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RE: Jealousy - 6/13/2006 5:54:56 AM   
angelface183


Posts: 688
Joined: 4/12/2006
Status: offline 		I have always thought that I wanted to be in a relationship where I was shared.  The fantasy is so satisfying, but I am discovering more and more how destructive the reality would be for me. 

Master had agreed that some of the poly fantasies that I have are exciting, but when He talked (in passing) about the possibility of one day swapping with another couple, my heart sank.  I do not wish to see or even know about my Master enjoying the fruits of another woman!  I now understand how He may wish to display me and even allow me to be touched in some manner but fucking someone else is off limits at this point.  Who knows, maybe after we have been married 10 or 15 years we will want to explore that aspect, but for now we are a couple.

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RE: Jealousy - 6/13/2006 5:59:49 AM   
ExistentialSteel


Posts: 676
Joined: 1/18/2005
Status: offline 		Wait just a doggone minute. We are talking about Doms bringing in another sub, not the sub having other Doms. LOL...damn. Who me jealous? Well, uh, let's get back to the Dom bringing in the other sub. Ha

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RE: Jealousy - 6/13/2006 6:00:48 AM   
Prunesquallor


Posts: 181
Joined: 10/12/2005
Status: offline 		Poly lifestyles can work - but all parties have to be *very* secure with the relationship and their place in it. 

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RE: Jealousy - 6/13/2006 6:15:50 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Because we all know REAL masters force their immature kinky desires onto whatever novice they can manipulate into accepting them, have absolutely NO skills towards actually forming and maintaining a secure relationship, ultimately leading to the disgust and pain of all involved (and sometimes venting posts about how poly sucks).

It's the weak ones who understand their limitations and work for the long term fulfillment of those involved in the relationship.  Right.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_374948/mpage_1/key_jealousy/tm.htm#377940
9 previous threads on jealousy

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RE: Jealousy - 6/13/2006 6:29:27 AM   
angelface183


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prunesquallor

Poly lifestyles can work - but all parties have to be *very* secure with the relationship and their place in it. 


I am sure that they can work for many, but I am realizing that it is far more difficult for me than I thought it would be. 

quote:

  Wait just a doggone minute. We are talking about Doms bringing in another sub, not the sub having other Doms. LOL...damn. Who me jealous? Well, uh, let's get back to the Dom bringing in the other sub. Ha


ExistentialSteel, I guess the reason I brought up my fantasy was that I had naively thought that when I found my special One that He would not mind sharing me.  It wasn't until after I met my Master and offered myself to Him completely that I even considered the possibility of having to share Him.  I did not like that at all!  The jealousy that I felt was unbelievable and we were not even talking about a real life situation.  It was kind of in passing mentioned as,"Someday....."

Smythe had mentioned turning the tables on the Master
quote:

  you might just ask him how he would feel about you having a second master and see how that works for him


that is in essence what my Master did to me and it was very effective at getting His point across.  Just thought that I would share.

< Message edited by angelface183 -- 6/13/2006 6:31:01 AM >

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RE: Jealousy - 6/13/2006 6:30:33 AM   
PlayfulOne


Posts: 1047
Status: offline 		No, that does not make him weak.  Roles and goals inside a relationship can change over time if both of you are happy then that is all that matters.  No one else can tell you what is right except for the two of you.    My Little One and I cam into our relatioship understanding that we were both poly, if she came to me one day and said she no longer wished to be poly we would discuss it but in the end it would probably signal the end of the relationship.  I don't function well in a strictly mongamous setting.

I don't think jealousy works well in any relationship.  Personally I have never seen it as anything but destructive. 

K 

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RE: Jealousy - 6/13/2006 6:41:38 AM   
litleone8620


Posts: 3669
Joined: 6/12/2006
Status: offline 		In response to LA: i knew there had to be more threads about jealousy, and i didn't expect such an outpouring of responses.

My initial question didn't include myself bringing another dominant into our relationship; and if i even brought it up, well, the outcome would probably not be good.

Angelface, i can understand where you're coming from. At the beginning of our relationship, Master had wanted to share me, but only if i was willing to share Him. I obviously wasn't, so that idea was shot out the window.

Poly's can work, i agree. But they aren't for everybody as this thread has obviously pointed out.

While Master and i talked about bringing in another subbie, he told me she would only be for my pleasure, and she would serve me. And His pleasure wouldn't be coming from her, but coming from her, pleasing me. If that makes any sense.

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RE: Jealousy - 6/13/2006 6:54:04 AM   
angelface183


Posts: 688
Joined: 4/12/2006
Status: offline 		I have to say that it is more likely that I would be accepting of an arrangement such as this myself:
quote:

  he told me she would only be for my pleasure, and she would serve me. And His pleasure wouldn't be coming from her, but coming from her, pleasing me.


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RE: Jealousy - 6/13/2006 7:03:36 AM   
litleone8620


Posts: 3669
Joined: 6/12/2006
Status: offline 		Even if you're not dominantly inclined?

