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RE: Contracts for servitude the good, the bad, And why... - 5/10/2004 5:06:22 PM   
MistressKiss


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If a "thing" is held unconstitutional or illegal by the constitution of the United States, that applies to all states. If some dumbass judge allowed a contract that even hinted of slavery, it could be overturned by a higher court. I would be absolutely shocked to hear that ANY United States judge at ANY level upheld a contract related to slavery. I just don't buy it. If it's true, it is recorded in that state...so let's see some proof. Gimme a case or cause number. The judge is not allowed to uphold something that is forbidden by the constitution of the United States. That's the highest law in the land, remember? I am anxious to see if anyone can produce a real case/cause number. I can't wait to investigate.




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"I assure you, Your Honor, I don't have to practice...I'm very good at them..."
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(in reply to iwillserveu)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Contracts for servitude the good, the bad, And why... - 5/11/2004 1:47:38 PM   
DCMaster


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Let's decide what a contract would be a good thing
MJ

(in reply to MistressDREAD)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Contracts for servitude the good, the bad, And why... - 5/11/2004 3:50:17 PM   
Estring


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Say again?

(in reply to DCMaster)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Contracts for servitude the good, the bad, And why... - 5/11/2004 8:10:26 PM   
laguna


Posts: 3
Joined: 3/31/2004
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<RANT>
If it came down to actually having to go to court over a slave contract then I have to wonder what one could possibly expect to 'win'?
Certainly that in itself says something and there is such a thing as "justice" and isn't always metered out by the courts. As for the
comment/threat regarding 'slaves family'... Some might be shocked, some might shrug, but some might damn well put you in a 55
gallon drum and drop you off to feed the fish without thinking twice. Now, as for slave contracts... The one time I had one turned out
I wish I hadn't but felt morally bound to it, whereas the few times I haven't had one, it wouldn't have mattered because I enjoyed the
other person's company but I don't think they are legally binding. My understanding is that Indentures can be, but there has to be
some exchange of value as far as I know but I'm not a lawyer so <insert obligatory disclosure and charge reader for reading it>.
</RANT>

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Contracts for servitude the good, the bad, And why... - 5/11/2004 11:02:34 PM   
tomhealy


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Okay, yes slavery contracts are illegal. But not long-term employment contracts. It's all in the context. Nobody here is saying have the word slave anywhere in the contract. What MistressDread and I are talking about is legal contracts that for all practical intents and purposes makes one as close to being a real slave as the law does allow. One of the other aspects of contract law that nobody is bringing up is that even if one part of it may be considered unenforceable in a court of law, that does not exclude the whole contract from being unenforceable. The contract is still valid, just not that article. As for the comment that there would be coercion if there were articles dealing with discipline or punitive actions, that is not so if the contract was signed prior to those actions taking place. If the contract(s) and there should be many to cover even greater depths and prevent it all from being too one-sided are signed willingly and not under duress, then yes there are ways of contrctually obliging one person to another. There are limitations on duration, there has to be or it would indeed be a slavery contract or indentured servitute, neither of which is allowed in the US. I personally look forward to seeing or reading MistressDreads bombshell or even her contract(s) should she decide to post them for all to see.

Tom

(in reply to laguna)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Contracts for servitude the good, the bad, And why... - 5/11/2004 11:35:44 PM   
Estring


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quote:

What MistressDread and I are talking about is legal contracts that for all practical intents and purposes makes one as close to being a real slave as the law does allow


And what kind of contracts would those be? You keep talking in theory but let's see an example of a "slavery" contract that would be upheld.

Excluding recording contracts.

(in reply to tomhealy)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Contracts for servitude the good, the bad, And why... - 5/19/2004 1:28:25 AM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
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Now you can see why I named this post
Contracts for servitude
the name does NOT SAY slaves or slaves
and just because I state that I Own concensual
slaves and because I have contracts with all of
them I have not said that they are *called slave
contracts,,,,,, that is the words of other posters
not Me LOL and My Question was to why
they are different between what Mistresses use
and what Masters use not what MY personal contracts
involve. LOL DOES ANYONE READ THE QUESTIONS
HERE?? Contracts for servitude the good, the bad,
And why is it so different between Masters n Mistresses?
Mono and Poly? Short Term or Long Term?
Your Thoughts and a sample of what kind of contract
You use if any and why....

This is not a question posed for bashing ONe another
its for gaining information; This is not a question posed
for Lifestylers to take on the YOU ARE BREAKING THE
LAW VANILLA SOCIETYS OPINION TYPE BANTER I
get enough of it from the vanilla world to not have to
face it here in a Lifestye forum as well no names mentioned
and yes Tom you are absolutly right in your words and
if sumone really needs to see case numbers I will supply
many and notta one assocated to Me. Even tho I am not
the so called expert whom professes to work in this field
and those whom lay claim to such should be able to supply
the very same case laws that I would.

