Approaching finding a partner

Approaching finding a partner (Full Version)

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BeachMystress -> Approaching finding a partner (5/6/2007 8:29:10 AM)
The post about how to deal with asking a Domme out brought up one of the things that confuses/frustrates me about some of my real time Domme friends. While I've always preferred to be in charge of setting dates with submissives, many of my Domme friends still wish the guy to pursue them. Any guy who doesn't chase them doesn't rate a second glance by them. Yet they are envious of my subhub, his behaviour and his submissive nature. I've pointed out to them that I was the aggressor in our relationship. We've discussed the fact that many men with my husband's nature aren't going to pressure a Domme, but rather feel that if she wishes him, she'll make the first move. And time and again, my friends end up with overly aggressive males who call themselves sub, yet end up trying to top from the bottom. I've pointed out that the personality trait it takes to chase a woman may not be the same one it takes to deeply submit. And while these Domme agree with it in principal, they don't change how they seek subs. One of them is very unhappy with the males she is attracting. I've helped her change her wording on online profiles and have talked with her about body language at dungeons and events. Those things have helped her somewhat, but the fact is that she still responds best to the males who pay her tons of overt attention. This means she is still not getting the deferential submissive who makes her the center of his world. I've yet to be able to convince her to test drive the submissives who glance shyly at her from the edge of the dungeon. And no, I'm not looking for advice on how to help my friends. I've done what I can. I just had an urge to share my feelings that if what you're doing to find the partner you desire isn't working, then maybe you should evaluate how and where you're looking. Yes, it is a long hard road to relationship bliss in any case, but if you're shooting yourself in the foot by not looking where what you seek is- if you're looking for a horse, you don't roam car lots hoping to find one - then you make your chances that much worse.

DommeChains -> RE: Approaching finding a partner (5/6/2007 8:45:41 AM)
Ditto the sentiments. I have been the initiator with all of my successful kink connections. It makes sense that a man who wishes the woman to take control would seek that from the beginning.

addicted2it -> RE: Approaching finding a partner (5/6/2007 9:06:18 AM)
One would think that a Domme would be the one who makes the first move when it comes to courtship, but even within BDSM circles, it seems to be the exception rather than the rule. Most submissive men who I have known would welcome the advances, and some actually expect it to be that way. However, our gender roles are not as easy to shake off as we would like to believe. After all, men have traditionally been the ones who make the first move. If and when a woman (Femdom or otherwise) takes the initiative, it is often done in a more subtile way. Men are expected to ask a woman out for the first time, and we are genetically-programmed to more easily accept failure. It is less easy for a woman to risk being turned down because they have little experience in that regard.

pixelslave -> RE: Approaching finding a partner (5/6/2007 12:16:35 PM)
BeachMystress, In many ways I don't disagree with what you've said about the Mistress taking the role of being the agressor and making the first move. OTOH, I suspect that many women are looking for subs with self-confidence, including having the confidence in themselves to apporoach a potential Mistress and ask her out. I'm not saying either view is right or wrong, only that there can be a mix of personality and behavioral characteristics in a man that might be desired by a woman who wants to be in control. [&:] Many don't want to have to micromanage a man, thus they want one that can think for himself and is confident in the decisions that he makes. Presumably they also want to know that they are "the one" the submissive male would actually like to serve. It can see where it is genuinely a dillemma for those women. I'm sure it is part of the age old problem that men have had of dealing with potential rejection when "putting themselves out there" when they make the first move. [8\|] - pixel

MistressLorelei -> RE: Approaching finding a partner (5/6/2007 1:01:27 PM)
I can agree with some of BeachMystress's comments, but I also have a different way of thinking... At a group function, if there are many males and time is limited, the ones who have the ability to politely approach, engage me in conversation, offer to fetch a drink, etc. are likely to get my attention as it would show a willingness to serve and would give me the chance to see if I wish to know him any further. Approaching the male who just sits and waits may never happen, and how many would I have to approach, engage in conversation (which to some like this is like pulling teeth), before I found one I wish to pursue further. There are worthwhile approaching males, who may be indeed looking for the center of their universe, but who have spent too much time being invisible, and there are males who seem to sit and wait to be approached who are jaded, lack self-esteem, are emotionally unavailable, lazy, or are disintersted in anyone but the porn star in leather look. I think it's all individual without a right way or wrong way.... if I see someone I am interested in, I would approach, but if they are all like similar fish in the sea, the ones who jump the highest will get noticed first... and the bad fish will be returned to sea.

