RE: What other evidence has the CIA destroyed?

RE: What other evidence has the CIA destroyed? (Full Version)

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farglebargle -> RE: What other evidence has the CIA destroyed? (12/8/2007 5:14:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity He said that "The Bush administration has done GRAVE damage to us..." because he authorized questioning of prisoners under duress, etc.," The word is "torture". If it's not torture, why haven't you and your family gone through it? That's right. Because it's torture. And that you don't consider the loss of Habeas Corpus to be GRAVE damage says more about you than anything else. quote: and I was just asking about the damage done by John Kerry WHY? What relevance do the alleged criminal acts of John Kerry have with the alleged criminal acts of a sitting president in office?

Sanity -> RE: What other evidence has the CIA destroyed? (12/8/2007 5:25:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle The word is "torture". If it's not torture, why haven't you and your family gone through it? That's right. Because it's torture. And that you don't consider the loss of Habeas Corpus to be GRAVE damage says more about you than anything else. It's not torture, farglebargle. And my family... that doesn't even make sense. And we still have habeus corpus, you've been watching too many Michael Moore flicks. quote: WHY? What relevance do the alleged criminal acts of John Kerry have with the alleged criminal acts of a sitting president in office? Mutt was acting as though President Bush is the antiChrist or something, as if the USA used to be pure as preindustrial-age snow. My point is that the President couldn't have done that much damage with harsh interrogation techniques since John Kerry was running around torturing half of Vietnam thirty seven years ago, and then testifying about it on live TV and giving interviews and writing books about how awful the United States is.

philosophy -> RE: What other evidence has the CIA destroyed? (12/8/2007 5:31:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity And we still have habeus corpus ........only for US citizens not accused of something that contravenes the Patriot Act. Non-US citizens just gets to be executed on hearsay evidence. The erosion of due process in the USA is utterly obvious to anyone who isn't fanatically excusing it.

Sanity -> RE: What other evidence has the CIA destroyed? (12/8/2007 5:33:58 PM)
Yeah, we're just executing everyone left and right down here, its almost as bad as if Stalin or Mao were in charge or something phht quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity And we still have habeus corpus ........only for US citizens not accused of something that contravenes the Patriot Act. Non-US citizens just gets to be executed on hearsay evidence. The erosion of due process in the USA is utterly obvious to anyone who isn't fanatically excusing it.

farglebargle -> RE: What other evidence has the CIA destroyed? (12/8/2007 5:38:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle The word is "torture". If it's not torture, why haven't you and your family gone through it? That's right. Because it's torture. And that you don't consider the loss of Habeas Corpus to be GRAVE damage says more about you than anything else. It's not torture, farglebargle. Right. Then let's get together, and you and can consent to the exact same protocols. We can run a betting pool on how long you stand the "Not Torture". In fact, I WILL WAGER FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS that you crack in less than 10 minutes. Put up, or shut up.

mnottertail -> RE: What other evidence has the CIA destroyed? (12/8/2007 5:40:07 PM)
At the very least, American noblesse oblige should say, look---we don't do that kinda shit here, and there should be unanimous lese majeste at these affronts, goddammit we are built on freedom of alot more than ideal I would like to think. We are not the global Okhrana. We are a free and just country by our constitution, and by our collective thought, and we do not need to protect and defend right by impugning some doomsday shit that could happen if we don't stab into every fucking eyeball at our table. some of you people who have never had your ass out of a swivel chair or feet out of a wastebasket make me fuckin' puke. Levrenty Beria

Sanity -> RE: What other evidence has the CIA destroyed? (12/8/2007 6:00:10 PM)
That's probably whatever you're drinkin' My lean mean ass is up out of my swivel chair all the time Has been since I was a kid quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail some of you people who have never had your ass out of a swivel chair or feet out of a wastebasket make me fuckin' puke. Levrenty Beria

mnottertail -> RE: What other evidence has the CIA destroyed? (12/8/2007 6:02:13 PM)
lol, whatever, kid.

farglebargle -> RE: What other evidence has the CIA destroyed? (12/8/2007 6:08:59 PM)
You didn't respond to my challenge, Sanity. You say that waterboarding isn't torture. Fine. Prove it. You can consent to the exact same protocols. You can prove to us all that it's not torture. If you can, then you can go on the Neocon Party Whore lecture circuit -- First Class Airfare... Marriotts... Cadillac and Lincoln Towncars.... And a nice honorarium for sharing your story about how you finally proved to the Libtards that "It's not torture" I bet you crack in less than 10 minutes. Who else wants a piece of this action?