WHO wants to go with Me to Georgia to protect the
rights of woman to peirce or remove their libias being
taken away with a new proposed laws this law could include
if passsed men whom get their wankers peirced as well?
how many keep
up with whats allowed by law in their states and whats not
can you tell me if your state allows for you to even look
at porn online? how many states is it against the law to
spank in any shape way or form? did you know that there
is 5 states that you could go to jail for having sex anally be
it male on male or male on female? did you know it is against
the law in several states to go down on your partner married or
not? Yes there are laws on the books and many in MY opinion
outdated and obsolete but they do exsist and yes Me being a
nonconformist I will tend tobe the breaker of them. How many
laws that are written in anyone of Your states do You break with
out knowing in your daily life and living? I bet if I looked I could
find one law on the books in anyones state that every single person
has broken at one time or another in their lifes. NOT to get off the
subject but it was shifted by sumone else as to this ones Content.

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Contracts for servitude the good, the bad, And why... - 5/19/2004 7:03:36 AM   
Monts


Posts: 24
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline
Forgive me if I am restating others thoughts. There were a lot of posts on this subject and I have not a lot of time to go through them all thoroughly as I should. I apologize if I parrott anyone's opinion.

Contracts for me are a great tool. I dont think of them as legally binding. I dont think of them as constituting a marraige, which unfortunately lately they and collars seem to have become reference too.

Anyway, I consider them ideal for first time conversations, ice-breakers, and remembering everyting you wanted to ask but might forget otherwise. If you have a good contract you can cover a lot of likes and dislikes on both parties right away. Unless you both agree on consensual nonconsensual play, then its good to know each others limits upfront, even if they do tend to change. And as you get to know your play partner, slave, submissve....fill in the blank....better, then you can test these limits, but its a starting point.

Its also a great tool for punishment. You can put specifics in there that you can refer back to when things arent being done correctly. They are in black in white. "This is what should have been done. Why was it not?". Very good tool. Keeps them on their toes.

As for the bottm, slave....enter pronoun...., it is sometimes what they need to feel owned and safe and secure.

So I dont see where a contract is a bad thing, even if you dont believe in them as anything 'binding'. It grants you many tools to a better dynamic within whatever type of relationship it is your are pursuing.

MM

(in reply to MistressDREAD)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Contracts for servitude the good, the bad, And why... - 5/19/2004 4:22:51 PM   
iwillserveu


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I have to hand it to Estring. I'm just a me too (albeit a sarcastic one).

Is an employment cointract saying she will make coffee and blow her Master (excuse me, "employer") every morning enforcable.

I'd like to see an example.

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Contracts for servitude the good, the bad, And why... - 5/19/2004 7:14:42 PM   
indigo302


Posts: 127
Joined: 4/28/2004
From: Delaware
Status: offline
quote:

And what kind of contracts would those be? You keep talking in theory but let's see an example of a "slavery" contract that would be upheld.


Did she drop the 'bombshell' and I missed it? I was waiting as well for an example of these contracts...and a case number from one of her own cases would be nice to refer to as well :)

indi

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Contracts for servitude the good, the bad, And why... - 5/19/2004 7:50:02 PM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
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indigo
maybe when those
whom have posted
here with words and
not answered the
original question do
so then I might drop
My bombs as you
call them. There is
a spacific question
being asked here
.




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(in reply to MistressKiss)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Contracts for servitude the good, the bad, And why... - 5/19/2004 9:18:24 PM   
indigo302


Posts: 127
Joined: 4/28/2004
From: Delaware
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDREAD

maybe when those whom have posted here with words and not answered the original question do so then I might drop My bombs as you call them. There is a spacific question being asked here.


quote:

From 5/3/04
Adding a touch more to
see what it brings befor
The bomb is dropped.


Ahhh, Dread, it was you who called them bombs....

And perhaps people are posting here with words,. simply waiting with baited breath....for your ever important knowledge....or proof to back up your own statements....

I mean it has been 17 days since you discussed the dropping of the bomb.......well over the week we were promised early in the thread.

(in reply to MistressDREAD)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Contracts for servitude the good, the bad, And why... - 5/19/2004 10:52:11 PM   
MistressDREAD


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Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
OOOOH I let sum of My posts sits
for months indigo ~smiles~

do you really think I have sumthing to
prove to you? Just because you and
others would like to know My personal
life doesent Mean I will give this to you
I know plenty of case work that is not
related to Me what so ever that would
still prove My points. LOL
JMO
but this thread isent about Me now is it?

