 of those years, my wife has known of my interest in BDSM, particularly in submitting. For years, she said that she was OK with it and was willing to try, but after a few very abortive and mild attempts scattered over those years, she has finally said that she just doesn't have it in her to be dominant, even only on occasion. She comes from an abusive home and has some general issues with sex. BDSM is just too much to even consider. I don't mean to dump on her, as she really has tried over the years to make it work. It just doesn't.

She is not OK with my playing with anyone nonsexually. She tells me that everyone has a trial to overcome in life, and this is mine. Over 18 years, I've tried to put my desires on the shelf, and it doesn't work. It's just part of me, for whatever reason. So, I'm stuck between what I need and what I know is possible. And the last couple of times we have talked about it has ended so badly that I'm beginning to associate BDSM with emotional hurt, which I don't think is good.

This would be easy if I didn't have kids. But I've always heard that staying "for the kids" was a lousy reason to stay. But on the other hand, I don't want my kids to live away from me. I'm at a crossroads, and I don't know what to do. I'm asking for advice because I would guess many here have been in a similar situation.

Thanks in advance.

John

Post #: 1

RE: Need advice: What to do when you give up? - 5/5/2005 2:30:15 PM

MaitresseEden

Posts: 477
Joined: 8/8/2004
From: Houston, Texas
Status: offline

Seriously speaking.. and thank you for sharing such a personal thing. I think you should insist on counseling.. both of you have issues you need to discuss. You can't make an person be dominant who isn't, nor can you forgo your own desires. However it doesn't have to be a zero/some game either. It sounds as if you have many issues that you can't ignore anymore. Her past issues with sex and with abuse must be addressed for her sake and for the sake of the marriage. The trial that needs to be overcome is the inability to communicate and feel safe in being honest about ones feelings. Both of you need to weigh the risks of staying together and the risks of ending the marriage, and make an honest attempt to find some common ground so that both persons needs are met. I don't advocate settling, but nor to I advocate ultimatiums. I do advocate counseling, heavy duty, intensive therapy both as individuals and as a couple. It works wonders!, regardless of if you stay together or not.

Hope my opinions help.

Ms. Eden

_____________________________

"If I didnt define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other peoples fantasies for me and eaten alive. - Audre Lorde"

(in reply to runnertx)

Post #: 2

RE: Need advice: What to do when you give up? - 5/5/2005 2:35:04 PM

runnertx

Posts: 7
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline

Thanks for the advice, MaitresseEden. We have been to counseling (made things worse, believe it or not), and I told her I would be willing to try again. I've never given ultimatums, and it's not like we haven't talked about this. I Think we have both been honest about our feelings and have talked this out until we have nothing left to say. I've thought about just going in myself to see someone. It couldn't hurt.

Thanks again for the kind words.

(in reply to MaitresseEden)

Post #: 3

RE: Need advice: What to do when you give up? - 5/5/2005 2:36:59 PM

liltxsubby

Posts: 328
Joined: 11/18/2004
From: TX
Status: offline

I was in a similiar situation. Mine wasn't complicated by kids and I was married for a much shorter period of time.
Not to be nosey, but are there othere problem areas in your marriage? Does this make life for you unhappy? What would make you more unhappy...staying with your wife and having no BDSM, or having BDSM but not your wife?
In my situation, BDSM was only the tip of the iceburg. I can't tell you what to do, only offer my experiences and opinions. If you cannot be happy without submission and/or there are other areas that can not be overcome, staying in for the kids probably isn't the best idea. If worse came to worse you can always stay near the kids so you can see them often.

_____________________________

I'm Japan and Godzilla has taken over.

Laugh with them, or let them laugh at you.

(in reply to runnertx)

Post #: 4

RE: Need advice: What to do when you give up? - 5/5/2005 2:40:05 PM

MaitresseEden

Posts: 477
Joined: 8/8/2004
From: Houston, Texas
Status: offline

It takes people on the average several counselors before they find one that is a good fit.. So don't be afraid to try again., and yes by all means go see one.. even if it is only you who goes.. Hang in there.

