RE: submission and self-esteem

RE: submission and self-esteem (Full Version)

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mistoferin -> RE: submission and self-esteem (5/5/2007 3:17:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aldompdx In its positive manifestation, submission or surrender takes great strength. It is an affirmative choice to share the love that is already in your heart, and release your ego identification that another is the source of your love. "I am wonderful, full of light and love, and I unconditionally share that with one whom I freely give the authority to exercise control." The choice to follow, and follow your heart, requires great self-esteem. You know what you prefer, and you pursue it. In its negative manifestation, submission or surrender can be a mechanism of psychological bargaining. Giving to get is really taking, which is not submitting or surrendering at all. "I am empty and devoid of love, so I am going to sacrifice something in order to get another to fill my heart with love, because I can't see that my heart is already the source of all the love I ever experience." The bargaining "sub" is unconsciously manipulating and exerting subtle control to take the energy of their partner. Co-dependence is an even more extreme manifestation of this. Be healthy in the esteem of your SELF, by first owning the love and fulfillment that has always existed in the only place you have ever felt it -- your own heart. Awesome.

eyesopened -> RE: submission and self-esteem (5/5/2007 3:36:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin quote: ORIGINAL: aldompdx In its positive manifestation, submission or surrender takes great strength. It is an affirmative choice to share the love that is already in your heart, and release your ego identification that another is the source of your love. "I am wonderful, full of light and love, and I unconditionally share that with one whom I freely give the authority to exercise control." The choice to follow, and follow your heart, requires great self-esteem. You know what you prefer, and you pursue it. In its negative manifestation, submission or surrender can be a mechanism of psychological bargaining. Giving to get is really taking, which is not submitting or surrendering at all. "I am empty and devoid of love, so I am going to sacrifice something in order to get another to fill my heart with love, because I can't see that my heart is already the source of all the love I ever experience." The bargaining "sub" is unconsciously manipulating and exerting subtle control to take the energy of their partner. Co-dependence is an even more extreme manifestation of this. Be healthy in the esteem of your SELF, by first owning the love and fulfillment that has always existed in the only place you have ever felt it -- your own heart. Awesome. Totally agree. For me, however, if the Dom uses everyone as a toilet or any other favorite activity, then that would make me feel badly and maybe even a lowering of self-esteem. That He shares such an intimate thing with me, gives of Himself to me, is such an awesome compliment that the very act of surrender fills me, the more i give the more i get, the less i focus on self, the more my self is renewed.

Celeste43 -> RE: submission and self-esteem (5/5/2007 5:38:56 PM)
According to my therapist it is natural for me to have sought out a D/s role because in real life I have heavy responsibilities and being able to put constant responsibility aside and just follow as he leads is a mini vacation to me. Well, until he misplaces his keys and I have to check every pocket, every coat, every surface in the house and cars to find them! Honestly, we don't do piss/shit play so I can't speak to that. But my self esteem is higher in this D/s relationship because he is trustworthy to hand responsibility over to. Meaning that he doesn't see any reason to make me worry about him fucking up, or abusing me to make him feel better. Because I know he has my back, that I'm not alone in the big, bad world anymore, I have become stronger. It's a new thing for me to ask someone else for help and have it given, even rarer for someone to notice I need help and give it whether I ask for it or not. But I liken our relationship to a CEO/executive assistant thing. Jack Welch's former exec asst earned over $150,000 yearly. The fact that she wasn't in charge didn't mean she wasn't important. She was hugely important to managing his day and freeing him to do his work. He spoke openly about how he could not have been as effective as he was without someone that competent in his outer office. The more capable I am in my role, the more powerful he is in his. And there lies the power exchange.

dawntreader -> RE: submission and self-esteem (5/5/2007 5:42:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: minnetar SirDominic and mstrjx how very beautifully written!! minnetar i agree :-)

dawntreader -> RE: submission and self-esteem (5/5/2007 5:43:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aldompdx Be healthy in the esteem of your SELF, by first owning the love and fulfillment that has always existed in the only place you have ever felt it -- your own heart. Beautiful!

LaMspeach -> RE: submission and self-esteem (5/5/2007 5:55:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: switchguy4u Having subbed in 90% of my play, I would say there’s two types of people who sub. 1)Those that are in power in their day to day life and just want to be able to be treated like crap sometimes 2)Those with very low self worth that feel they deserve to be treated like this I know it generalizing, and maybe you would have shades of grey here and there. But still, I would say that assessment is fairly accurate. I don't agree with this at all ... For me it isn't about " wanting to be treated like crap once is a while" or " very low self worth" For me (and most of the submissive/slaves i know) it is about having the strength and courage to know what you want and working towards that goal. It is about consciously making the decision to give control to another . Edit to add ... I agree with Madamebutterly she said it better then I could. I should have read all the post first.