MistressDoMe -> RE: Approaching finding a partner (5/6/2007 1:08:10 PM)
I agree with what you are saying BeachMistress. Most of the men that approach most Domina's are of the Do Me Variety. I prefer making the selection, rather than being the one selected.

addicted2it -> RE: Approaching finding a partner (5/6/2007 2:54:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressDoMe I agree with what you are saying BeachMistress. Most of the men that approach most Domina's are of the Do Me Variety. I prefer making the selection, rather than being the one selected. I'm not sure that I understand what the MistressDoMe handle is all about, because you obviously have issues with those of the "do me" variety. Is your handle a sarcastic representation of those who have come your way, or what? I can only speak for myself, but I have never been of the variety of subs who need to have their individual fetishes catered to by anyone. In my frame of reference, I offer what I have to give, rather than to suggest any particular fantasies or fetishes that would satisfy my needs.

addicted2it -> RE: Approaching finding a partner (5/6/2007 3:01:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei I can agree with some of BeachMystress's comments, but I also have a different way of thinking... At a group function, if there are many males and time is limited, the ones who have the ability to politely approach, engage me in conversation, offer to fetch a drink, etc. are likely to get my attention as it would show a willingness to serve and would give me the chance to see if I wish to know him any further. MistressLorelei, you seem to be very down-to-earth and logical in your viewpoint about how you wish to be approached by a submissive. I cannot agree with you more. And if you decide not to persue a relationship with an inquiring sub, then it is your right not to. This is no more or no less than what happens in vanilla life and in vanilla courtship. It is all about a person presenting one's self, and of the taking of a risk to either be accepted or rejected. No more, no less.

MistressDoMe -> RE: Approaching finding a partner (5/6/2007 3:08:29 PM)
You don't have to understand what my screen name is all about. I did not create it for you, I get hundreds of emails so I guess many others understand what the name is about.

GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Approaching finding a partner (5/6/2007 3:25:07 PM)
I agree with you, Beach... and I also agree with Mistress Lorelei. So I would also say that herein lies the conundrum. In a sense, I am already stating My desires and who might interest me in My profile. I am sure many read this and think that I am to picky, or demanding of ones I do not know as yet. Yet, I say, that if they do not react well to My profile, they should move on, since they are not likely to interest Me as a potental relationship. Once the communication is established, I am running the show, so to speak... Same with My munches. When I am out in public, I do expect a boy to take some initiative in showing what he is made of. I know that Greg was very attentive and busy at the event where you met, which made an intial good impression on you, and then he was the aggressor, at least in the sense that he pushed someone else out of the way to get your attention and have you choose him for play. (I love that story, btw!) At the very least I expect all these local boys who claim to be endlessly seaching to make an effort to get off their butts and make a trip to the restaurant. But, they are too shy, or they are too scared...I can't tell you how many have written to me after the munch to state they came in, saw us, and then quietly left because they were afraid. I respect their fear, but I also know, if they are too afraid to sit down and order a cup of coffee, they are not ready for Me! Smile Instead they beg for a private chat on IM, or give Me their phone number. Sorry, that doesn't make them attractive to Me. I don't want their phone number until I have determined it is worth My time to have it, and then I will ask for it... or I will priovide My number and instruct them regaridng when they should call. It takes some initiative on both sides. I can honestly say I have a jaded view of the boys online. So, unfairly perhaps, it will take more for them to get their foot in the door. If they don't make the effort to show that they are interested in Me, and not just any Lady who might have an IM, by comprehending My profile and responding appropriately, then I don't have the time.

