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RE: Jealousy and Envy - 6/15/2006 8:56:52 PM   
SweetSarijane


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quote:

ORIGINAL: alandraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetSarijane

I see them as two separate emotions.
Envy being along the lines of wishing you had something that someone else has material or non and jealousy more along the lines of fear of losing something you have, of someone taking something or someone from you, and I think low self esteem plays into jealousy as well making it worse.



i have seen this thought expressed by a couple of people in this thread..... i see jealousy not as a fear of losing someone or some thing but more as * i deserve that  more then they do, why do they have it,  i shouldhave it  or deserve it more then them* feeling.  a person does not have to have the item or be in a relationship with someone to feel jealousy.


Knight's alandra


I understand what you're saying there, but it still computes to me as envy rather than jealousy. Just the way my mind sees it.

It's very interesting to read the varied viewpoints on the two, seeing how others view the same words in different ways.

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RE: Jealousy and Envy - 6/15/2006 9:09:02 PM   
slavejali


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quote:

How about this?  Envy is when you think someone has something you would like to have, or be, and jealousy is when you discover you were right.


I would call the entire thoughts and feelings in that process "awareness". ..so there  hehe

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RE: Jealousy and Envy - 6/15/2006 11:42:32 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


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Status: offline 		When I think or feel jealous, it is generally about my feeling/thinking that my property or rights are being encroached upon...

Envy, I almost never feel, but I think of it in terms of someone having something that I want, and think I deserve, perhaps more than he/she.   M

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RE: Jealousy and Envy - 6/16/2006 12:00:54 AM   
male59sub


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Status: offline 		Monogamy of the Mistress or Master is anathema to this lifestyle.  As slaves, we should and can only expect our Owners to exercise Their right as "free" persons to have sex as They wish, and to own other slaves, if that is Their choice.  As slaves, we have given up the right to question or to try to effect.  If a slave has that right, then someone is truly "playing" but this life is different things to different people.  It is a place where we all attempt to re-create our own sense of space and order according to general guidelines, with many variations.  my viewpoint may well be no more valid than anyone else's.  When i say what "should be" what i am really saying is "what should be for me."

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RE: Jealousy and Envy - 6/16/2006 12:16:37 AM   
BlkTallFullfig


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quote:

ORIGINAL: male59sub
Monogamy of the Mistress or Master is anathema to this lifestyle.  As slaves, we should and can only expect our Owners to exercise Their right as "free" persons to have sex as They wish, and to own other slaves, if that is Their choice.  As slaves, we have given up the right to question or to try to effect.  If a slave has that right, then someone is truly "playing" but this life is different things to different people.  It is a place where we all attempt to re-create our own sense of space and order according to general guidelines, with many variations.  my viewpoint may well be no more valid than anyone else's.  When i say what "should be" what i am really saying is "what should be for me."
Awesome albeit a hijacking post, except that I like and am very comfortable with monogamy...  Not because I believe as a domina I owe it to my would be boy, but because I honestly believe it's good for his soul to have my love/devotion and sex exclusively.   Obviously this might as well be listed as one of my kinks ( a domina who wants to be served by and phuck only one man, lol).   M

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RE: Jealousy and Envy - 6/16/2006 12:37:37 AM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Some of the more negative emotions are Jealousy and Envy.  I see them as two seperate and distinct emotions.  But, I am wondering how others see them?


I see jealously as something/one which you have but don't want others to possess.. and envy as something/one which others have and which you covet.

Celeste

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RE: Jealousy and Envy - 7/16/2006 4:32:44 AM   
lickody


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Status: offline 		Hello Lucky, You are right and precise. Jealousy is an element that we outrgithly feel bad out ouserlves and also feel that why other person is like that we try to immulate that person. If the degree of lealousy is so high we take it in destructive manner to see that cuae of jealousy is vansihed or we look for the down fall of that person as well. The feeling of jealousy is self destructive, we feel bad eve sometime we harm ourselves out of desperation when we are jealous. It also cause us to be unrealsitic and unreasonable.

when we envy, it is wishful feeling to be like that. In this situation we make the object of envy oru traget or source to change ourselves and do things to accomplish waht we want atleast to resemble to the object of envy. We work in the direction to achieve that goal and it infuses positve energy and fresh enthusiasm. Its better and we should keep it up.

