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stormy66 -> RE: New York Shootings (8/26/2012 10:18:02 AM)
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It is very easy for folks to play Monday morning quarterback -- either way. I am not from NY nor do I live there....
First, most larger LE agencies within the US have been moving away from standard "point/shoot" qualifications to "moving targets" and scenario based training, that simulates exiting cruisers, barricades, houses (domestics), etc. Away from the "70% qualification to pass/fail. Folks love to place blame if the person can shoot.
You can have expert shooters at the range, and when a situation occurs on the street, they "too" are caught up in the adrenalin/stress of the situation presented, there goes expert??? You can only create/incorporate so much stress during qualifications. Due to budgets and less and less hiring due to BUDGETS -- training is cut more and more. It is easy to say go practice yourself -- but you have to have "indoor ranges equipped with moving targets, scenario scenes, active shooter, etc" which not too many places come equipped with. You can be a perfect target shot, but when faced with a real situation and adrenalin your score goes down.... Just like a person can be the best driver in the whorl without an accident on their record or a citation but when an event occurs the lose a tad bit of their driving skills i.e black ice, a deer runs out into the road and they over-steer the vehicle; someone swerves into their lane and they hit sand. Reality is you can't plan for every situation. You train the best you can, and make the best decisions based on what is presented at that time.
In this situation the police may have been instinctive shooting vice "target shooting" -- what I mean by this is you are not utilizing your sights but are pointing at the threat and shooting from a close distance. This is taught at the ranges (now) due to the increasing number of "close" shootings that occur. During this you could jerk while firing causing the bullet to hit a "non-intended area" or you could limp-wrist with sweat and have your round go off. Police are trained more and more for instinctive shooting because there is a quicker response time of drawing the weapon, pointing and shooting at the threat (saving lives) -- vice draw weapon, raise, aim and shoot. You could be dead in those few seconds. I wasn't there so I don't know what type of firing they were doing. Were they seasoned officers or new -- what was their experience level. Were folks shuffling into them, involving themselves in the scene.
It is easier for folks to say "plan" for a safer take down area -- but if you allow him to move, which way will he move??? Will he shoot at you, shoot at someone else behind you? If he kills more folks -- is this your fault? Yup! You are going against your training.... These officers will be second guessing themselves forever.
I very much doubt that "anyone" will be "talking to them," i.e. berating their actions. They may have reacted the best they could with the knowledge that they had. If someone is pointing a gun at you and you know they have just killed someone, you are not going to stand around and play nice. You will give commands (drop your weapon) as you are taught and if they don't comply -- you shoot to stop the threat -- center mass of the target. Unfortunately, today's weapons are very powerful (based on what the perps are carrying) and have the ability to go thru objects -- whether a person/car. You can't carry less and hope to survive against today's criminals. I do not know if the police missed or the reported injuries were a result of "thru and thrus." (sp?) These officers weren't trained snipers, sitting 500 feet away with an ability to site, breath and shoot w/out distraction.
AARs are performed after each incident that occurs in a town, city, state or the nation. LE organizations are probably already taking what is "factual" based knowledge and learning what they can. This is how lesson plans are developed for range training, TacOps/SRU training and active shooter scenarios, etc..
We, the public, are so caught up with cop shows, we forget that this doesn't happen every day and you can't plan for it. You train so that training kicks in, you hope that the public is smart enough or observant enough (which too many times they are NOT) to remove themselves from the area -- instead of trying to get closer and gawk at what is going on -- we must be the first to video/twitter it to our friends.
It was a very sad event and unfortunately folks were hurt. At least only the perp was killed outside the building.
Just my personal opinion from reading all the posts.... My heart goes out to the officers and everyone involved -- from the folks in the building to the police that were forced to take a life in a "suicide by cop" which seems to occur more and more.
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