MissOchistic -> RE: submission and self-esteem (5/5/2007 6:45:54 PM)
i find that my serving is exactly what gives me my self esteem. Never do i feel more worth the air i'm breathing than when i make Him happy. Even when i feel frustrated, hurt, or lonely...i still feel accomplished. And what's better, i finally feel that those emotions are not for nothing. They have great purpose, and knowing this makes them enjoyable. When i am a slave i am a Queen, and when i am feeling pain i am elated. What a good life when a simple "Good kitty" or scratch on the ears is all you need!

Kitte9 -> RE: submission and self-esteem (5/5/2007 7:14:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aristogeiton I have two minds about this. And that is a frightening thought. ; )

switchguy4u -> RE: submission and self-esteem (5/5/2007 7:31:58 PM)
quote: I don't agree with this at all ... For me it isn't about " wanting to be treated like crap once is a while" or " very low self worth" For me (and most of the submissive/slaves i know) it is about having the strength and courage to know what you want and working towards that goal. It is about consciously making the decision to give control to another . Edit to add ... I agree with Madamebutterly she said it better then I could. I should have read all the post first. Well, one may not consciously know the reasons behind things. But act upon their impulses anyway. Or maybe we just sub or Dom/me because we're all insane and whacked [:D] By the way, if you go to BR this month feel free to tell me hi cause I'll probably be there with my Domme.

sireninchains -> RE: submission and self-esteem (5/5/2007 7:46:06 PM)
I have, in the past had self esteem issues. Whilst going through those issues I never could have been the submissive I am now. I say this because to allow myself to submit to another, I must be absolutely secure in what I am doing, be secure in myself, and be secure in how that other person sees me. It sounds like alot, but if i feel faltering, then I dont feel safe, and then the scene just goes to shit. Fear is one thing, safety is another altogether. For me, safety and security in myself run hand in hand. I personally must be secure and have have self esteem before I begin to have security and trust in another. I know I am not so unique as to be the only one to have these feelings, not to say it is universal either, I am sure that there are people out there who just feel like they're shitty humans and want to get abused. And yes, in my mind, thats what it is at that point, abuse. -sireninchains-

AquaticSub -> RE: submission and self-esteem (5/5/2007 11:50:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aristogeiton I have two minds about this. On the one hand, I don't feel that there's any shame to acting out the role that nature, or early experiences, or psychology, has given to me. There is no denying that at the feet of a dominant is where I feel most at home, where I belong. But if I do feel that that's where I belong, what does that say about my own self-esteem? If dom and sub are equal in dignity, if not in stature within the relationship, why is the sub the human toilet? Is the only way to enjoy BDSM to acknowledge my own lack of self-respect and revel in it? I would say that it doesn't say anything about your self-esteem. I think I'm pretty fucking awesome. I'm a good listener, I love unconditionally, I'm there for my friends and loved ones whenever they need me, I give to charity, I'm a shoulder to lean on and someone to party with. I may be curvy, but I'm hot, a great lay and I give damn good head if I do say so myself. I'm not perfect, I've got my flaws but I'm a good person and I try to please my dominant at all times. Love yourself for who you are, including your submission. It's a beautiful thing and there are plenty of loving, caring dominants and owners who feel the same way. By the way, the reason that if we are equal the sub the is human toliet is because the sub likes providing that service. I view my submission as being both the most unselfish and most self-serving things I can do. I take a great personal joy in my service to him, even if it's doing things I don't like. I'm getting my wants and needs filled. It would be far less self-serving for me to try to be a domme for a male sub. But I would suck at it. A lot.

mistoferin -> RE: submission and self-esteem (5/5/2007 11:59:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: switchguy4u Having subbed in 90% of my play, I would say there’s two types of people who sub. 1)Those that are in power in their day to day life and just want to be able to be treated like crap sometimes 2)Those with very low self worth that feel they deserve to be treated like this I know it generalizing, and maybe you would have shades of grey here and there. But still, I would say that assessment is fairly accurate. It would seem that your post implies that you feel that Dominating someone is equal to treating them like crap and submitting equals taking crap. Am I understanding correctly?

needDomme -> RE: submission and self-esteem (5/6/2007 12:00:27 AM)
I agree, it's not a self esteem issue at all. In my opinion, we're wired the way we are and there's nothing wrong with it. What's important is that we do what makes us feel the best. If it's to serve another, then fine. need

farieanne -> RE: submission and self-esteem (5/6/2007 3:22:59 AM)
i would like to start by stating that this is my opinion and only my opinion. i believe many many people have self esteem issues and i am among them. i am very confident in my ability to run my life and make sound decisions.Where i lack self esteem is in my womanhood and femininity.Never in my life have i ever felt more beautiful, womanly, and feminin than i have since submitting to and being collard by my Master. So if anything my submission has increased my self esteem. Just my opinion. Master Peter's "A woman will always sacrifice herself if you give her the opportunity. It is her favourite form of self-indulgence.” - William Somerset Maugham

