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RE: Connecting the dots. Obama. - 9/6/2008 6:47:14 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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~FR~

Didn't even Hillary call him a Socialist?

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RE: Connecting the dots. Obama. - 9/6/2008 7:51:50 PM   
cloudboy


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Its easier to get into character issues about Obama, than it is to explain $2 Trillion in Debt issued to China and two sink-hole-ish wars started by the the powers that be.

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RE: Connecting the dots. Obama. - 9/6/2008 7:55:09 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
Its easier to get into character issues about Obama, than it is to explain $2 Trillion in Debt issued to China and two sink-hole-ish wars started by the the powers that be.

Since when is calling someone a socialist a "character issue"?




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RE: Connecting the dots. Obama. - 9/6/2008 8:52:20 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Nothing to retract, you and others have implied it quite often.

I have never called you a fsacist or implied it in any post. I know this because I deplore that behavior and will not engage in it myself. Either prove your assertion or retract it.

quote:

So his policies, and positions are not socialistic?  Cool, what definition do you have of the word?

Socialism is an economic model where the government, or "society," owns the means of production. So precisely when did Obama advocate the US take over GM or Boeing or Microsoft or any other company or industry?

quote:

Are you suggesting that Obama didn't receive anything?  OR that Rezko didn't? 

Obama clearly did in various donations that were funneled to him and other politicing, that has already been admitted to by both sides of that relationship.

So you're claiming the quid pro quo was in campaign donations? How much was donated compared tohow much was raised for each campaign. Then show me the acts those donations got. I've seen a bunch of stuff Rezko did that may have been attempts to curry favor but I've seen nothing shopwing Obama ever did anything signiciant beyond stuff every elected official does for business people in their districts. Supporting building a senior citizen building isn't going to be enough.

But of course you have the uncanny ability to perceive the word fascist out of thin air so it is obvious your powers of perception are beyond me so I'm sure you find the rest of your accusations quite convincing. I on the otherhand have looked at all the claims before, as I'm sure has a federal prosecutor, and there isn't anything there.

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RE: Connecting the dots. Obama. - 9/6/2008 8:59:22 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

So precisely when did Obama advocate the US take over GM or Boeing or Microsoft or any other company or industry?

Healthcare.  It's in his "plan".


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RE: Connecting the dots. Obama. - 9/6/2008 9:01:21 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

So precisely when did Obama advocate the US take over GM or Boeing or Microsoft or any other company or industry?

Healthcare.  It's in his "plan".


He's going to have government take over every hospital and employ every doctor? Really? or perhaps you're exagerating?

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RE: Connecting the dots. Obama. - 9/6/2008 9:04:43 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

So precisely when did Obama advocate the US take over GM or Boeing or Microsoft or any other company or industry?

Healthcare.  It's in his "plan".


He's going to have government take over every hospital and employ every doctor? Really? or perhaps you're exagerating?

Summarizing.  If the government takes over health insurance, how far off is that from taking over every hospital?

Obama's not an avowed socialist, but his ideas of income redistribution and "economic justice" are undeniably socialist in nature.  Enough so that calling him a socialist is pretty close to the mark.


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RE: Connecting the dots. Obama. - 9/6/2008 9:17:45 PM   
Sanity


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There's been a lot of rumbling lately about nationalizing the energy sector too. And with Obama, I get the feeling he leans a lot further left than he currently lets on.


quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

So precisely when did Obama advocate the US take over GM or Boeing or Microsoft or any other company or industry?

Healthcare.  It's in his "plan".



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RE: Connecting the dots. Obama. - 9/6/2008 11:07:28 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

It hasn't stopped you or others in the past. 

Post where I called you or anyone a fascist or retract this.

I guess depending on your perspective and how you wish to read what Thadius wrote, you can choose to believe he said you called him a fascist, but that's not how I read it.

He wrote "you OR others" .... which does not categorically include you.

Firm

edited for ... snideness

< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 9/6/2008 11:19:05 PM >


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RE: Connecting the dots. Obama. - 9/7/2008 12:26:45 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

It hasn't stopped you or others in the past. 

Post where I called you or anyone a fascist or retract this.

I guess depending on your perspective and how you wish to read what Thadius wrote, you can choose to believe he said you called him a fascist, but that's not how I read it.

He wrote "you OR others" .... which does not categorically include you.

Firm

edited for ... snideness

He then later clarified that he felt I had implied that he was a facist. Which is absurd. If I want to call someone something I do it and take my lumps from the mods.

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RE: Connecting the dots. Obama. - 9/7/2008 12:53:53 AM   
blacksword404


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Greetings Thadius

I remember the whole hired truck scandal because it pertains to my job. Good ole governor ryan and his people were out there selling CDL's for quite a bit of money. I remember they had to retest all the drivers granted CDL's during that period. But then again it is the land of Al Capone. The gangsters still live.


