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RE: submission and self-esteem - 5/5/2007 3:17:10 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aldompdx

In its positive manifestation, submission or surrender takes great strength. It is an affirmative choice to share the love that is already in your heart, and release your ego identification that another is the source of your love. "I am wonderful, full of light and love, and I unconditionally share that with one whom I freely give the authority to exercise control." The choice to follow, and follow your heart, requires great self-esteem. You know what you prefer, and you pursue it.

In its negative manifestation, submission or surrender can be a mechanism of psychological bargaining. Giving to get is really taking, which is not submitting or surrendering at all. "I am empty and devoid of love, so I am going to sacrifice something in order to get another to fill my heart with love, because I can't see that my heart is already the source of all the love I ever experience." The bargaining "sub" is unconsciously manipulating and exerting subtle control to take the energy of their partner. Co-dependence is an even more extreme manifestation of this.

Be healthy in the esteem of your SELF, by first owning the love and fulfillment that has always existed in the only place you have ever felt it -- your own heart.


Awesome.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to aldompdx)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: submission and self-esteem - 5/5/2007 3:36:38 PM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: aldompdx

In its positive manifestation, submission or surrender takes great strength. It is an affirmative choice to share the love that is already in your heart, and release your ego identification that another is the source of your love. "I am wonderful, full of light and love, and I unconditionally share that with one whom I freely give the authority to exercise control." The choice to follow, and follow your heart, requires great self-esteem. You know what you prefer, and you pursue it.

In its negative manifestation, submission or surrender can be a mechanism of psychological bargaining. Giving to get is really taking, which is not submitting or surrendering at all. "I am empty and devoid of love, so I am going to sacrifice something in order to get another to fill my heart with love, because I can't see that my heart is already the source of all the love I ever experience." The bargaining "sub" is unconsciously manipulating and exerting subtle control to take the energy of their partner. Co-dependence is an even more extreme manifestation of this.

Be healthy in the esteem of your SELF, by first owning the love and fulfillment that has always existed in the only place you have ever felt it -- your own heart.


Awesome.


Totally agree.  For me, however, if the Dom uses everyone as a toilet or any other favorite activity, then that would make me feel badly and maybe even a lowering of self-esteem.  That He shares such an intimate thing with me, gives of Himself to me, is such an awesome compliment that the very act of surrender fills me, the more i give the more i get, the less i focus on self, the more my self is renewed.


_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: submission and self-esteem - 5/5/2007 5:38:56 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		According to my therapist it is natural for me to have sought out a D/s role because in real life I have heavy responsibilities and being able to put constant responsibility aside and just follow as he leads is a mini vacation to me. Well, until he misplaces his keys and I have to check every pocket, every coat, every surface in the house and cars to find them!

Honestly, we don't do piss/shit play so I can't speak to that. But my self esteem is higher in this D/s relationship because he is trustworthy to hand responsibility over to. Meaning that he doesn't see any reason to make me worry about him fucking up, or abusing me to make him feel better. Because I know he has my back, that I'm not alone in the big, bad world anymore, I have become stronger. It's a new thing for me to ask someone else for help and have it given, even rarer for someone to notice I need help and give it whether I ask for it or not.

But I liken our relationship to a CEO/executive assistant thing. Jack Welch's former exec asst earned over $150,000 yearly. The fact that she wasn't in charge didn't mean she wasn't important. She was hugely important to managing his day and freeing him to do his work. He spoke openly about how he could not have been as effective as he was without someone that competent in his outer office.

The more capable I am in my role, the more powerful he is in his. And there lies the power exchange.

(in reply to minnetar)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: submission and self-esteem - 5/5/2007 5:42:09 PM   
dawntreader


Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: minnetar

SirDominic and mstrjx how very beautifully written!!

minnetar



i agree :-)

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to minnetar)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: submission and self-esteem - 5/5/2007 5:43:54 PM   
dawntreader


Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aldompdx

Be healthy in the esteem of your SELF, by first owning the love and fulfillment that has always existed in the only place you have ever felt it -- your own heart.


Beautiful!