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RE: Jealousy - 6/13/2006 7:14:03 AM   
angelface183


Posts: 688
Joined: 4/12/2006
Status: offline 		If it would please my Master to see me dominate another woman, perhaps to act out the very things with her that He has done with me, then would I not in fact be serving Him?  I am, after all, an instrument of His pleasure; a toy that He can use in any way that He wants.  If He wants to see another woman please me or for me to dominate her, then I will do whatever He asks because I am His to do as He wishes.  However, I do not believe that I could share Him with another woman....


<edited to add>

I think that this is what make relationships interesting and confusing.  There are no rules, just individuals.  If you are lucky, you find someone who has similar values, beliefs, interests, and sexual desires.  Do what feels right for you and yours. 

Do not worry if someone else says that one of you is weak.  How do you feel?  How does He feel?  Those are the only things that matter.  Are you happy?  Do you please one another? 

Enjoy what it is that you have and do not be concerned as to whether or not it fits into someone else's definition.  If it is working for you and your Master then that is all that matters, but I think you already know that. 
XX

< Message edited by angelface183 -- 6/13/2006 7:22:41 AM >

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RE: Jealousy - 6/13/2006 7:29:38 AM   
litleone8620


Posts: 3669
Joined: 6/12/2006
Status: offline 		Sound advice. Thank you

I've thought about that since my last post, which admitedly wasn't that long ago, and your post just reinforced my thoughts. Being an instrument of His pleasure, would only make me want to please Him more. Since my pleasure comes from His pleasure, if it pleases Him to see me dominate  another woman, then i suppose i would (that statement seemed to have a lot of pleasure in it ).

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RE: Jealousy - 6/13/2006 7:45:49 AM   
angelface183


Posts: 688
Joined: 4/12/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: litleone8620

Sound advice. Thank you

I've thought about that since my last post, which admitedly wasn't that long ago, and your post just reinforced my thoughts. Being an instrument of His pleasure, would only make me want to please Him more. Since my pleasure comes from His pleasure, if it pleases Him to see me dominate  another woman, then i suppose i would (that statement seemed to have a lot of pleasure in it ).



I am pleased to have been of assistance.  LOL

Do what feels right.  It sounds as if you have a good relationship with your Master and that the two of you communicate well.  He also seems to be genuinely interested in your pleasure and comfort.  Keep the lines of communication open. 

I often tell my Master what I liked or didn't like about a scene.  He is interested in knowing what I enjoy.  Fortunately, we keep discovering that the things I like are the very things that turn Him on!  Lucky for us.  

People change, as do their interests and desires.  What is a hard limit for you now may soften over time.  What you find stimulating now may be boring to you in a few years.  A relationship needs to be both fluid and solid to weather the changes.

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RE: Jealousy - 6/13/2006 7:55:21 AM   
litleone8620


Posts: 3669
Joined: 6/12/2006
Status: offline 		Unfortunately, Master and i have just now opened the lines of communication regarding what we like and don't like; and what we each want out of our relationship. We waited entirely too long, but i'm positive we can bounce back.

Despite this mishap, He seemed to always know what i wanted and needed in terms of scening, and for that i am eternally lucky. It sounds as if you are too.

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RE: Jealousy - 6/13/2006 8:13:22 AM   
angelface183


Posts: 688
Joined: 4/12/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: litleone8620

He seemed to always know what i wanted and needed in terms of scening, and for that i am eternally lucky. It sounds as if you are too.



I am indeed. 

<kind of off topic, but related>The other day I had my legs bound in a way that required me to use different muscles in my legs throughout the scene.  It was definitely a workout!  At one point I made a cry (keep in mind that I had in ball gag) that was a little different than usual.  My left leg was killing me!  I could have tried to ride out the pain, but Master recognized something was up and allowed me to spit out the gag to tell Him what was going on.  He released my leg for about a minute giving me time to stretch it out and then we returned to where we had left off.  He is very much aware of my needs and limits.  He takes very good care of me, afterall, what good is a broken or unhappy fuck toy?

< Message edited by angelface183 -- 6/13/2006 8:15:53 AM >

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RE: Jealousy - 6/13/2006 8:14:07 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Is he weak?  Maybe!, Maybe Not.

I agree with Padriag’s that your Master had some options to consider.  But, it’s the motivations/reasons for the given choice that will make him weak or strong and not just that he happens to choose a particular choice that makes you feel better.  I also think he has another option that is not consider in Padriag’s list.

Option 1.  Bring in another Submissive anyways.

Is it Weak?  You are in a Master/slave relationship are you not?  What does that mean to you?  How do you define that relationship?  In most general terms M/s reflects that there is not any negotiation between Master and slave within the relationship.  If he brought in a slave anyways, it would have been because he is Master and it was his right to make such a choice.  Making this choice would have depended on his reasons and perceptions of the M/s relationship, your needs and desires as well as his own.  If he believed that your emotional feelings were of a nature that they could be over come, he just might have brought another girl into the relationship.  In truth, he still might if that is what he desires. However, he must make a choice of what is best for both of you… not just you or him.  He decided that he is not going to bring in another girl into the relationship.  Why is that and at what price.  Your statements seem to indicate that you would never be comfortable to have another in the relationship.  I suspect that is what your Master perceived as well.  So he makes the choice that to protect your Well-Being and the relationship between the two of you.  And will not bring in a girl now or never.  Is that strong?  Maybe… Maybe not.

