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RE: Give, Want or Need - 5/5/2007 8:02:34 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Oh Quivver, you seem pretty giving and submissive to me just from reading your posts. I am saddened someone's words could cut like that.

You know, my former dominant would often point out "flaws" in the way that you describe, and it hurt horribly. He would have me count how many times I used the word "I" "me" "my" compared to "you" to show me how "selfish" I was. It had a strong impact on me alright, because I had been taught to communicate that way in order to own my feelings.

Then when I found Daddy, I had to relearn all over again.. he wanted me to use "I" "me" "my".

There are still times when he makes me question how I communicate, but it is not in a degrading way, but in a way that I can improve how we interact.

Now for your question

quote:

So my question is do you always see the things you give, offer and do
naturally as first and foremost before what you want or need? 
This conversation has really shaken my core and has me
questioning deeply what it is I do.  



I think it is a balance for me. I think about the needs of others often, but I think about my own possibly even more. I am just human after all. There is no shame in thinking about my needs. I have them. I need sleep, water, food, social interaction, my family and friends. I have a lot of needs... and I think about how they will be met... pretty normal.

I will tell you this, when I was in the negotiation phase (otherwise known as "getting to know you") I tended to be selfish in my interactions with doms. I was for a couple of reasons, my time to find out if they were appropriate for me was BEFORE I became extraordinarily giving, not after. Another reason was because after I submit, I do tend to be extremely giving. I withhold at first. Giving takes time for me personally.

I can understand how you feel, that this is just who you are, and therefore it was not something you thought to list, but that is not a "flaw", nor does that make you "selfish". Those are two ugly words to label yourself with, and what I have read of you, they just aren't true labels when applied to you.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Quivver)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Give, Want or Need - 5/6/2007 6:09:36 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		There seems to be a plethora of Doms who carry a much larger chip on their shoulder than they can safely carry and feel the need to dump some of that weight onto submissives without their concent. 

In a recent exchange with a potential Dom, He set out some basic rules an one was that He was going to send me a contract for consideration and if i accepted i would be expected to follow the basic rules.  He never sent me the contract to read.  He got really mad at me for not following the rules.  He accused me of several things that frankly, if i played back the IM archives, would prove He was totally wrong in His accusations but even after i pointed out He had not done His part by sending the contract He apologized but continued to find fault after fault with me.  In other words... He was seeking out the negative.  i just added a thought to my journal regarding looking for the negative instead of the positive.  Some folks are just too angry with life in general to see clearly.  Those are not people i need in my life and i certainly am not going to allow them to hurt me.  Some people have dug a pit for themselves and rather ask for a rope to pull them out, they see their only solution is to drag enough people into their pit so they can climb out on their backs.


_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to Quivver)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Give, Want or Need - 5/6/2007 1:46:50 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline
quote:

Gypsygrl, I agree... I allow myself to be drained. If you have suggestions on conversation of self,
I'm all ears. Right now I could really use it.


I don't have a great answer for you 'cause I'm still figuring it out.  I make sure to get a couple hours by myself everyday just for me.  I took the word "volunteer" out of my vocabulary.  I've accepted the fact that I can't do everything, and try to ask for help or take it, when I need it without feeling guilty.  I limit my committments to only those things I can comfortably follow through on.  I try to continually ask myself what I'm needing and if I'm getting those needs met and if not, why.


_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin


(in reply to Quivver)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Give, Want or Need - 5/6/2007 3:20:28 PM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl
I've accepted the fact that I can't do everything, and try to ask for help or take it, when I need it without feeling guilty.  I limit my committments to only those things I can comfortably follow through on.  I try to continually ask myself what I'm needing and if I'm getting those needs met and if not, why.



oh sigh, ask for help AND take it?  that's a tough one.............. 



_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to gypsygrl)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Give, Want or Need - 5/6/2007 5:44:11 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline
quote:

oh sigh, ask for help AND take it? that's a tough one..............


Heh.  Yes it is a tough one.  Even harder for me is to do both without guilt. :)


_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin


(in reply to Quivver)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Give, Want or Need - 5/6/2007 7:41:45 PM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

Heh.  Yes it is a tough one.  Even harder for me is to do both without guilt. :)



Exactly what crossed my mind.  Damn guilt starts the revolving door to volunterism. 
why oh why do we feel like we have to do it all! 
sigh...................  thanks i'm glad to hear i'm not alone in this battle. 