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to aldompdx)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: submission and self-esteem - 5/5/2007 5:55:54 PM   
LaMspeach


Posts: 794
Joined: 12/4/2004
From: Philadelphia area, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: switchguy4u

Having subbed in 90% of my play, I would say there’s two types of people who sub.

1)Those that are in power in their day to day life and just want to be able to be treated like crap sometimes

2)Those with very low self worth that feel they deserve to be treated like this


I know it generalizing, and maybe you would have shades of grey here and there. But still, I would say that assessment is fairly accurate.


I don't agree with this at all ...  For me it isn't about " wanting to be treated like crap once is a while" or " very  low self worth"  For me (and most of the submissive/slaves i know) it is about having the strength and courage to know what you want and working towards that goal. It is about consciously making the decision to give control to another .

Edit to add ... I agree with Madamebutterly she said it better then I could. I should have read all the post first.

< Message edited by LaMspeach -- 5/5/2007 5:58:22 PM >

_____________________________

peach ~ LordandMasters devoted alpha slave
"Only when the year has grown cold does one know that the pine and cypress are the last to wither"



(in reply to switchguy4u)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: submission and self-esteem - 5/5/2007 6:45:54 PM   
MissOchistic


Posts: 315
Joined: 4/30/2007
Status: offline 		i find that my serving is exactly what gives me my self esteem. Never do i feel more worth the air i'm breathing than when i make Him happy. Even when i feel frustrated, hurt, or lonely...i still feel accomplished. And what's better, i finally feel that those emotions are not for nothing. They have great purpose, and knowing this makes them enjoyable.

When i am a slave i am a Queen, and when i am feeling pain i am elated.

What a good life when a simple "Good kitty" or scratch on the ears is all you need!


< Message edited by MissOchistic -- 5/5/2007 6:46:52 PM >

_____________________________



"The amount i care for Thee
is more than two, but less than three."

"Submission is a potlatch."

(in reply to Aristogeiton)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: submission and self-esteem - 5/5/2007 7:14:59 PM   
Kitte9


Posts: 411
Joined: 11/26/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aristogeiton

I have two minds about this. 



And that is a frightening thought. ; )

_____________________________

I am stronger than yesterday

(in reply to Aristogeiton)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: submission and self-esteem - 5/5/2007 7:31:58 PM   
switchguy4u


Posts: 22
Joined: 1/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I don't agree with this at all ...  For me it isn't about " wanting to be treated like crap once is a while" or " very  low self worth"  For me (and most of the submissive/slaves i know) it is about having the strength and courage to know what you want and working towards that goal. It is about consciously making the decision to give control to another .

Edit to add ... I agree with Madamebutterly she said it better then I could. I should have read all the post first.


Well, one may not consciously know the reasons behind things. But act upon their impulses anyway.  

Or maybe we just sub or Dom/me because we're all insane and whacked

By the way, if you go to BR this month feel free to tell me hi cause I'll probably be there with my Domme.

(in reply to LaMspeach)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: submission and self-esteem - 5/5/2007 7:46:06 PM   
sireninchains


Posts: 63
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		I have, in the past had self esteem issues. Whilst going through those issues I never could have been the submissive I am now. I say this because to allow myself to submit to another, I must be absolutely secure in what I am doing, be secure in myself, and be secure in how that other person sees me. It sounds like alot, but if i feel faltering, then I dont feel safe, and then the scene just goes to shit. Fear is one thing, safety is another altogether. For me, safety and security in myself run hand in hand. I personally must be secure and have have self esteem before I begin to have security and trust in another. I know I am not so unique as to be the only one to have these feelings, not to say it is universal either, I am sure that there are people out there who just feel like they're shitty humans and want to get abused. And yes, in my mind, thats what it is at that point, abuse.
-sireninchains-

(in reply to switchguy4u)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: submission and self-esteem - 5/5/2007 11:50:44 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aristogeiton

I have two minds about this.  On the one hand, I don't feel that there's any shame to acting out the role that nature, or early experiences, or psychology, has given to me.  There is no denying that at the feet of a dominant is where I feel most at home, where I belong.  But if I do feel that that's where I belong, what does that say about my own self-esteem?  If dom and sub are equal in dignity, if not in stature within the relationship, why is the sub the human toilet?  Is the only way to enjoy BDSM to acknowledge my own lack of self-respect and revel in it?



