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RE: Pizza Of The Future - 8/15/2009 3:12:04 PM   
Sanity


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That is simply not true at all.

And wasn't referring only to the town hall chaos, as you seem to think.


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

And you've already been given numerous links by numerous people, including myself, to prove that these weren't people wanting an honest debate but people encouraged to cause disruptions as  part of an organized multi-millionaire
dollar anti-health reform campaign by business interests who fear loss of revenue.




< Message edited by Sanity -- 8/15/2009 3:30:21 PM >


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RE: Pizza Of The Future - 8/15/2009 3:48:21 PM   
Termyn8or


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If I walk into Metro General right now, I have no verifiable income for the past few years. All I need to say is that I have been living off of someone else, when the truth is not quite that, to say the least.

Once I get "rated", I can get a quadruple bypass, knee surgery, cataracts surgery, and in some cases plastic surgery. I will get no bill.

Now mind you that is not what I want and I don't think it is nice to take when one does not give. IF I go see a doctor, at least the first time, I will pay for it. But those who can't still have the option I mentioned. It is a public hospital, they already provide free care for those who can't afford it. I would imagine there is one like it in almost every major city in the US.

So what is really to be gained ? I want to pay because I want that doctor to work for me. If I can't, beggars can't be choosers. The olman went that route. If they had upped his SS check by about two bucks his medical rating at Metro would be a number lower, and it would cost him more than that on a copay. He was getting probably twenty bucks worth of medication for about six dollars.

And if they would've lowered his SS check a bit he might be able to get SSI, and not only the medicare he got, but medicaid as well. You'll find alot of the poor, retirees, even the homeless at Metro. They are already doing it.

The whole problem is actually any form of insurance. Insurance is what drove up prices for medical care to the point where average people cannot afford to pay. If market forces were really in full play, all of this would not be so expensive, and people might be able to pay. I bet they would watch their health a bit more closely.

Kinda like walking into a new car dealrship, remember there is no such thing as insurance. People would refuse to buy cars for which a replacement taillight lens costs $500. And that's for a piece of plastic. Couldn't they amortize the cost of that mold during production ? I think they did and they are just gouging.

And the people who make money doing that affect the whole economy. It causes a basic shift in the balance of the market forces. Do you really think a million dollar mansion is worth it ? Hell no, that's why some people have them built.

Yes indeed it has trickled down, but my argument is that it was never a good thing and never will be. And it goes around. A twelve cent transistor for a CAT scanner might cost $120. It has gone that far. But for the last few genertaions we've been taking the easy way out. We have wrought this ourselves, with some exceptions.

But like a few other societal ills coming to manifest, the time is too late for prevention. Any ideas out there ?

T

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RE: Pizza Of The Future - 8/15/2009 3:51:04 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Sad, funny, scary: Orwellian Pizza, coming soon!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNJl9EEcsoE


This is so old and ridiculous it's not even funny anymore. It was clever maybe back in 2000 (or perhaps earlier) when it first appeared in text form. Now it's just lame.

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RE: Pizza Of The Future - 8/15/2009 3:52:09 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

You know, its kind of funny that you don't trust the government to be able to run a health insurance plan, but you attribute to them the ability to manage a huge conspiracy to take control of every aspect of your life....which is it, are they bumbling fools or are they scheming masterminds....it can't be both.


I've often said this. Nicely done.


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RE: Pizza Of The Future - 8/15/2009 3:53:17 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
It's very funny. This video was produced to oppose Bush administration ant privacy initiatives, realID etc., and now someone who supported all of that stuff back then quite passionately is now trying to use it to attack an administration he doesn't like.





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RE: Pizza Of The Future - 8/15/2009 3:55:34 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
An honest debate is all people are asking for, and we're being told from the very top that if we disagree with the government, we need to be quiet.


That's because despite what those people may think, shouting at someone incessantly as they try and talk is *not* honest debate. Honest debate is a conversation wherein two opposing sides thoughtfully explain their view points. Shouting everytime the other guy tries to talk is something we did in kindergarten apparently some never grew out of it.


