submissive men damage? what who said this

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mons -> submissive men damage? what who said this (5/6/2007 3:19:20 AM)
greetings i had a email with this statement on it and it shock me so. why would anyone think this.? i find that submissive men are strong and powerful. this is becasue it takes so much to submit to a person. being a male it is more harder then his counter point the female submissive no one would call them weak? we know they are strong too. it takes more to be the submissive then to be the dominant one. they must take what we gave spanking whipping ect this is not just a litle thing it takes guts to be submissive. too me a submisive me is strong, men are not sue to be told what and when to do something. to learn to trust us and give the soul and body to the woman who control them is not easy as many think. it takes a long time to get a good real submissive man to trust and to give all he has not money but his body his mind to me . i could not find the post where they said the submissive male is damage maybe the one the person had was abuse. but i not meant one who was damage. so this statment in my opinion is not correct. they are as i will repeat the strongest of men they will protect their mistress at anytime. so if the male is damage is the female submissive damage as well ? thank you mons

earthycouple -> RE: submissive men damage? what who said this (5/6/2007 4:07:15 AM)
I am trying to get the the meat of this question and I think it is this (correct me if I am wrong).... Male submissives are damaged to be submissivs, are females damaged as well? I do not believed that "damage" sexual assault, verbal or physical abuse make a sub or a Dominant. I firmly believe we are born who we are. That's not to say someone can't Top or bottom on occassion. D~

XianDominSJ -> RE: submissive men damage? what who said this (5/6/2007 4:42:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mons it takes more to be the submissive then to be the dominant one. That may be your opinion, but I totally disagree. That type of statement seems akin to the "Submission is gift!" anthem, played ad nauseum as if all the dominants are supposed to bow in humble awe to the ineffable generosity of any sub willing to wear a collar. News flash: Dominance, done right, is every bit as much a gift, and "takes" every bit as much (effort? time? responsibility?) as submission. quote: too me a submisive me is strong, men are not sue to be told what and when to do something. Are you trying to say that it's somehow harder for submissively inclined men to submit than it is for women to submit? From what I've known and seen of the malesubs, I guess I just don't see this. It could be my perception, but I see far more posts from submissive women doing the soul searching and self-reflection of what it means to be sub, slave, kajira, or whatever. Beyond that, cultural changes have made passivity (ehem submissiveness) among men far more acceptable; whereas that same political correctness demands that a woman who actually wants to be submissive should be put in a time machine and sent back 100 years. Think about it: At work, if a man says, "Yeah, my wife pretty much runs the show" no one bats an eye. It's almost quaint. But if a woman says, "Oh yes, I'm submissive to my husband/boyfriend/significant-other, and yes I enjoy it" then the glares and eye rolling begin. Many of the women I know get the hardest time about their submission not from the men, but from other (obviously non-lifestyle) women. So I just don't see evidence for your point about how submissive men have is so much easier or how it comes so much harder for them. quote: it takes a long time to get a good real submissive man to trust and to give all he has not money but his body his mind to me . Most women won't "give all [she] has" out without just as much consideration, I assure you. quote: so if the male is damage is the female submissive damage as well ? If you're trying to ask if submission (or the lifestyle itself for that matter) comes from abuse, that's been discussed a zillion times. I'd look up the links, but I'm sure if you ask kindly a very fortunate feathered flyer will be happy to drop in with a few. In the mean time, let me give the absolute definitive answer to the abuse question: "Sometimes." There you have it.

LdyCougar -> RE: submissive men damage? what who said this (5/7/2007 12:44:37 PM)
Oh, darling, no... What is sweeter than a strong submissive man? ( my own perspective) True solid integrity is quality sought , be it Dominant or submissive. I would never want a weakling.

Lashra -> RE: submissive men damage? what who said this (5/7/2007 2:13:09 PM)
mons, The person who said it didn't have an idea of what they were talking about. Submissive traits are found in BOTH genders. I know some people claim not to have one or the other trait but thats rubbish they do. People need to learn that dominant/submissive traits have absolutely nothing to do with gender. Submissives of both genders are very strong people and they are not damaged. If they are damaged its due to past abuse or something of that nature not because of their submissive personalities. ~Lashra

NightVIne -> RE: submissive men damage? what who said this (5/9/2007 12:03:39 PM)
Anytime there is a maladjusted or misguided person in a subculture, the subculture is under attack as either attracting those people or creating them. As a pagan, gamer, sci-fi con attendee and such, I am often amazed at how often my groups are chastised for somebody's behavior who isn't really a legit member of us. We had a case of a sexual predator in my state who said he was a vamp and had young people hanging around him. He had "occult" and D&D items in his home, so of course all the goths, pagans and gamers ended up taking a hit, but becuase of his "preaching," the pagans took it the worst. That being said as a disclaimer, subcultures by dint of their status in terms of society at large are havens for the disenfranchised who are fringe elements. So yes, there are smelly, grossly clad dead-end job holding gamers who can't interact without a character sheet. Delusional people who are looking for real magick amongst the pagans. So amongst the BDSM crowd, we'll have have sad creatures who have awful backgrounds and are into this for all the wrong reasons. A "sub" I know who is extremely self-destructive on many levels had no love from his clinically insane mother who actually one day said I'm sick of you and tried to murder him. A Domme who cannot submit was very abused by her father when drunk who held her life in his hands numerous times and even shot her on not one but two occasions. These are thankfully not typical childhoods for anybody, but you can see where they would cause relationship issues. The "sub" is slowly killing himself with drugs, alcohol, unsafe sex (has AIDS), awful diet and smokes - all in alarming quanitites. The Domme has met a Dom, and she seems like she is going to get over the worst of it and be able to love and commit and have a more or less normal life after all. They both ended up in the Lifestyle, but not because of their backgrounds. How they live in the Lifestyle IS affected by their background. That's the thing people have to understand. So depending on whom you meet and how interactions occur, it can scew your idea of what Dom(me)s and subs and switches are all about. I've met strong subs and weak Doms. Part of the reason I stayed away from active participation for so long has to do with whom I met that wanted to be with me as a Dom until recently. NightVine

cjenny -> RE: submissive men damage? what who said this (5/9/2007 12:24:54 PM)
Good post NightVine.

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