I would say that it doesn't say anything about your self-esteem.

I think I'm pretty fucking awesome. I'm a good listener, I love unconditionally, I'm there for my friends and loved ones whenever they need me, I give to charity, I'm a shoulder to lean on and someone to party with. I may be curvy, but I'm hot, a great lay and I give damn good head if I do say so myself. I'm not perfect, I've got my flaws but I'm a good person and I try to please my dominant at all times. Love yourself for who you are, including your submission. It's a beautiful thing and there are plenty of loving, caring dominants and owners who feel the same way.

By the way, the reason that if we are equal the sub the is human toliet is because the sub likes providing that service. I view my submission as being both the most unselfish and most self-serving things I can do. I take a great personal joy in my service to him, even if it's doing things I don't like. I'm getting my wants and needs filled. It would be far less self-serving for me to try to be a domme for a male sub. But I would suck at it. A lot.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Aristogeiton)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: submission and self-esteem - 5/5/2007 11:59:23 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: switchguy4u

Having subbed in 90% of my play, I would say there’s two types of people who sub.

1)Those that are in power in their day to day life and just want to be able to be treated like crap sometimes

2)Those with very low self worth that feel they deserve to be treated like this


I know it generalizing, and maybe you would have shades of grey here and there. But still, I would say that assessment is fairly accurate.


It would seem that your post implies that you feel that Dominating someone is equal to treating them like crap and submitting equals taking crap. Am I understanding correctly?

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to switchguy4u)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: submission and self-esteem - 5/6/2007 12:00:27 AM   
needDomme


Posts: 115
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline 		I agree, it's not a self esteem issue at all.  In my opinion, we're wired the way we are and there's nothing wrong with it.  What's important is that we do what makes us feel the best.  If it's to serve another, then fine.

need

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: submission and self-esteem - 5/6/2007 3:22:59 AM   
farieanne


Posts: 65
Joined: 2/24/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline 		i would like to start by stating that this is my opinion and only my opinion. i believe many many people have self esteem issues and i am among them. i am very confident in my ability to run my life and make sound decisions.Where i lack self esteem is in my womanhood and femininity.Never in my life have i ever felt more beautiful, womanly, and feminin than i have since submitting to and being collard by my Master. So if anything my submission has increased my self esteem. Just my opinion.

Master Peter's
"A woman will always sacrifice herself if you give her the opportunity. It is her favourite form of self-indulgence.” - William Somerset Maugham

< Message edited by farieanne -- 5/6/2007 3:24:13 AM >

(in reply to needDomme)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Submission and self-esteem - 5/6/2007 7:21:44 AM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aristogeiton

I have two minds about this.  On the one hand, I don't feel that there's any shame to acting out the role that nature, or early experiences, or psychology, has given to me.  There is no denying that at the feet of a dominant is where I feel most at home, where I belong.  But if I do feel that that's where I belong, what does that say about my own self-esteem?  If dom and sub are equal in dignity, if not in stature within the relationship, why is the sub the human toilet?  Is the only way to enjoy BDSM to acknowledge my own lack of self-respect and revel in it?



Succoring self-esteem is so often a form of thralldom in itself to some celestial scoreboard in the mind. In my experience, those who can empty their cup entirely and derive self-worth from slavery and the ability to please are rare and desired birds; there should be no shame in having that quality, despite popular wisdom waving its finger at the very notion. Be what you are. To use your word, revel in it.

(in reply to Aristogeiton)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: submission and self-esteem - 5/6/2007 7:53:37 AM   
SirDominic


Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissOchistic

i find that my serving is exactly what gives me my self esteem.



Hi,
When something outside of yourself "gives" you self esteem, it is not real. I'm not picking on you, or dismissing what you are feeling. You can feel good about yourself when someone else is making you feel that way, but it is an external source. As long as your self esteem is external instead of internal, you really don't have it.

One of the greatest lessons in life is that no-one can give you self esteem. To truly have it, it has to come from within you.