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RE: Pizza Of The Future - 8/15/2009 6:18:47 PM   
MarsBonfire


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They can't help it... Most of the "Death Eaters" (as they are now being called) were brought up on a steady diet of Jerry Springer. So they think that's the way public discourse is supposed to be.

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RE: Pizza Of The Future - 8/15/2009 7:00:55 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire
They can't help it... Most of the "Death Eaters" (as they are now being called) were brought up on a steady diet of Jerry Springer. So they think that's the way public discourse is supposed to be.


Indeed. Still, certain talk radio hosts like to point to what was done during the Iraq invasion and use that to label the dems as hypocrits. I am not sure I see it that way. You see, in that instance, there were too stances...not much ground for effective debate. We were already invading -- that's one stance. And the other stance was those who wanted it stopped immediately. There's not much chance for a meaningful chat when you have two sides vehemently wanting such vastly different outcomes.

In 'this' instance, however, there's a wide-room for conversation. Yet conversation can't happen if one side does nothing but shout at the other, especially when 'that side' has YET to come up with a better idea. Basically, they don't have a better idea, they just don't like that one. So instead of 'discussing' it, they shout like a toddler.


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RE: Pizza Of The Future - 8/15/2009 7:03:01 PM   
Brain


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Ridiculous isn't it? Bush passes Patriot Act suspends the Bill of Rights and not a peep out of them and now we get this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

It's very funny. This video was produced to oppose Bush administration ant privacy initiatives, realID etc., and now someone who supported all of that stuff back then quite passionately is now trying to use it to attack an administration he doesn't like.


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RE: Pizza Of The Future - 8/15/2009 8:41:36 PM   
Sanity


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Bush never suspended the Bill Of Rights, I wonder where you get this stuff sometimes.

And President Bush didn't pass the Patriot Act, Congress did, and the Dems voted overwhelmingly in favor of it. What was it, I think one single Democrat voted against it, right?

So the party that's in power now voted in favor of it.

And it had a sunset clause...

Small change compared to Obama adding Tax protesters and Gun Rights groups and other political dissenters to his DHS Terrorist watch List.

Very Nixonian.

Very Big Brother, too.

I wonder if the NRA ever orders pizza?

Then there are all the Czars, who report only to Obama.

Maybe Obama'll get a Pizza Czar next.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

Ridiculous isn't it? Bush passes Patriot Act suspends the Bill of Rights and not a peep out of them and now we get this.



< Message edited by Sanity -- 8/15/2009 8:42:23 PM >


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RE: Pizza Of The Future - 8/15/2009 9:53:39 PM   
Sanity


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quote:


Homeland Security Detects Terrorist Threats by Reading Your Mind

Baggage searches are SOOOOOO early-21st century. Homeland Security is now testing the next generation of security screening — a body scanner that can read your mind.

Most preventive screening looks for explosives or metals that pose a threat. But a new system called MALINTENT turns the old school approach on its head. This Orwellian-sounding machine detects the person — not the device — set to wreak havoc and terror.

MALINTENT, the brainchild of the cutting-edge Human Factors division in Homeland Security's directorate for Science and Technology, searches your body for non-verbal cues that predict whether you mean harm to your fellow passengers.

It has a series of sensors and imagers that read your body temperature, heart rate and respiration for unconscious tells invisible to the naked eye — signals terrorists and criminals may display in advance of an attack.

But this is no polygraph test. Subjects do not get hooked up or strapped down for a careful reading; those sensors do all the work without any actual physical contact. It's like an X-ray for bad intentions.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,426485,00.html


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RE: Pizza Of The Future - 8/15/2009 9:59:36 PM   
Sanity


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quote:

Chicago Moving to 'Smart' Surveillance Cameras

CHICAGO, Sept. 20 (2004) - A highly advanced system of video surveillance that Chicago officials plan to install by 2006 will make people here some of the most closely observed in the world. Mayor Richard M. Daley says it will also make them much safer.

