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RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/10/2011 9:23:31 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

Why?


Without a beginning there can be no present that's why.

quote:

Actually this isn't a fact, it is a supposition of some models of expansion. What we DO know is that everything is moving away from us. From that a theory of an expanding universe has been developed. However, since nobody really knows what the universe is like, we don't know how it's expanding. there are various models to choose from.


I believe this is an observable...measurable...verifiable...accepted...proven fact. Not the why or how but a fact non the less.

quote:

Look, the universe is weird, really, amazingly, mind-bogglingly weird. It works by totally separate set of rules that we barely understand. We know nothing for sure about how the universe actually works, or why. We have a lot of ideas, theories and models, but we don't know what is right.


I agree with you...none of us here have any idea or the expertise to even comment intelligently on the subject... We are all just repeating what we have heard with little to no understanding of the science involved. I am just trying to wrap my mind around possibilities and claim no weight to my comments over anyone else’s.

Butch



< Message edited by kdsub -- 8/10/2011 9:24:30 PM >

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RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/10/2011 9:44:35 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


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quote:

Without a beginning there can be no present that's why.
I don't see the connection. What does the present have to do with a beginning?

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RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/10/2011 10:11:29 PM   
Awareness


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Status: offline 		  One of the various implications of string theory is not the big bang followed by the big crunch, but a big bounce.  From what I can remember, two of the dimensions implicit in the Calabi-Yau model of space (9 dimensional if I remember correctly) end up inverting so the space essentially transforms and the massive gravity ends up flinging the matter back out.

I don't believe it would repeat - for two reasons.  Firstly that chaos theory implies that micro-variations in the placement and energy levels of matter would cause significantly larger variations down the line.  Second, quantum foam.  Empty space is a seething mass of quantum activity with an overall level that is close to zero but with numbers of particle pairs spontaneously appearing, travelling for a short while, then mutually annihilating.

If there's anything truly random in the universe, quantum activity may very well be it.  And that quantum foam can interact with the rest of the matter in the universe to have tangible results.

For example.  Black holes.  Black holes are 'hot'.  Despite the fact that nothing can escape them, they radiate.  How they do this, is entirely due to quantum effects.  My apologies to Steven Hawking for the following approximation from memory.

Imagine you have the normal frenetic quantum activity occurring just on the border of the event horizon.  A particle pair appears (particle and antiparticle), travels for a bit, then the antiparticle encounters the event horizon.  It spirals in and gives a corresponding kick in the opposite direction to its partner.  The partner escapes, the captured anti-particle spirals down and annihilates in the black hole, the remaining particle flies out into the universe.  As a consequence, the black hole gets a little smaller and appears to emit a particle.  Freaky, ain't it.

Anyway, so I'd go for a no on the infinite repeat thing.  Plus, I'd like to think that something capable of agency will survive the big crunch/bounce/trampoline.  The idea of a universe with intent pleases me.


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RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/10/2011 11:21:07 PM   
Edwynn


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Spacetime is curved?

Really?


Wow ....












< Message edited by Edwynn -- 8/10/2011 11:22:54 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/11/2011 7:08:57 AM   
Icarys


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quote:

Merriam-Webster gives a different definition.

While you're sleeping (Both figuratively speaking and literally perhaps), I'll add this bit and then I'm done.

Do you mean this one?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/norseman

I've already agreed to disagree and have even stated that it may very well be used differently in your country, most likely the use has been changed more recently in modern times but I would say the world probably uses the older and much more recognized attachment to the word.

All of the rest I'll file between P-U, that's about where all of the fluffy words and redirects belong I think.

It's okay though, we all like a little fantasy, it makes life fun.

I have to say...This whole little debate and the one going on in the other thread makes me wonder if you're feeling okay. It's rather clumsy of you. Maybe you're not used to people challenging you, especially about your own culture and are a little unprepared.

Anyway, I'm outta here. *Clang Clang*

< Message edited by Icarys -- 8/11/2011 7:19:48 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/11/2011 7:19:05 AM   
Icarys


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quote:

Actually, the theory with the most predictive power is the most valid one.

All else being equal between two theories, the one with the least assumptions is the more attractive one.

One last thing..Although this mat seem true, I think Einstein was working with only one piece of the puzzle. I personally believe that there are multiple laws yet realised that may well make the human race have to rethink the ones now used.

Now before you say absurd, there are a few new scientists that have similar views and are knocking at the door of new discoveries. Of course at this time, who knows for sure.

I think we'll find as we actually get further into space (if we make it that is without killing everything on the planet) we'll see things that we could have never have predicted.

All I'm saying here is don't be so sure that one theory even if it works out in the lab is the law of the rest of the universe.


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Profile   Post #: 86
RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/11/2011 9:43:41 AM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

We know that the universe is expanding, and if you travel away from a point along a curved path, you will eventually end up where you began.




Oh please don't tell me you actually said that.

If there is any motion or time involved, one could arrive at the point started from only if the universe held to a perfectly constrained motion.


But you were just seeing if we were awake, right?






< Message edited by Edwynn -- 8/11/2011 10:04:41 AM >

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RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/11/2011 10:33:44 AM   
Arpig


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Status: offline 		Cripes Fast Eddy, are you ever going to understand anything at all? Ever? Even once? It would be so refreshing.