robertolapiedra -> RE: Approaching finding a partner (5/6/2007 3:27:26 PM)
Hello BeachMystress. Excellent observations. For my part I'm not surprised. Take the gay community do you think men make contact very quickly? you bet they do! And the ladies? there seems to be more of the 'waiting for her move game' don't you think? I do not see any reason why these natural tendancies should be different for dom/sub first contact. Unless it's a protocol thing? Etiquette? It is not a power related move, it is a first contact related move. Some read it with the sub/dom filters. Subs meet other people too, if they usually make the first move in the vanilla world why should it change in meeting potential doms (and vice versa)? RL.

AAkasha -> RE: Approaching finding a partner (5/6/2007 5:13:42 PM)
Interesting thread. Question to the OP: Do your femdom friends give a reason for not wanting to be the aggressor? Is it that they don't want to do the work? Is it a fear of rejection? Is it that they like the attention from men, even if they don't like the men? Is it that they feel the men they select will be too meek if these men are unable to muster the courage to make any kind of move? I'm a bit of a mixed bag on this one. I'm predatory - I like to pursue, I like to be the aggressive one, I like to make the first move. I agree with your point that a femdom should be taking more control of her selection and not waiting for it to happen, and that the best catches are sometimes the quiet, reserved one. The problem is that with the quiet, shy side, many submissives are all the way at the other end of the scale and their inability to make any kind of move is part of their personality and a trait I don't like at all. I like a man to submit to me, but I don't like men that can't work a room, can't make people laugh, can't hold his own, and most importantly -- has some self confidence and pride. A man can have that and still be silent and standing in a corner though -- that foundation must exist as the first layer. Once I make a move or show interest, I want a man to be able to reciprocate in some way, but knows to stay out of the way because I am in control (and I have no problem making that clear). A submissive man still has to find a way to stand out. I think the bigger problem comes with him being on the same level in the initial stages, when it comes to socializing. Shy is one thing; expecting a woman to do all the talking is a big red flag for me. Not being able to ask conversation-starter questions that are NOT relate to kink is another red flag. A third red flag is the inability to listen, and listen with interest (not staring at boobs, not acting sheepish or meek and thinking that's "cute"). A fourth red flag is the inability to "be submissive" (if that's where his comfort is) and STILL BE on the ball -- ie, does she need her glass refilled? Should you suggest a seat to be more comfortable? Being able to say things like "Would you like to sit down, would that be more comfortable?" or "Can I get you anything?" etc. That's a big no brainer for me. So much of it for me is the same common-sense dating/flirting skills that I think vanilla men work hard to hone. Just because the woman is being the aggressive one doesn't mean you get to sit back and do nothing.... Akasha

LadyPact -> RE: Approaching finding a partner (5/6/2007 7:10:52 PM)
Very good points on both sides. I've written on other posts that, if submissives want to be noticed, they have to do something to stand out. Supposedly, there are a signifigant number of male subs out there in relation to the number of Dommes. If that is the case, the males would have to do something besides be a wall flower in a crowded room. Here on CM, the only way to get My attention is by either the posts that are made on the boards or by direct email. In some cases, I've initiated and others I haven't. If the email exchange stops, I consider the boy no longer interested. If I provided My messenger address and it wasn't used.... Again, lack of interest. I have something of a quid pro quo stance. If I sent an email that got no response, whether it is the first or the twentieth, I accept that as the boy is not willing to continue communications. In a few such cases, it's been a disappointment, but I'm not willing to chase after anyone.