Ms. Eden

_____________________________

"If I didnt define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other peoples fantasies for me and eaten alive. - Audre Lorde"

(in reply to runnertx)

Post #: 5

RE: Need advice: What to do when you give up? - 5/5/2005 2:41:13 PM

runnertx

Posts: 7
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline

liltxsubby,

Thanks for the kindness. That's really the big issue in our marriage. We have been best friends for a long time, but this part of our marriage has caused nothing but hurt feelings on both sides. I always hoped we could find a happy medium, but I don't believe it's ever going to happen.

I don't really know if leaving would make me happier. In some ways, I think it's absurd to leave because I want our sexual relationship to be a certain way; seems kind of selfish. On the other hand, I know how long this has been part of me and how strong a desire it is. I don't know what to do.

(in reply to liltxsubby)

Post #: 6

RE: Need advice: What to do when you give up? - 5/5/2005 3:01:17 PM

caitlyn

Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline

This is probably going to get me completely ripped apart on this board ... lol

Why don't you just hook up with someone just like you ... without anyone knowing.

There must be some nice wife around there that is into her family like you are, but has a hubby that is not so inclined to endulge her fantasies. I'm sure if you are careful you can work out the details to everyone's satisfaction.

Not an easy thing so say, but then again, if you stay with a situation where you are unhappy, and you stay there for someone else ... eventually, you will make that person pay for that unhappiness.

So, what's worse ... staying as things are now. being unhappy and eventually taking it out on your wife and kids ... leaving your wife, and hurting your whole family ... or indulging a little on the side with no strings attached and without anyone knowing?

At what point does this become the lesser of three evils?

When all else fails, you can always fall back on that old saying, "If a cop didn't see it, I didn't do it."

caitlyn

(in reply to runnertx)

Post #: 7

RE: Need advice: What to do when you give up? - 5/5/2005 3:07:01 PM

runnertx

Posts: 7
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline

caitlyn,

I have to admit I've thought of that. Several years ago, I did one session with a domme friend who lives in Tennessee. I figured at the time that I wanted to know if my fantasy was really what I wanted. It was, and we both cried afterward because it was such a great experience. I should add that it was not a sexual encounter. I met someone local here who is just the situation you describe and has offered to get together to meet our mutual needs. I'm not sure that is what I want to do. I wonder if that's justified at all.

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 8

RE: Need advice: What to do when you give up? - 5/5/2005 3:14:17 PM

FelinePersuasion

Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline

No. It's not justified at all.

You took a vow FOR BETTER OR FOR WORSE. To step out on someone who;s clearly not ok with it causes more harm and damage and ill feelings than it solves anything.

(in reply to runnertx)

Post #: 9

RE: Need advice: What to do when you give up? - 5/5/2005 3:17:23 PM

runnertx

Posts: 7
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline

FelinePersuasion,

That's pretty much how I feel about it. I'm not good at sneaking around or being deceptive. I just don't know how much longer I can repress this part of me. It's really just tearing me up.

(in reply to FelinePersuasion)

Post #: 10

RE: Need advice: What to do when you give up? - 5/5/2005 3:22:42 PM

MaitresseEden

Posts: 477
Joined: 8/8/2004
From: Houston, Texas
Status: offline

In my experience.. the ends don't always justify the means. Often times the fantasy of what this lifestyle is like is nothing at all like the reality. In alot of ways it is no different that ordiniary relationships.. just the sex is diffierent. and it some ways it is greatly different. I see alot of men who so as caitlyn advocates, and they all end up dissappointed. At first they are turned on, excited and happy but the reality either hits them that they are in an unfilling marraige, or that they can't have their cake and eat it too.. or worse.. they get caught and see they grass wasn't greener in the dominants pasture.

PLease don't get me wrong, I don't think it is always wise to stick it out and suffer miserably. Perhaps it might help if you can make aquanitances with another dominant couple so that your wife can see the reality isn't as intimidating as it seems, and that it is in her interest to allow you to serve her. Some people go two steps forward and one step back as they grow in thier willingness to explore.