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RE: Jealousy and Envy - 7/16/2006 2:16:18 PM   
cloudboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tikkiee

Envy, on the other hand, I see as a positive emotion. Being envious of others can often cause a person to do something to improve themselves.

Just how I see them though.


Envy is one of the seven deadly sins, and I think its the worst. Envy is not admiration, aka, LA's "I like that dress." No envy is the regognition of something great or "more" with bitterness.

Envy, then, is usually accompanied by resentment.

There is a famous Russian saying. "I have one cow. My neighbor has two cows. We should kill his extra cow."

Envy to me is a very selfish emotion. It is the opposite of compersion. I think KoM is astute to link envy up with Jealously, because the two can definitely be related.

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RE: Jealousy and Envy - 7/16/2006 3:07:47 PM   
eruditegirl1


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Status: offline 		Usually jealousy involves three subjects….. the main, the adversary and the intended…. the jealous person's real focus of concern is the intended….the person whose attention he is losing or fears they will lose…. But with envy it’s a two party dynamic…. and the envious person's focus of concern is the adversary …... there is a difference between envy and jealousy......
 
Even though they share similar dynamics….they are from a philosophical view point…different…..

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RE: Jealousy and Envy - 7/16/2006 3:46:10 PM   
deltadawn


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Status: offline 		Jealousy... the green eyed monster that makes us question WHY  

envy... the monster that makes us question HOW.

Personally I find both equally bad for any relationship and for our own self worth.  If I am jealous I am saying I am not as good as ..........  If I am envious..hmmm saying the same?

dawn

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RE: Jealousy and Envy - 7/16/2006 3:49:44 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Status: offline 		I've never understood why people confuse jealousy and envy.  In my mind, they have nothing to do with each other.  Envy is when you want something that someone else has, and sometimes it can even be a healthy emotion (for example, "I envy your adventurousness").  But usually it's a negative emotion, borne out of a desire to get even or to humble someone who has something you don't.

Jealousy is completely different.  Jealousy is what you feel when you don't want your lover to love someone else.  The God of the Old Testament is a jealous god--he doesn't want his flock to be whoring after other gods.  That doesn't mean he's an ENVIOUS god.  Of course, usually when people use the word "jealous," they're talking about human beings, not the God of the Old Testament.

Both envy and jealousy are natural emotions, in the sense that I don't think there is anything you can do to prevent them from arising.  The issue is how you control them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Some of the more negative emotions are Jealousy and Envy.  I see them as two seperate and distinct emotions.  But, I am wondering how others see them?

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RE: Jealousy and Envy - 7/16/2006 4:20:45 PM   
IronBear


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExistentialSteel

You could blur the distinctions with semantics until there is little difference. However, to me, envy is wanting something that is not mine. Jealousy is the fear that I am losing something that is mine to another.  


I couldn't have put it better ES. I am rarely envious or jealous.. Often Lustfull/Lusting


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RE: Jealousy and Envy - 7/16/2006 5:07:21 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: alandraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetSarijane

I see them as two separate emotions.
Envy being along the lines of wishing you had something that someone else has material or non and jealousy more along the lines of fear of losing something you have, of someone taking something or someone from you, and I think low self esteem plays into jealousy as well making it worse.



i have seen this thought expressed by a couple of people in this thread..... i see jealousy not as a fear of losing someone or some thing but more as * i deserve that  more then they do, why do they have it,  i shouldhave it  or deserve it more then them* feeling.  a person does not have to have the item or be in a relationship with someone to feel jealousy.

where as, in my opinion envy is * i really like that, wish i could be that or have that or look as good in that* feeling.  To me they are two very different feelings, with out envy can help a person to grow and expand what they wish to learn.