Muttling -> RE: What other evidence has the CIA destroyed? (12/8/2007 6:09:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Mutt was acting as though President Bush is the antiChrist or something, as if the USA used to be pure as preindustrial-age snow. My point is that the President couldn't have done that much damage with harsh interrogation techniques since John Kerry was running around torturing half of Vietnam thirty seven years ago, and then testifying about it on live TV and giving interviews and writing books about how awful the United States is. Actually NO. You are failing to admit to just how bad of a position we are currently in. Our military is stretched to it's limits in a quagmire, international laws have been effectively changed for the purposes of assassination and prisoners, Iran's position of influence has been significantly increased, and the influence of our foreign policy has been significantly decreases. You are comparing John Kerry's claims to have been involved in war crimes to the president's declaration that it is U.S. foreign policy that water boarding and other "agressive techniques" are not torture despite past foreign policy that it is and world wide recognition that it is. Bush is not the anti-Christ. He's an presidential disgrace on par with Jimmy Carter and LBJ.

Sanity -> RE: What other evidence has the CIA destroyed? (12/8/2007 6:15:15 PM)
It's interesting that you claim that you're against doing it to terrorists, but you're so eager see it done now. I guess it's one of those principles that you're perfectly willing to compromise on, if the cause is right. We're almost on the same page now, farglebargle. We can almost see eye-to-eye on this one... quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle You didn't respond to my challenge, Sanity. You say that waterboarding isn't torture. Fine. Prove it. You can consent to the exact same protocols. You can prove to us all that it's not torture. If you can, then you can go on the Neocon Party Whore lecture circuit -- First Class Airfare... Marriotts... Cadillac and Lincoln Towncars.... And a nice honorarium for sharing your story about how you finally proved to the Libtards that "It's not torture" I bet you crack in less than 10 minutes. Who else wants a piece of this action?

mnottertail -> RE: What other evidence has the CIA destroyed? (12/8/2007 6:21:00 PM)
not so goddamn fast there smut peddler- War is criminal on its face, I am a war criminal.......I will never be prosecuted for what I did. I won as it were, and so no courts. You can think JC and LBJ as disgraces, but they had a hell of a lot more class and righteousness however badly misplaced than the coward, evader, awol, shitbreather bush, they actually served their country and did their duty before they sent their sons to war. Not even the same fucking galaxy pal......... Ron

farglebargle -> RE: What other evidence has the CIA destroyed? (12/8/2007 6:22:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity It's interesting that you claim that you're against doing it to terrorists, but you're so eager see it done now. I guess it's one of those principles that you're willing to compromise on, if the cause is right For the record, are you refusing the challenge to voluntarily and with fully informed consent, prove your claim that waterboarding is not torture, by personally undergoing the procedure? And if you are refusing the challenge, why are you refusing it. I've already volunteered to compensate your for the airfare, should you successfully prove your point by sustaining yourself for 10 minutes. So you're out nothing if you can cash the check you wrote with that mouth of yours, and prove what you claim. In fact, given the lucrative financial opportunities recounting your story of how you proved us all wrong, I'm not seeing a downside. IF you're right. And can prove it. The challenge is there -- Take it, or not. Your choice shows clearly your honor and integrity, or lack thereof.

TheHeretic -> RE: What other evidence has the CIA destroyed? (12/8/2007 6:35:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Muttling quote: ORIGINAL: luckydog1 Muttling didn't Sandy Berger simply stick classified material in his pants and walk out to steal it for political reasons? Doesn't sound like Iron clad security to me Yes he did. HOWEVER, what was the level of the security of the items he took? There are multiple levels of classification and the tapes we are discussing would currently rank at the highest level in my opinion. These seem to have been fairly routine daily briefing documents, except that President Clinton was known to scribble all sorts of notes in the margins of them... Wonder what he had to say that was so damaging a former National Security Advisor had to smuggle them out under his balls, and then plead guilty to the crime?