Personally I can Only speak for myself and I believe that marraige is a commitment and there are somethings.. such as this that should be talkes about before saying I Do.. but even if they come up afterwards there is an obligation to attempt to meet a person in the middle. If no common ground can be met I think you have to be willing to allow a person to look outside for it. Take for example. If I amd married to "X" and I am "Y" X needs to play baseball.. it is his love and passion.. I hate to play the sport or even watch it. I can do one of the following..
1. Try to learn what x enjjoyes about it. and find some way of tolerating it on a limited basis.
2. Forbid X from it completely and have him resent me
3. Let X enjoy it on a limited basis without me and take some pleasure in knowing that my partner is happy.

I'd choose #3

MS. Eden

_____________________________

"If I didnt define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other peoples fantasies for me and eaten alive. - Audre Lorde"

(in reply to runnertx)

Post #: 11

RE: Need advice: What to do when you give up? - 5/5/2005 3:25:19 PM

MaitresseEden

Posts: 477
Joined: 8/8/2004
From: Houston, Texas
Status: offline

I don't think it is right to ignore another persons needs within reason, I don't think they should be "Catered too" or happen on thier schedule but I do have a responsibility to my partner and he to me.

Ms. Eden

_____________________________

"If I didnt define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other peoples fantasies for me and eaten alive. - Audre Lorde"

(in reply to MaitresseEden)

Post #: 12

RE: Need advice: What to do when you give up? - 5/5/2005 4:21:25 PM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

Go for Cait's advice. Or take my advice and intimidate the heck out of your wife. Go tomunchs, and play groups.. MEET lots and LOTS of BDSM people, couples ect whatever. Make friends in the BDSM lifestyle. Make TONS of them. Immerse yourself in it. go to clubs, play with ppl there.. ect

Then bring em all home. = ) (warn them first) Start parading them all through your house, torment the wife with your life choices and your "wants" as she's been with you.

And on the flip side do it in a positive manner

So in reality you're "teaching" her

Heck why do something maliciously if you can flip it around and make it helpful = )

Best part is you COULD get away with tormenting her
and when she complains just say.....

"but honey, i just wanted to show you its not all that bad" (and go into all the positive reasons why its beneficial)

(in reply to MaitresseEden)

Post #: 13

RE: Need advice: What to do when you give up? - 5/5/2005 5:31:28 PM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

Greetings runner...

I agree with councilling - but my question would be, the councillor that you went to see that you felt made things worse, were they sympathetic to wiitwd, or not? Try suggesting to your wife another try... this time, with a kink friendly councillor. That way she gets to evaluate both sides.

I would encourage you to ask your wife if she would like to meet some people from the lifestyle. Not all leather and whips kinda meet, but for lunch or dinner... invite them over, maybe go to a munch, make friends, then introduce her to them.

Even make friends with others, help her meet them, then tell her afterwards, when she has let you know how she felt about them and she likes them, that they are into what you do as well.

Buy her some books and ask her to read them. Explain to her how important it is and you want to share it with her.

Don't throw it in her face and 'parade them' in front of her - but show her respect by allowing her the choice. Humiliation only works when all parties involved accept it consensually.

Peace and Love

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to runnertx)

Post #: 14

RE: Need advice: What to do when you give up? - 5/5/2005 5:47:24 PM

proudsub

Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline

This topic has been discussed several times before and one suggestion i remember is to make her your Dominant in your mind even if she doesn't realize it. Treat her like a queen, do chores, wait on her hand and foot, anything to make life better for her. In the bedroom it might help to rent some mild bondage videos and watch them together. That really helped with me and Hubby. Also in the bedroom you can fantacize a lot, pretend you are bound, forced, etc., whatever arouses you. I did that for years before Hubby became my Dom. Is there any chance she would allow you to have an internet Domme? That could also help satisfy your needs. Good luck with it.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan

(in reply to runnertx)

Post #: 15

RE: Need advice: What to do when you give up? - 5/5/2005 6:03:55 PM

FelinePersuasion

Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline

Internet doms are very unfufiling to most. While you do have a dominant none of your actual real life needs are being met in real life.