Eldritchdancer -> RE: Approaching finding a partner (5/6/2007 7:23:18 PM)
I would point out that, when there is a passive Dom/me surrounded by the braying of asses, it is hard to hear the servile voice at the back of the pack. Many of those quiet, servile types that lurk at the edge are doing so out of politeness. If the Dom/me looks to be enjoying the attention of the people clustered about them, many will think, "He/She is busy. I don't want to interrupt. That would be rude". While they miss out on the chance to possibly meet the right Dominant, those quiet subs are still doing what they think is a service. Because, really, how many of Us would appreciate someone quiet who interrupts the fawning of the pack? Master Darkmoon

MistressLorelei -> RE: Approaching finding a partner (5/6/2007 9:36:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Eldritchdancer I would point out that, when there is a passive Dom/me surrounded by the braying of asses, it is hard to hear the servile voice at the back of the pack. Many of those quiet, servile types that lurk at the edge are doing so out of politeness. If the Dom/me looks to be enjoying the attention of the people clustered about them, many will think, "He/She is busy. I don't want to interrupt. That would be rude". While they miss out on the chance to possibly meet the right Dominant, those quiet subs are still doing what they think is a service. Because, really, how many of Us would appreciate someone quiet who interrupts the fawning of the pack? Master Darkmoon This is true... sometimes. But if someone is blending into the woodwork, it will likely take him/her longer to be approached, if it ever even happens. If there is a submissive who is worthwhile and thinks he will be an asset to Me, it would serve Me far more for him to give Me a glimpse of his worthwhile attributes, than to wait and hope that I will approach him from within the shadows. I would bet that most of the time those who are waiting on the sidelines will be equally as unimpressive in some way or other as those who use the approaching approach. What isn't impressive are the submissives who latch on to every woman who passes by.... and certainly no one likes to be approached by those who behave like an ass. Politeness, sensitivity, manners, and many submissive qualities can be showcased in an attentive submissive, often moreso than in a dormant one. Not that there isn't anything to be said for those waiting in the wings.... I am sure that if someone caught my eye, it wouldn't matter if he was introducing himself or sitting shyly in the corner.

addicted2it -> RE: Approaching finding a partner (5/6/2007 9:38:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha Interesting thread. Question to the OP: Do your femdom friends give a reason for not wanting to be the aggressor? Is it that they don't want to do the work? Is it a fear of rejection? Is it that they like the attention from men, even if they don't like the men? Is it that they feel the men they select will be too meek if these men are unable to muster the courage to make any kind of move? I'm a bit of a mixed bag on this one. I'm predatory - I like to pursue, I like to be the aggressive one, I like to make the first move. I agree with your point that a femdom should be taking more control of her selection and not waiting for it to happen, and that the best catches are sometimes the quiet, reserved one. The problem is that with the quiet, shy side, many submissives are all the way at the other end of the scale and their inability to make any kind of move is part of their personality and a trait I don't like at all. I like a man to submit to me, but I don't like men that can't work a room, can't make people laugh, can't hold his own, and most importantly -- has some self confidence and pride. A man can have that and still be silent and standing in a corner though -- that foundation must exist as the first layer. Once I make a move or show interest, I want a man to be able to reciprocate in some way, but knows to stay out of the way because I am in control (and I have no problem making that clear). A submissive man still has to find a way to stand out. I think the bigger problem comes with him being on the same level in the initial stages, when it comes to socializing. Shy is one thing; expecting a woman to do all the talking is a big red flag for me. Not being able to ask conversation-starter questions that are NOT relate to kink is another red flag. A third red flag is the inability to listen, and listen with interest (not staring at boobs, not acting sheepish or meek and thinking that's "cute"). A fourth red flag is the inability to "be submissive" (if that's where his comfort is) and STILL BE on the ball -- ie, does she need her glass refilled? Should you suggest a seat to be more comfortable? Being able to say things like "Would you like to sit down, would that be more comfortable?" or "Can I get you anything?" etc. That's a big no brainer for me. So much of it for me is the same common-sense dating/flirting skills that I think vanilla men work hard to hone. Just because the woman is being the aggressive one doesn't mean you get to sit back and do nothing.... Akasha While I am not the OP, this subject is very pertinent to how we socialize with each other. Who defines the parameters? If a dominant woman does not take the initiative to at least give the submissive a que as to how to behave during the intitial stages of courtship, then who's responsibility is it? If there are no specific guidelines, then the submissive is left to his or her own methods. Can both dominant and submissive arrive at some sort of meeting of the minds? And if so, is this "meeting of the minds" simply based upon a case-by-case basis? Where are the rules if, in fact, there are rules? And who decides what and where?