Namaste, Sir Dominic


_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to MissOchistic)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: submission and self-esteem - 5/6/2007 8:05:54 AM   
SirDominic


Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aldompdx

In its positive manifestation, submission or surrender takes great strength. It is an affirmative choice to share the love that is already in your heart, and release your ego identification that another is the source of your love. "I am wonderful, full of light and love, and I unconditionally share that with one whom I freely give the authority to exercise control." The choice to follow, and follow your heart, requires great self-esteem. You know what you prefer, and you pursue it.

In its negative manifestation, submission or surrender can be a mechanism of psychological bargaining. Giving to get is really taking, which is not submitting or surrendering at all. "I am empty and devoid of love, so I am going to sacrifice something in order to get another to fill my heart with love, because I can't see that my heart is already the source of all the love I ever experience." The bargaining "sub" is unconsciously manipulating and exerting subtle control to take the energy of their partner. Co-dependence is an even more extreme manifestation of this.

Be healthy in the esteem of your SELF, by first owning the love and fulfillment that has always existed in the only place you have ever felt it -- your own heart.


Excellent post, aldompdx, and worth reposting.
Namaste, Sir Dominic

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to aldompdx)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: submission and self-esteem - 5/6/2007 9:02:54 AM   
MistressDolly


Posts: 917
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aristogeiton

I have two minds about this.  On the one hand, I don't feel that there's any shame to acting out the role that nature, or early experiences, or psychology, has given to me.  There is no denying that at the feet of a dominant is where I feel most at home, where I belong.  But if I do feel that that's where I belong, what does that say about my own self-esteem?  If dom and sub are equal in dignity, if not in stature within the relationship, why is the sub the human toilet?  Is the only way to enjoy BDSM to acknowledge my own lack of self-respect and revel in it?



Deriving self-worth thru the gift of submission is indeed an arcane concept to grasp for most... yet, not so for the rare submissive who is himself acutely cognizant of the fact that submission is a gift that keeps giving back -- to him.    It's  a beautiful, harmonious and balanced closeness.  Revel in it.  :) 

_____________________________

m i s t r e s s d o l l y . c o m

m y s p a c e


(in reply to Aristogeiton)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: submission and self-esteem - 5/6/2007 9:31:55 AM   
daddysliloneds


Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aristogeiton

<snip>There is no denying that at the feet of a dominant is where I feel most at home, where I belong.  But if I do feel that that's where I belong, what does that say about my own self-esteem?


i don't know what it says about your self-esteem, though i do know what it says about mine; it says that i'm confident, secure, and accepting enough of myself to feel at home in a mirad of situations and places.

quote:

If dom and sub are equal in dignity, if not in stature within the relationship, why is the sub the human toilet?  Is the only way to enjoy BDSM to acknowledge my own lack of self-respect and revel in it?


some choose to feel like and/or be the human toilet because it trips their trigger or because they feel like it's what they deserve, or all they're worth. as for me, not once, have i ever felt like/been treated as or been the human toilet, so i guess if you perceive yourself as one or feel that is all you're good for, worth, etc., then that's all you're ever going to be/feel...

i lack no self-respect so bdsm is enjoyable to me because i feel more powerful in knowing that i have the insight, strength, knowledge and comfort in my own skin to yield to/defer/bottom/submit to another.


(in reply to Aristogeiton)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: submission and self-esteem - 5/6/2007 9:33:43 AM   
ICGsteve


Posts: 202
Joined: 2/2/2005
Status: offline 		Self esteem does not magically rise off of the self. It is generated by success in doing things that are not easy. If a sub does not find it always easy to be a sub, if being submissive is a challenge to them, then a long term relationship where they continually dig deeper into their submissiveness and get something out of it will be a self esteem raising experience.

There are many dons who want no part of a low self esteem sub, and I can understand why. It is an extra burden on any relationship, and so in the case of a power exchange relationship on the dom. A sub being low self esteem also adds to the risk to the dom, the risk that the sub will at some point decide that the relationship has been abusive. Some people thrive on risk and challenge which I get, but hopefully  eyes are wide open.

(in reply to MistressDolly)
Profile   Post #: 40
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