(in reply to indigo302)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Contracts for servitude the good, the bad, And why... - 5/25/2004 4:25:00 AM   
Code99


Posts: 11
Joined: 5/21/2004
Status: offline
Utah Godess,
I enjoyed Your article on contracts and must agree with its contents,it defines both roles very well as well as using Powere Excange.
Thank You.
Code

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D.L.H

(in reply to UtahGoddess)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Contracts for servitude the good, the bad, And why... - 7/26/2004 9:59:45 PM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
In 1991 the Netherlands created a new contract for registered partnerships.
Any person within the Netherlands, whether same-sex or different-sex,
or more then one partner partnerships may enter into a registered
partnership of anykind, and it will assure them
almost all the same benefits and obligations that apply to married
couples. Similarly, in 1998, France created the pactes civils de
solidarité (PaCS), a contract that allows both different-sex
and same-sex couples or more then two people partnerships to pledge
mutual support without going through the formalities of marriage legally.
There are cases in 11 other countrys pending currently including the
US which are following simalar contracts and laws. One need not be of
these countrys to sign and register a contract of such in that country
and have the contract legal and binding. This is the first of information
I will be giving on the issue of contracts with in the Lifestyle and
how One goes about making such a legally binding paper if serious about
long term contracts of concensual partners in Alternate Living. In the
US of course We have seen the new laws going in effect about same sex
marraige and this will bring in course other ways of co habitation laws
and contract and their values.Living together triggers more regulation,
under which the state recognizes a sort of contract between the two
or more cohabiting people. If one partner makes a promise to the other
to convince him to live with them, courts will enforce the promise.
If co habitants agree to share duties, so that one cares for the household
and the other furthers a career, the court will make sure the careerist
is not unjustly enriched when and if the people split up.
(The famous California palimony case, Marvin v. Marvin, reflects this
kind of regulation; many states and countries provide these
protections by statute and contract currently.Cohabitation
("Unitive" Rules). If cohabiting partners are together for a long
period of time or agree in writing, the state can apply "unitive"
rules to them. Such rules treat the partners as a unity (what the
French call vie commune) and grant them financial and other benefits
that reflect their unity, at least as to some matters. The new French
PaCS mentioned above, and Canada's extensive cohabitation rules,
provide two examples.Registered Partnership. Some US states will allow
people who want to commit to a longer term partnership, but do not
want to "marry," to register as committed partners. Such partners need
not cohabit. They receive the benefits of the other menu options
listed above such as a married couple but with out being married,
(including those that are standard under current law), and they take
on additional duties to each other as well. Examples of this type of
law include the Vermont civil unions law and the various European
registered partnership laws for two or more persons. There are also the
additional and different power of attorneys and employment long term
contracts that also add to the power of the partnerships of longterm
concensual servitude and Dominance.

Bottom Line is anyone commited to the long term relationship will also be commited to the contracts. A Contract if signed in the public eye with a notary in the US is a binding contract if shown not to have been signed under durress. In other Countrys simply entering into the Court Houses
provides for most a place to sign the contracts in front of Magistrates and
the like and also hold up in a court of law. Common Sence goes a long way in how a person approches such acts and be it the Dominant or suplicant if their head is used can have a concensual and binding contract
in hand for a long term Life with in this Lifestyle We call Alternate.

(in reply to MistressDREAD)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Contracts for servitude the good, the bad, And why... - 7/27/2004 11:22:29 AM   
iwillserveu


Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
Prove the Bill Gates, despite all the bruises was not under duress when he signed Microsoft over to Mistress Melinda Gates.

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to MistressDREAD)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Contracts for servitude the good, the bad, And why... - 7/28/2004 1:34:44 PM   
MistressDREAD


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maybe You havent seen a picture of Ol Bill lately iwill
He went from a cutsie brown head to totally grey the past year.
Id say there was complete duress there! hahhahaha
oh the places your mind takes you iwill are wonderful!

(in reply to iwillserveu)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Contracts for servitude the good, the bad, And why... - 7/28/2004 4:28:22 PM   
iwillserveu


Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
If he is using Windows the gray hair is understandable.

("Real" men use Linux.)

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to MistressDREAD)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Contracts for servitude the good, the bad, And why... - 7/29/2004 12:17:08 AM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

("Real" men use Linux. )


Oh i am so glad to know hubby is a "real" man, he is converting all his software to Linux. He writes software for small businesses for a living.

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proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to iwillserveu)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Contracts for servitude the good, the bad, And why... - 7/29/2004 9:16:44 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

If it came down to actually having to go to court over a slave contract then I have to wonder what one could possibly expect to 'win'?


If they are really lucky perhaps the judge will let them lick the toilet.

Sinergy

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"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to proudsub)
Profile   Post #: 60
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