Option 2  Release you and start over with another submissive.

Well he didn’t release you that must be strong right?  Well at least it makes you happy right?  He showed a desire to have you by not releasing you and that must make you feel good and wanted.  He has made a choice not to have others to keep you?  If he did release you, it would have been because of what reason?  Because he would wants poly and you wouldn’t fit in it.  But, he didn’t release you so… he can’t really want poly.  That he made the decision that what he really wants is you.  That he is going to be Monogamist.  Would he be weak if he released You.  If he was strongly of a poly mind and you are monogamist wouldn’t the strong thing be to release you so you both could find someone that is compatible to the core of who you are.  But he didn’t do that did he.

Option 3 Keep you not bring in another submissive.

Well this is what he is doing.  He is going to be Monogamist.  You made it pretty clear that and I quote

quote:

i learned i would be jealous of any other submissive that would come into the relationship, no matter how secure i was with my Master.


Well this is rather to the point.  No room for you ever to be comfortable with sharing him.  You statement is rather strong, which is great.  Your Monogamist!  Nothing wrong with that.

But,

quote:

plan on reintroducing the topic to my Master when i'm feeling more secure in O/our relationship


Why would you reintroduce the topic with you becoming more secure?  Did you not just state that no matter how SECURE you would have jealousy?  Don’t you think your giving some mixed messages here?  Are you giving your Master the same Mixed Messages?  Why would you want to bring it up?  Do you perceive something about him with regards to his needs and wants?  Are you lying to yourself?


Option 4  Keeps you and Holds out hope that you will change

Mmmmmmm yes this is a very real possibility.  Would this be weak?  Maybe… Maybe Not?  Your mixed message would seem to indicate that you might change.  But what if you don’t change?  Is he just postponing the inevitable?  What if you don’t change?  Is he going to get bitter and resent his choice of a slave?  Is he being True to who he is?   You’re rather young… I suspect so is he.  You both have a lot of time ahead, lots of time to change!  But is the hope in vain?


Is he being Weak or Strong is dependent on if he is being Honest to himself AND you!  I don’t know if he is weak or strong.  Strength is not in our choices… but in the honesty that goes in the choices we make.  I hope you both being Honest with the choices… for that will make you strong.  But if the openness between you is an illusion… there is a real weakness that will show itself, time will tell! 

As far as jealousy concerns that is for another post some day.

edited for typo

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 6/13/2006 8:17:56 AM >

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RE: Jealousy - 6/13/2006 8:18:03 AM   
Viper001


Posts: 55
Joined: 8/8/2005
From: SF, California
Status: offline 		Please pass my regards to your Owner. Contrary to being "weak", i see him as being in firm control of his own desires and making your emotional welfare a priority for the sake of your relationship. Isn't this one of the most-wanted qualities of a "master" ?

My own 2 cents: we have been open to a poly relationship ourselves for several reasons. My slave is bisexual and would really like a steady playmate. I can be savagely sadistic, and quite frequently can continue to play long after my wife/slave is totally worn out. She would like someone to share this pleasure with her. However, we have two requirements that have kept us monogamous for the last 7 years. She must be able to have a relationship with both of us - not just one or the other. We have an agreement that we will *always* both be present for any playsessions - precisely to mitigate any anticipated feelings of insecurity/jealousy on my slave's part. Something to think about, perhaps ?

Regards,
Viper_001

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RE: Jealousy - 6/13/2006 8:19:21 AM   
TolerableCruelty


Posts: 447
Joined: 2/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Is there room in an M/s relationship for jealousy? 


No. Not in My relationships, vanilla or otherwise.... I've always seen it as one party being untrusting of the other, and detrimental to the relationship itself.

quote:

  Or is it even expected on both the Dominant's and submissive's parts?


No. See My previous answer.


T.R.

< Message edited by TolerableCruelty -- 6/13/2006 8:20:18 AM >

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RE: Jealousy - 6/13/2006 8:52:16 AM   
litleone8620


Posts: 3669
Joined: 6/12/2006
Status: offline 		How long have you and Him been together? It seems as if He might be able to anticipate your 'problems' and try to avoid them.

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RE: Jealousy - 6/13/2006 8:56:59 AM   
angelface183


Posts: 688
Joined: 4/12/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: litleone8620

How long have you and Him been together? It seems as if He might be able to anticipate your 'problems' and try to avoid them.


We were trying something new.  The position was awesome, but I will need more support.  He is considering building a piece of furniture that will allow that postion without the extra effort.  That is just one of many pieces that He is building so that we may achieve the desired affects....

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RE: Jealousy - 6/13/2006 8:59:31 AM   
litleone8620


Posts: 3669
Joined: 6/12/2006
Status: offline 		In a poly relationship, there's got to be a lot of trust there. What happens if you bring in another slave, and she gets it into her mind that she wants to be the Alpha slave? Or do you deal with that before you commit to something?

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