"Cameras are the equivalent of hundreds of sets of eyes," Mr. Daley said when he unveiled the new project this month. "They're the next best thing to having police officers stationed at every potential trouble spot."

Police specialists here can already monitor live footage from about 2,000 surveillance cameras around the city, so the addition of 250 cameras under the mayor's new plan is not a great jump. The way these cameras will be used, however, is an extraordinary technological leap.

Sophisticated new computer programs will immediately alert the police whenever anyone viewed by any of the cameras placed at buildings and other structures considered terrorist targets wanders aimlessly in circles, lingers outside a public building, pulls a car onto the shoulder of a highway, or leaves a package and walks away from it. Images of those people will be highlighted in color at the city's central monitoring station, allowing dispatchers to send police officers to the scene immediately.

Officials here designed the system after studying the video surveillance network in London, which became a world leader in this technology during the period when Irish terrorists were active. The Chicago officials also studied systems used in Las Vegas casinos, as well as those used by Army combat units. The system they have devised, they say, will be the most sophisticated in the United States and perhaps the world.


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/21/national/21cameras.html


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RE: Pizza Of The Future - 8/15/2009 10:15:42 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

An honest debate is all people are asking for, and we're being told from the very top that if we disagree with the government, we need to be quiet.  ORIGINAL: Sanity



No...you're being asked not to shout down speakers, walk around with swastika posters painting those in favor he health care as nazis and to stop with terms that are clearly non-sense such as "Government Death Panels" and my personal favorite "Mandated Abortion". They are saying that those who cannot control themselves enough to give reasoned debate are not advancing free speech. All the rest is spin.


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RE: Pizza Of The Future - 8/16/2009 7:39:58 AM   
Sanity


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Yeah, I know, we've heard it all before. It's a good thing that you posted it again though, because in keeping with the Big Brother theme of this thread, this sort of doublespeak which our government leaders (and you on the extreme left) are currently engaging in fits right in.

I say doublespeak because, during the Bush administration, the far left loved to claim that dissent was the highest form of patriotism.

Remember that?

http://www.blogher.com/so-dissent-still-highest-form-patriotism

But now that the far left is in power, dissent has been redefined as something completely "un-American" hasn't it. To back that assertion up we have your quote down below of course, in which you do your very best to demonize anyone who dares to dissent, which is perfectly in lockstep with our government leaders such as,

President Barack Obama, who says that anyone who disagrees with the government needs to shut up:

http://www.breitbart.tv/obama-dont-want-the-folks-who-created-the-mess-to-do-a-lot-of-talking/

Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, who calls protesters "Evil Mongers":

http://briefingroom.thehill.com/2009/08/13/reid-protesters-are-evil-mongers/

Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Democratic House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer who together wrote an op/ed article in the USA Today calling protesters "un-American" (maybe Obama needs a Town Hall Czar To Prevent Un-American Activities)?

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/08/top-house-democrats-call-town-hall-disruptions-unamerican.html

Nancy Pelosi also insists that the protesters are carrying swastikas:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/08/05/pelosi_town_hall_protesters_are_carrying_swastikas.html

So we can clearly see that Big Brother has redefined dissent. No longer is it the highest form of patriotism - oh, hell no.

Dissenters are Nazis now...

Good job Barack Obama, way to lead the country in a debate!



quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales
No...you're being asked not to shout down speakers, walk around with swastika posters painting those in favor he health care as nazis and to stop with terms that are clearly non-sense such as "Government Death Panels" and my personal favorite "Mandated Abortion". They are saying that those who cannot control themselves enough to give reasoned debate are not advancing free speech. All the rest is spin.




Yeah - not exactly the kind of honest debate I was hoping for.


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RE: Pizza Of The Future - 8/18/2009 3:50:19 AM   
Sanity


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What were you saying about angry mobs?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D74Xs1VuYAE


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RE: Pizza Of The Future - 8/18/2009 4:00:33 AM   
Loki45


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And that's relevant how?

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