Sanity -> RE: What other evidence has the CIA destroyed? (12/8/2007 7:01:05 PM)
That's a good laugh farglebargle... I've converted you... you'll roll up your sleeves and let the water boarding begin... LOL!!!! You'll gladly water board someone yourself, for the right cause. See? You're just like me now. I'll have you signing the papers to be a fellow Evil Conservative Inc. member in no time!!! (Principles? We don't need no stinkin' principles!!!) LOL!!!!

farglebargle -> RE: What other evidence has the CIA destroyed? (12/8/2007 7:09:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity You'll gladly water board someone yourself, for the right cause. See? You're just like me now. NO. You see. I require your CONSENT. You're willing to do it under color of law. Now, back to the issue to hand.... For the record, are you refusing the challenge to voluntarily and with fully informed consent, prove your claim that waterboarding is not torture, by personally undergoing the procedure? And if you are refusing the challenge, why are you refusing it. I've already volunteered to compensate your for the airfare, should you successfully prove your point by sustaining yourself for 10 minutes. You're out nothing if you can cash the check you wrote with that mouth of yours, and prove what you claim. In fact, given the lucrative financial opportunities recounting your story of how you proved us all wrong, I'm not seeing a downside. IF you're right. And can prove it. The challenge is there -- Take it, or not. Your choice shows clearly your honor and integrity, or lack thereof.

Sanity -> RE: What other evidence has the CIA destroyed? (12/8/2007 7:10:38 PM)
Nah, you don't believe it's so bad if you're willing to do it. You've already established that, you've outsmarted yourself.

farglebargle -> RE: What other evidence has the CIA destroyed? (12/8/2007 7:23:48 PM)
This isn't about me. I do many things which, without consent, would certainly be considered torture, and perhaps unlawful in some jurisdictions. Of course, I am not an agent, or employee of the Government, nor have I ever sworn an oath to protect and defend the Republic, the Constitution, and the Laws of the United States. Anything I choose to participate in is done with fully informed consent. So the standards of behaviour are quite different between me, a private individual, and someone in the service of the Government, acting under color of law, violating the principles of Due Process and Equal Protection. Let me remind everyone, this is about YOU and your absurd claims about waterboarding people which was, to quote you directly , "It's not torture, farglebargle. " So, you don't think it's torture. Great. Prove it. For the record, are you refusing the challenge to voluntarily and with fully informed consent, prove your claim that waterboarding is not torture, by personally undergoing the procedure? And if you are refusing the challenge, why are you refusing it. P.S.: Hey, bystanders, would you come to the Marriott's event room to witness something like this? We can do it as the centerpiece of the BiMonSciFiCon or something...

Sanity -> RE: What other evidence has the CIA destroyed? (12/8/2007 7:29:32 PM)
I don't swing that way farglebargle Thanks for the offer though quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle This isn't about me. I do many things which, without consent, would certainly be considered torture, and perhaps unlawful in some jurisdictions. Of course, I am not an agent, or employee of the Government, nor have I ever sworn an oath to protect and defend the Republic, the Constitution, and the Laws of the United States. Anything I choose to participate in is done with fully informed consent. So the standards of behaviour are quite different between me, a private individual, and someone in the service of the Government, acting under color of law, violating the principles of Due Process and Equal Protection. Let me remind everyone, this is about YOU and your absurd claims about waterboarding people which was, to quote you directly , "It's not torture, farglebargle. " So, you don't think it's torture. Great. Prove it. For the record, are you refusing the challenge to voluntarily and with fully informed consent, prove your claim that waterboarding is not torture, by personally undergoing the procedure? And if you are refusing the challenge, why are you refusing it.

farglebargle -> RE: What other evidence has the CIA destroyed? (12/8/2007 7:31:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity I don't swing that way farglebargle What way? The way where you prove your absurd claims? or The way you retract your absurd claims? or The way you dissemble and prevaricate, weaseling around. Like I've said. The challenge is there -- Take it, or not. Your choice shows clearly your honor and integrity, or lack thereof.

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