_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to gypsygrl)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Give, Want or Need - 5/7/2007 3:27:14 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Quivver
...So my question is do you always see the things you give, offer and do
naturally as first and foremost before what you want or need?...


yes.
 
before this slave was aware that folks structured relationships specifically around  D/s and M/s dynamics, every single time it was brought out in the open, such as in response to a question like the one that was posed to you, this slave was told how mentally/emotionally damaged/abused she must be to have that sort of natural inclination---only someone who had suffered through someone else's "abuse" of them and had no self-worth or esteem could happily respond or react "naturally" in such a way.  then comes the advice and encouragement to seek therapy and meds.
 
please don't misunderstand...there has been no welcoming committee for that attitude, upon discovery of folks here and in non-cyber life who label themselves submissive/slave/switch/whatever, either.  Very few really appreciate it in another to such an extent and most deny it exists.

(in reply to Quivver)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Give, Want or Need - 5/7/2007 6:10:43 AM   
KeirasSecret


Posts: 415
Joined: 8/17/2006
From: central NH
Status: offline 		I’m not sure I’m understanding the question right, and since I find it easier for me to respond with my own reply and then see what others have to say. I don’t know if it’s been explained better either, so I am answering according to what I understand from the rest of the post.

I don’t think I would have thought to put “giving” on a list of my wants or needs; I don’t think “serve” would be there either. If I had a list of wants and needs and was asked how I would expect to fulfill them, then I would think to say those things.

My train of thought just doesn’t run that route directly. One who wanted to go there, would have to get on at another station, such as, “What would you expect of yourself as a submissive?”, or the one I mention above.

What the other person did reminds me of what Sir would call “fishing”. It seems he was looking for a specific answer and instead of coming right out and asking; he tried to bait you into saying it. He asked the wrong question (used the wrong bait).

If I were fishing and used the wrong bait, I don’t see how I could blame the fish for not biting, and if the fish came up to me, tapped me on the shoulder and said, “Oh sorry, I didn’t understand what you were getting at, but I’m with you now.” It wouldn’t make sense to me, to slap the fish and tell it to get back in the water either. *shrugs*

As far as being confident I qualify to carry the title given to me by my Dom, or even the one I’ve placed on myself, regardless of the fact that giving” and “service” wouldn’t be on such lists; intent and results tell me I can.

Hope you are feeling better soon,


_____________________________

It apears to me, the practice of "an eye for an eye" has finally taken it's toll; the majority are now walking around blind.

Bitching; whining in a louder voice.

If the truth hurts, change it!

(in reply to Quivver)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Give, Want or Need - 5/7/2007 6:33:39 PM   
slaveish


Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
Status: offline 		There is something missing in written communication. You cannot convey expression, cannot immediately answer questions or concerns, and since YOU know what is in your head and in your heart, it is difficult to express the pieces of yourself that you understand so well because these things seem like they would be obvious to everyone. I've had this sort of miscommunicative experience and I feel for you.

_____________________________

You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

(in reply to Quivver)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Give, Want or Need - 5/7/2007 8:15:37 PM   
Sirandlittle1


Posts: 538
Joined: 12/22/2005
Status: offline 		Absolutely not. Im afraid its all about me me me!

Im learning that its supposed to be about him, him, him.
But truly, deep down, its not. Its about me. Its about how good 'i' feel when im doing such and such for him. Sure, he's one of the most important people in my life, in fact, No. 1, right behind 3 other people i love unconditionally. But even they do not always come first. Sometimes, i come first.

What you describe is a request for what you consider you wants and needs. Some submissives/slaves have a need to serve another. I dont! Quite frankly, after decades of looking after my parents, then my own family, raising children, being cook and bottle washer for fucking years and years, i do NOT need to serve anyone, ever again!
There are as many dynamics in this lifestyles as there are shades of grey. he presumably was looking for a service orientated/driven partner. You may or maybe not one of them, he never hung around to find out.
What he has demonstated to you however, is that he is not very skilled in getting his needs met. If his need is to be served, then he'd of been better off, asking how you might go about providing for his need for this.
Then there is his reaction to your supposedly incorrect response. He spat the dummy! Jesus, narrow escape eh love?