Note the thread title...a CRAZY idea.

It's not a theory, its a random thought that popped into her head, and even at that its a damn sight better than the sum total of everything that you have posted on this site.



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RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/11/2011 10:41:25 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

Merriam-Webster gives a different definition. Wiktionary notes it as uncommon in reference to modern times. Norwegian is a demonym, while norseman is an ethnonym, and correct as used. Norse-American is a dated word, comparable to the word African-American, and illustrative of the validity of making the reference, and the reason for wondering if you admit the validity of the latter of those two. Scandinavian is both demonymic and ethnonymic, but would have been more cumbersome in the contested text.

And, yes, I'm generally a civil fella, so with the above, the defense rests.

Further insults can be filed under appendix ZZzz..

Health,
al-Aswad.




I prefer to label myself a Norwo-American.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnpaPGHFsL4

Har det bra, al-Aswad !!!!!!

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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/11/2011 2:16:40 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
It's not a theory, its a random thought that popped into her head, ...



Ohhh rigghht ...

Yeah, like one of those "what if the universe was square?" thingies.

I completely missed that, sorry.





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RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/22/2011 8:48:05 PM   
snappykappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

A few weeks ago Hanners, Suze and I were talking about space and time <yes, we do talk about some strange things>, and Hanners mentioned that she had heard some scientist on the radio talking about how spacetime was curved. That struck me as interesting and significant idea, so it stuck in my head. Then, on this thread http://www.collarchat.com/m_3800352/tm.htm somebody asked what had happened before the Big Bang and I had this sudden crazy idea.

We know that the universe is expanding, and if you travel away from a point along a curved path, you will eventually end up where you began. So maybe, the universe expands until it curves back in on itself and collapses into the singularity thus causing a new Big Bang. That’s not my crazy idea; I’ve heard that idea before somewhere or other.

My idea is that if time is curved as well, then the universe will eventually come around to when it began as well. So what was before the Big Bang was the universe. Not a different universe, but this one. There is only one Big Bang, only one universe, happening over and over again on a loop. Sort of like a cosmic Groundhog Day

This brings up all sorts of interesting ideas and questions, like “Does it repeat itself exactly, or is it different each time?” and “Have I existed before?”

Now you know why I don’t need to do drugs.

So, what do you think about my crazy idea?




http://www.wimp.com/timerelativity/

http://www.wimp.com/earthyear/

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RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/23/2011 4:02:54 AM   
MalcolmNathaniel


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Status: offline 		You're all wrong. The world sits on the back of four elephants which stand on the back of a turtle.

And don't try to fool me with asking, "What does the turtle stand on?"

Because I know that turtles swim.

(edited for spelling)

< Message edited by MalcolmNathaniel -- 8/23/2011 4:03:50 AM >

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RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/23/2011 4:11:16 AM   
KMsAngel


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RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/23/2011 7:43:31 AM   
HannahLynHeather


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Status: offline 		yea, but WHEN does it swim?

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RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/23/2011 8:10:27 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

A few weeks ago Hanners, Suze and I were talking about space and time <yes, we do talk about some strange things>, and Hanners mentioned that she had heard some scientist on the radio talking about how spacetime was curved. That struck me as interesting and significant idea, so it stuck in my head. Then, on this thread http://www.collarchat.com/m_3800352/tm.htm somebody asked what had happened before the Big Bang and I had this sudden crazy idea.

We know that the universe is expanding, and if you travel away from a point along a curved path, you will eventually end up where you began. So maybe, the universe expands until it curves back in on itself and collapses into the singularity thus causing a new Big Bang. That’s not my crazy idea; I’ve heard that idea before somewhere or other.

My idea is that if time is curved as well, then the universe will eventually come around to when it began as well. So what was before the Big Bang was the universe. Not a different universe, but this one. There is only one Big Bang, only one universe, happening over and over again on a loop. Sort of like a cosmic Groundhog Day

This brings up all sorts of interesting ideas and questions, like “Does it repeat itself exactly, or is it different each time?” and “Have I existed before?”

Now you know why I don’t need to do drugs.

So, what do you think about my crazy idea?



I actually was the very first person to postulate this concept (1977 if I recall).

There's only one problem....it all comes back to...."no matter where you are....there you are".

(Just a quick afterthought.....you should probably do drugs).


< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 8/23/2011 8:14:45 PM >

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RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/23/2011 8:12:58 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
I think we'll find as we actually get further into space (if we make it that is without killing everything on the planet) we'll see things that we could have never have predicted.



No shit.

(Wish I woulda said that...but then....who woulda predicted it?).

< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 8/23/2011 8:13:29 PM >

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RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/23/2011 8:15:45 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


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quote:

I actually was the very first person to postulate this concept (1977 if I recall).
But you didn't publish and I did! You snooze you lose. Neener, neener, neener!

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RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/23/2011 8:16:01 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

quote:

Without a beginning there can be no present that's why.
I don't see the connection. What does the present have to do with a beginning?


Now I'm even more certain of my last presumption.

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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/23/2011 8:18:40 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/23/2011 8:20:13 PM   
HannahLynHeather


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quote:

(Just a quick afterthought.....you should probably do drugs).
oh fuck no! this is one of her less bizarre ideas, believe me, the last fucking thing we need is heather stoned!

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Profile   Post #: 100
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