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RE: Connecting the dots. Obama. - 9/7/2008 8:06:19 AM   
corysub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Its easier to get into character issues about Obama, than it is to explain $2 Trillion in Debt issued to China and two sink-hole-ish wars started by the the powers that be.


Not that it's a good thing, but just to keep the record straight, China owns a bit under a trillion of U.S. debt.
Still a huge number and making them the second largest creditor to the USA.  However, unless you expect the
government to put tariffs on goods from China, clothing, toys, garden implements, plasticware, knives, spoons
and just about everthing the U.S. consumer uses can be, and a lot of it is, made in China cheaper.  Maybe our
unions have something to also do with driving jobs offshore and why union membership is at historic single digits.
First jobs were driven from the North to cheaper production in the South. Than on to Mexico, Central and South America, former Soviet controlled countries, Japan, and now to China..the biggest gorilla on the block.  Buying
goods from China has saved American consumers hundreds of billions but at a cost.  Who reading this has never
been to Costco, Sams Club, BJ' (the warehouse..not he other thing  :)) ..or department stores looking for value
priced items?  The cost of these cheaper goods is reflected in the balance of trade deficit shown with China.
Obviusly, Bush is blamed for ALL of this...the rest of the country is innocent.   Sure!

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL34314.pdf

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As far as the two wars, now that the surge is working and CNN & MSNBC can't give us those horrible daily body count of our fallen warriors, and so the press is on to bashing a Mom running for VP and her ability to raise her children.  Not the sink hole issues that sink America as those on the left continue to rant and rave.  The problem with the democrat party is a lack of vision and act only on the latest polls (last year it was Iraq..this year energy (windmills and better tire pressure being their solution), and currently the economy.  If anyone has a view on next years headline you will be six months ahead of next years democrat party focus.  Hey..that might be an interesting thread!

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RE: Connecting the dots. Obama. - 9/7/2008 8:14:12 AM   
bestbabync


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GREAT JOB CORY SUB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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RE: Connecting the dots. Obama. - 9/7/2008 8:45:32 AM   
xXLithiumXx


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 Wow...Some how some way I see that some of us are still under the misguided idea that we actually do live in a democracy. 

If that was the case, would bills that change the structure of this nation be worked on, passed or dismissed each day in Washington?

While Obama is the subject of the hot seat on this thread, I think  its important to mention that for quite some time now, candidates have been accepting contributions from less than appealing backers and in quite more questionable ways.  Sadly, this has been the way of things for a while. Lobby-ists in Washington for Senate do the same thing, in some way or another. Be it strippers, steak dinners, trips, what have you thats the way of things anywhere in the world. You work for money...so everything in life is about a quid pro quo... At least in my opinion. Maybe Im too simplistic in the way I look at things.

On the flip side of Obama is McCain. Do some reading on the Keating thing. Do some more reading on who backs him and how he wants to be able to accept "soft money".

For that matter do some reading on any president and see where the money came from.

Its not just Obama. Tho, I think in all honesty his may be more in the open than any one else's which I wonder...if its in the open is it as sinister as if it were in the closet like some others?

Just my thoughts, and like I said...maybe Im thinking too simply maybe theres more to it than meets the eye.

But I have to agree. Its Chicago...land of Al Capone and Lucky Luciano...what did you expect?

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RE: Connecting the dots. Obama. - 9/7/2008 8:52:26 AM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

Greetings Thadius

I remember the whole hired truck scandal because it pertains to my job. Good ole governor ryan and his people were out there selling CDL's for quite a bit of money. I remember they had to retest all the drivers granted CDL's during that period. But then again it is the land of Al Capone. The gangsters still live.



I remember the same thing, and had to go down to 95th to retest... after they closed the other testing facility over in McCook.

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RE: Connecting the dots. Obama. - 9/7/2008 9:04:32 AM   
Jeffff


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The Rezko thing DOES bother me. So does Mayor Daley and Gov. Rob............. maybe after all these years
in Chicago I am  numb to it?

We also have cops beateing up 100 lb bartenders and business men from out of town too.

Dennis Hastert was no prize either. the list is endless.

No wonder I am cynical.;)

Jeff

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RE: Connecting the dots. Obama. - 9/7/2008 9:31:50 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

Wow...Some how some way I see that some of us are still under the misguided idea that we actually do live in a democracy.

We don't.  We live in a democratic republic.


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RE: Connecting the dots. Obama. - 9/7/2008 9:36:28 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xXLithiumXx

Wow...Some how some way I see that some of us are still under the misguided idea that we actually do live in a democracy. 