And most but not all would want someone who could serve them in real life.

The mental domination is a good thing tho lol. Think of normal everyday things as doing it EXACTLY for HER. do you do the dishes to be nice. instead of being nice in your mind make it because your woman shouldn't have to mess up her hands, You're serving her.

(in reply to proudsub)

Post #: 16

RE: Need advice: What to do when you give up? - 5/5/2005 6:58:27 PM

BlkTallFullfig

Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn
Why don't you just hook up with someone just like you ... without anyone knowing.
At what point does this become the lesser of three evils?

When all else fails, you can always fall back on that old saying, "If a cop didn't see it, I didn't do it."
caitlyn[/color]

Caitlin I'm wondering if you're a child of dishonest/cheating parents? If not, how can you know that this option you propose is better for him than honestly dealing with the relationship or ending what doesn't work?

No one should rip you apart just because you propose cheating as a solution to a problem relationship. You're permitted your views/morals just like everyone else, and none of us is your parent/owner to say you should live your life according to our beliefs/morals. M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 17

RE: Need advice: What to do when you give up? - 5/5/2005 7:31:38 PM

Rayne58

Posts: 746
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline

Before He met me Master had several subs over the years who were married women, they weren't getting their needs met from their husbands and so they started looking outside for it - they found Him through an ad He had up on a personals site (I think it was alt.com).

They would come visit Him during the day for play sessions, and though He had to be careful not to leave too many marks and bruises, the general consensus was that they were happier for having that time with Him and it enabled them to stay in their marriages. Master figured if they were offering He was going to take it (He was single at the time). Both He and the ladies got their needs met and no one was the wiser.

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 18

RE: Need advice: What to do when you give up? - 5/5/2005 8:57:21 PM

QnofH3arts

Posts: 35
Joined: 6/19/2004
Status: offline

There is a distinction missing here in all of these posts. John, is it D/s that you feel you need or is it just the BDSM or is it both?

If it's only the BDSM, then please do NOT leave your wife and children for it, do as several have stated and find someone with whom to play, or pay pros to give you what you feel you need.

If it's D/s, then do as several have suggested and just try to change your attitude as to how you do things for your wife, as though you are serving her. I have seen a few posts that offer advice on how to do just that, not just here in this topic, but all over the boards.

If it's both, I do not know what to tell you other than that as a male submissive, the chances you will find someone compatible in this lifestyle are very slim. If you leave your wife for it, you may very well find yourself alone for a very, very long time.

I also recommend counselling. http://www.bannon.com/kap gives a listing of kink aware professionals for most states.

By the way, vanilla marriages can be survived. I did it until my kids were grown and have suffered no long-term ill effects as a result. My children seem to be proof of the theory that children of two unhappy parents adjust better socially and academically than children of one happy parent. And, in fact, when their father and I did separate, they came to us and thanked us for our sacrifice on their behalf. You can't hide unhappiness from them, but one day, they will let you know they appreciated it.

(in reply to Rayne58)

Post #: 19

RE: Need advice: What to do when you give up? - 5/5/2005 9:05:44 PM

BlkTallFullfig

Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl
Go for Cait's advice. Or take my advice and intimidate the heck out of your wife. Go tomunchs, and play groups.. MEET lots and LOTS of BDSM people, couples ect whatever. Make friends in the BDSM lifestyle. Make TONS of them. Immerse yourself in it. go to clubs, play with ppl there.. ect
Then bring em all home. = ) (warn them first) Start parading them all through your house, torment the wife with your life choices and your "wants" as she's been with you.

You're kidding right? I think you're assuming his wife is a nice sweet woman who won't do something painful to him and his guests (I don't mean the erotic kind) if he does that without her consent. M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 20

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