pixelslave -> RE: Approaching finding a partner (5/6/2007 9:52:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei What isn't impressive are the submissives who latch on to every woman who passes by.... and certainly no one likes to be approached by those who behave like an ass. Politeness, sensitivity, manners, and many submissive qualities can be showcased in an attentive submissive, often moreso than in a dormant one. Not that there isn't anything to be said for those waiting in the wings.... I am sure that if someone caught my eye, it wouldn't matter if he was introducing himself or sitting shyly in the corner. What I would expect more than anything is that most women would want a submissive who is interesting, self-confident in what he brings to a potential Mistress and engaging enough to keep her interest. How can he be that from the sidelines? What is his submission worth to a woman if he hasn't sufficient self-confidence to approach you or even make the right kind of eye contact to indicate his interest in getting to know you and potentially becoming yours? He doesn't have to be an overconfident ass to approach a woman with confidence; only a gentleman using proper manners along with a bit of humor and charm. Knowing he's not desperate for your company has to make him more attractive to you. [;)] - pixel

AAkasha -> RE: Approaching finding a partner (5/6/2007 10:10:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: addicted2it While I am not the OP, this subject is very pertinent to how we socialize with each other. Who defines the parameters? If a dominant woman does not take the initiative to at least give the submissive a que as to how to behave during the intitial stages of courtship, then who's responsibility is it? If there are no specific guidelines, then the submissive is left to his or her own methods. Can both dominant and submissive arrive at some sort of meeting of the minds? And if so, is this "meeting of the minds" simply based upon a case-by-case basis? Where are the rules if, in fact, there are rules? And who decides what and where? When all else fails -- flirt. If there is some confusion or ambiguity, there are plenty of ways to flirt that are neither "dominant" or "submissive" or commit you to a role one way or another. Both subs and doms do well by learning the art of seduction and the joy of flirting. Akasha

MistressLorelei -> RE: Approaching finding a partner (5/6/2007 10:16:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pixelslave What I would expect more than anything is that most women would want a submissive who is interesting, self-confident in what he brings to a potential Mistress and engaging enough to keep her interest. How can he be that from the sidelines? What is his submission worth to a woman if he hasn't sufficient self-confidence to approach you or even make the right kind of eye contact to indicate his interest in getting to know you and potentially becoming yours? He doesn't have to be an overconfident ass to approach a woman with confidence; only a gentleman using proper manners along with a bit of humor and charm. Knowing he's not desperate for your company has to make him more attractive to you. [;)] - pixel I can't tell if you are re-stating in agreement the point that I made that, or if you are taking part of my post out of context and misunderstanding what I have said. Ah, the limitations of on-line communication...

pollux -> RE: Approaching finding a partner (5/6/2007 11:22:14 PM)
FWIW: I've been both pursuer and pursued here at CM on a few occasions. In every case where a real-life meeting was the result, the woman has initiated the contact. For the times I initiated the contact -- I have yet to have a real-life meeting develop from it. I have no idea what that means, or why that is. Maybe I write crummy introductory emails [:D] I seem to remember reading about some sociology study that was done that supposedly showed that the gender who chooses in the mating ritual is the female. Even in cases where the male initiates the contact, or he approaches first, or pursues her aggressively, he has first gotten (or thinks he's gotten!) some sort of signal that it's ok to approach. This has nothing to do with the lifestyle -- it's got some kind of basis in evolutionary biology. I think that's really what's in play here. To use the example from a munch, if a Domme is overwhelmed with attention from fawning subs, I think most men (not even most sub men) -- unless they get some eye contact or a smile or some sort of subtle sign of interest -- will stay away. It's just the polite, sensible thing to do.

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