amayos -> RE: Submission and self-esteem (5/6/2007 7:21:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aristogeiton I have two minds about this. On the one hand, I don't feel that there's any shame to acting out the role that nature, or early experiences, or psychology, has given to me. There is no denying that at the feet of a dominant is where I feel most at home, where I belong. But if I do feel that that's where I belong, what does that say about my own self-esteem? If dom and sub are equal in dignity, if not in stature within the relationship, why is the sub the human toilet? Is the only way to enjoy BDSM to acknowledge my own lack of self-respect and revel in it? Succoring self-esteem is so often a form of thralldom in itself to some celestial scoreboard in the mind. In my experience, those who can empty their cup entirely and derive self-worth from slavery and the ability to please are rare and desired birds; there should be no shame in having that quality, despite popular wisdom waving its finger at the very notion. Be what you are. To use your word, revel in it.

SirDominic -> RE: submission and self-esteem (5/6/2007 7:53:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissOchistic i find that my serving is exactly what gives me my self esteem. Hi, When something outside of yourself "gives" you self esteem, it is not real. I'm not picking on you, or dismissing what you are feeling. You can feel good about yourself when someone else is making you feel that way, but it is an external source. As long as your self esteem is external instead of internal, you really don't have it. One of the greatest lessons in life is that no-one can give you self esteem. To truly have it, it has to come from within you. Namaste, Sir Dominic

SirDominic -> RE: submission and self-esteem (5/6/2007 8:05:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aldompdx In its positive manifestation, submission or surrender takes great strength. It is an affirmative choice to share the love that is already in your heart, and release your ego identification that another is the source of your love. "I am wonderful, full of light and love, and I unconditionally share that with one whom I freely give the authority to exercise control." The choice to follow, and follow your heart, requires great self-esteem. You know what you prefer, and you pursue it. In its negative manifestation, submission or surrender can be a mechanism of psychological bargaining. Giving to get is really taking, which is not submitting or surrendering at all. "I am empty and devoid of love, so I am going to sacrifice something in order to get another to fill my heart with love, because I can't see that my heart is already the source of all the love I ever experience." The bargaining "sub" is unconsciously manipulating and exerting subtle control to take the energy of their partner. Co-dependence is an even more extreme manifestation of this. Be healthy in the esteem of your SELF, by first owning the love and fulfillment that has always existed in the only place you have ever felt it -- your own heart. Excellent post, aldompdx, and worth reposting. Namaste, Sir Dominic

MistressDolly -> RE: submission and self-esteem (5/6/2007 9:02:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aristogeiton I have two minds about this. On the one hand, I don't feel that there's any shame to acting out the role that nature, or early experiences, or psychology, has given to me. There is no denying that at the feet of a dominant is where I feel most at home, where I belong. But if I do feel that that's where I belong, what does that say about my own self-esteem? If dom and sub are equal in dignity, if not in stature within the relationship, why is the sub the human toilet? Is the only way to enjoy BDSM to acknowledge my own lack of self-respect and revel in it? Deriving self-worth thru the gift of submission is indeed an arcane concept to grasp for most... yet, not so for the rare submissive who is himself acutely cognizant of the fact that submission is a gift that keeps giving back -- to him. It's a beautiful, harmonious and balanced closeness. Revel in it. :)

daddysliloneds -> RE: submission and self-esteem (5/6/2007 9:31:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aristogeiton <snip>There is no denying that at the feet of a dominant is where I feel most at home, where I belong. But if I do feel that that's where I belong, what does that say about my own self-esteem? i don't know what it says about your self-esteem, though i do know what it says about mine; it says that i'm confident, secure, and accepting enough of myself to feel at home in a mirad of situations and places. quote: If dom and sub are equal in dignity, if not in stature within the relationship, why is the sub the human toilet? Is the only way to enjoy BDSM to acknowledge my own lack of self-respect and revel in it? some choose to feel like and/or be the human toilet because it trips their trigger or because they feel like it's what they deserve, or all they're worth. as for me, not once, have i ever felt like/been treated as or been the human toilet, so i guess if you perceive yourself as one or feel that is all you're good for, worth, etc., then that's all you're ever going to be/feel... i lack no self-respect so bdsm is enjoyable to me because i feel more powerful in knowing that i have the insight, strength, knowledge and comfort in my own skin to yield to/defer/bottom/submit to another.

ICGsteve -> RE: submission and self-esteem (5/6/2007 9:33:43 AM)
Self esteem does not magically rise off of the self. It is generated by success in doing things that are not easy. If a sub does not find it always easy to be a sub, if being submissive is a challenge to them, then a long term relationship where they continually dig deeper into their submissiveness and get something out of it will be a self esteem raising experience. There are many dons who want no part of a low self esteem sub, and I can understand why. It is an extra burden on any relationship, and so in the case of a power exchange relationship on the dom. A sub being low self esteem also adds to the risk to the dom, the risk that the sub will at some point decide that the relationship has been abusive. Some people thrive on risk and challenge which I get, but hopefully eyes are wide open.

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