National establishments can't maintain power in true democracies that is why democratic countries tend not to be true democracies and their constitutions tend to be conservative documents that skew power in favour of the establishment, like the American constitution. (and most other national constitutions)

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 9/7/2008 9:37:03 AM >


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RE: Connecting the dots. Obama. - 9/7/2008 10:04:27 AM   
Thadius


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I see folks asking for exact dollar ammounts on the donation front.  The problem with an exact dollar ammount is that even the Obama campaign keeps changing it.

In Jan when this was breaking they claimed it was

quote:

The Daily Herald reported Jan 20, 2008:
WASHINGTON -- Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama is giving charity more than $40,000 in past political contributions linked to Chicago real estate developer and fast-food magnate Antoin "Tony" Rezko, who is facing federal corruption charges, his campaign said Saturday.


Then it moved to $100k and then to about $150k then to this in March...

quote:

  ABC reported  March 14, 2008: 

Antoin "Tony" Rezko, on trial for corruption, raised roughly $250,000 for Obama -- more than $100,000 more than had been previously discovered by enterprising reporters.
Obama also admitted that he made repeated lapses in judgement by involving Rezko in a complex house purchase, the paper reports.


As of June, the Obama campaign is still estimating that they only received around $60k from Rezko fundraising and donations.  The facts show differently.

Ah, and how about specific favors for Obama?  Possible violations of FEC rules?

quote:

The Sun Times reported June 18, 2007:

Burton said Obama can only estimate how much money Rezko has raised for him. Obama's staff, he said, only knows of one fund-raiser Rezko hosted for Obama -- a June 27, 2003, cocktail party at Rezko's mansion.
Sources close to both Rezko and Obama, however, said Rezko raised money often for Obama.
Burton said Friday the campaign was sticking by its original estimate that Rezko raised no more than $60,000.
The cocktail party Rezko hosted in 2003 came at a critical time for Obama. He and Rezko timed it to help Obama show he had enough money to compete in the Democratic primary for U.S. Senate against millionaire Blair Hull and state Comptroller Dan Hynes.
"This was discussed a lot. They wanted to have a good showing," said a source familiar with the fund-raiser, speaking on condition of anonymity.
"Tony was one of the biggest fund-raisers."
At the time of the party, the state was in the process of foreclosing on a low-income apartment building Rezko's company rehabbed in Obama's state Senate district -- a rehab project on which Obama's law firm worked. Rezko had also abandoned many other low-income apartments, leaving numerous vacant units in need of major repairs.
Rezko was indicted in October 2006 in unrelated fraud schemes.
Between 75 and 80 people attended Rezko's cocktail party, according to Burton, but he said the campaign has no list of the guests.
More than half a dozen people who were there said between 100 and 150 guests were treated to an open bar and food served by Jewell Events Catering, run by renowned Chicago caterer George Jewell. Valets parked cars for the guests, who each were asked to donate at least $1,000.
Rezko picked up the tab. The exact cost of the party has never been disclosed to the Federal Election Commission, which allows hosts to pay up to $2,000 for fund-raisers held in their homes and not report the expense. If a party costs more than $2,000, the candidate must tell the FEC about it.
Burton said, based on a conversation a former Obama staff member had with Rezko, that the party didn't cost more than $2,000.
Three days after the cocktail party, Obama got donations from several Rezko associates, Obama's campaign records show.


That is just one such example.  Folks like to ignore how Tony pulled off all of his various schemes...  Simply, by getting folks appointed to various boards, laundering money through other folks, kickbacks, bribes, and using insiders to mold policy so that he benefitted.  Claiming that Obama was just a naive, innocent, and unwitting pawn, says at least one thing.  It says that either Obama is not bright enough to realize what is or was going on, or that all of his board appointments, votes, legislation, letters written on behalf of Tony, and support is all just coincidence.

I am waiting for a detailed look into contributions under $100, if that data is even possible to parse through.  Just saying that if I wanted to donate more money to a particular candidate, I would go the route of small donations via straw and fake names, as opposed to all of those dishwashers making minimum wage that donated the max allowable under law to the Clinton campaign.

Obama not mentioned in the Rezko trial? Interesting, as documents become unsealed that Obama seems to be coming up more and more....
http://media1.suntimes.com/multimedia/obamarez062708.pdf_20080627_00_31_25_90.imageContent 

Tony, will probably act like a standup guy in some sort of deal and not mention names.  However, the various paper trails are opening up, folks are speaking up, and if you think Gov. Rod is gonna keep his mouth shut, only time will tell.

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RE: Connecting the dots. Obama. - 9/7/2008 10:27:01 AM   
Simpleslave101


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Go get'm Tadius!!!

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