Kick im to the curb, and step over him as you continue with your journey.
life is too short to waste on wankers

(in reply to Quivver)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Give, Want or Need - 5/8/2007 9:28:42 AM   
softpjOS


Posts: 398
Joined: 6/7/2005
Status: offline 		Sometimes when we are asked a question such as what are our wants/needs we can completely forget those most basic core needs.  Not because they are not important but because they are simply "us" and not seen as "service", "need", "want"

For instance:

Mistress and I hit a bump in the road and She instructed me to write a list of every rule She had ever given me.  (eekk!) When I presented the list to Her, She sat shaking Her head. I could only come up with 6 rules.  Why?  Because everything else over the years had simply become "me", I didn't view them as rules....they were simply things that I did (didn't do).  It took us over a week sitting and discussing them before we both realized Her number one rule was not on the list.  LOL. 

If someone takes what you present as a hard and fast definition of "you" without benefit of discussion, reflection and clarification.....they truly don't understand people and more importantly.. don't want to. 

pj


(in reply to Sirandlittle1)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Give, Want or Need - 5/8/2007 10:51:50 AM   
MsKatHouston


Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline 		I agree with that.  Additionally, to make such a blanket statement such as "you are not submissive" is so far out there.  You may not be the submissive for him but who is he to say you would not be the ideal submissive for someone else, regarless of what your wants and needs are?  Do you feel you are a submissive?  That's what counts.  When looking for a dominant, your compatibility with whomever you choose is also important.  What random other people think, even ones you feel are close to, matters not.  Don't let one person's opinion shake your belief and confidence in yourself.

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to softpjOS)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Give, Want or Need - 5/8/2007 11:23:48 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Sometimes people ask a vague question, expecting to hear you say this or that. My view is if i am asked a question i will answer truthfully. If you dont like the answer you shouldnt have asked the question and just told me what i should say.
As you rightly say, part of you needs and wants to give, you just took that as a given and didnt feel the need to elaborate. It doesnt make your reply wrong so dont be so hard on yourself. And pass the chocolates guys like them too.

(in reply to Quivver)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Give, Want or Need - 5/8/2007 9:55:06 PM   
farieanne


Posts: 65
Joined: 2/24/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline 		First of all i agree with E/everyone else on here, don't let someone else tell you who or what you are. If someone called me girl, woman, sub, slave i would not mind because i am. If someone called me stupid, ugly, lazy, male, whore i would not care because i am not and it only shows their own ignorance. we give people power over us and we also give words power over us.

I have been a sub for a few years and i have spoken with many sub/slave. Often when asked why they are sub/slave they spew the expected answer of "because i need to serve." or " because i like to please others." and while these staments are in fact well and true, if most look deep inside themselved they are sub/slave because it pleases them. It pleases them to serve others to see others pleasure in them and thier service. If it did not please them and make them feel good they would not do it. So in reality it is really selfish.

i am pretty active in real time BDSM D/s community here. Going to weekly munches, monthly sunday brunches, and a few play parties though my Master does not "play" publicly. Most the Dom/mes i know if they asked this question and got the spewed answer from a sub that she needed to serve or needed to give to othere they would laugh at her and tell her to stop repeating what she hears and use her own brain.

i am an owned sub/slave and i do not concider what i do as giving or even really service. Yes my Master uses my body as He wishes and sees fit and i do not protest or call the cops or press charges LMBO!!! Wwe are 24/7 and i live with Him. As He wishes i do not work but i do do 90% plus of the house work and cooking, (He has a daughter that does chours and He take out the trash and all the outside work.) i ready His shower and often i bath Him and shave Him. i rub His back and i do anything He ask me to without complaint. However i do not really see this as service. i do it from my heart and because yes i love to see Him happy thats what makes me happy and feel good. i do not think i would have put giving or serving others on my list either and i have been a sub/slave for over five or so and a collard sub/slave for over two years now. So don't let others tell you what or who you are, just be true to yourself.

(in reply to Quivver)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Give, Want or Need - 5/16/2007 9:40:01 AM   
Lordskitten


Posts: 66
Joined: 10/12/2005
Status: offline 		Sounds to me like he was fishing for answers like "I want to give...."  and "I need to give...."  It was a trap and a silly one at that.  As many have said dont give him any heed, a Master worth your attentions will know these things already, and genuinely WANT to know what you want and need, not what he can expect from you.

Wants and needs often progress to revolve around the Dominant AFTER you get to know them very well and are in a long term relationship with them.  For basic meet and chat there's nothing wrong with wants and needs revolving around yourself.  It gives the Dominant a good idea of how compatible you are with them, kink wise and emotionally IMO. 

(in reply to Quivver)
Profile   Post #: 35
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