Knight's alandra
This is my take on it as well..couldnt of said it better...Tempting

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RE: Jealousy and Envy - 7/16/2006 5:10:34 PM   
kisshou


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Status: offline 		I think jealousy is about love and people, not wanting someone you love to spend time with someone else.

I think envy is about things, like wishing you could have a nice car as someone else, or as nice a house.

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RE: Jealousy and Envy - 7/16/2006 5:10:42 PM   
LotusSong


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Status: offline 		Jelousey:  The fear of loosing someone to another

Envy:  Wistful desire for another's situation that you realize took more work than you would be willing to put into it. 

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RE: Jealousy and Envy - 7/16/2006 5:40:06 PM   
cloudboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

(for example, "I envy your adventurousness"). But usually it's a negative emotion, borne out of a desire to get even or to humble someone who has something you don't.

Jealousy is completely different.


You are misusing the word envy (or slangifying it) and jealously is not completely different. Check the dictionary.

Envy is not admiration or wanting to emulate another. Syn: jealously, enviousness, covetousness.

"To envy is too feel resentful because someone else possesses or has achieved what one wishes oneself to possess or has achieved what one wishes oneself to possess or to have achieved. " Random House Dictionary



< Message edited by cloudboy -- 7/16/2006 5:47:18 PM >

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RE: Jealousy and Envy - 7/16/2006 10:59:59 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Status: offline 		Please.  You need to know a lot more about usage if you're going to correct someone.

The only dictionary that is worth a fiddler's fart is the Oxford English Dictionary.  Look at THAT.  You'll discover that the use of "envy" as a synonym for "jealousy" has been obsolete since the 14th century.

Oh, and under "envy (n.)," definitions 4 and 4b ("Without notion of malevolence: ... A longing for the advantages enjoyed by another person"), you'll see the non-pejorative senses of "envy" that I was talking about.  Those go back to the 15th century.  I'm not "slangifying" anything.

While you're at it, I recommend looking up "jealousy"; you'll see it has nothing to do with "envy."

Sheesh.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

(for example, "I envy your adventurousness"). But usually it's a negative emotion, borne out of a desire to get even or to humble someone who has something you don't.

Jealousy is completely different.


You are misusing the word envy (or slangifying it) and jealously is not completely different. Check the dictionary.

Envy is not admiration or wanting to emulate another. Syn: jealously, enviousness, covetousness.

"To envy is too feel resentful because someone else possesses or has achieved what one wishes oneself to possess or has achieved what one wishes oneself to possess or to have achieved. " Random House Dictionary

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RE: Jealousy and Envy - 7/17/2006 2:13:13 AM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		a quick google comes up with this: 
 
"It is important to distinguish jealousy from envy. To oversimplify, jealousy is angry, envy is wistful. Jealousy is destructive, envy rarely is."          http://joe.bi.org/jealousy.html

He's not far off the mark.  It's often acceptable to be envious of another's situation..  "friend was at dungeon, got to scene with Master, i had to work"  is completely different from the jealous angle of the same situation, where you ascribe projections about the outcome of that friend and Master, perceiving a threat of some kind.

In my mind, envy is a reactive emotion related to the past.  Jealousy is almost like a premptive strike against a perceived future result. 

Maybe in the above example, envy is only wishing you could have been there and not at work.  Jealousy might be thinking about how to finagle things so that shit doesn't ever happen again. Because Jealousy almost always incorporates some feeling the situation or person you're envious of is unjustly doing/ having/ being what you want to be doing/ having / being, so jealously seeks "justice" for itself.

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RE: Jealousy and Envy - 7/17/2006 2:30:13 AM   
mons


Posts: 2400
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Status: offline 		greeting knightof mist
 
I see a very big differenc envy is an emotion that come from wanting someone object not a man but yes envy can be about a slave seeing that the other has a very good master but it does not means she wants him her master may be just as good. it is all about i want what she or he has car, bost house etc
 
now jealouly is a different and deadly and dangerous of the emoiton this one is the one where someone will hurt another for someone she see as hers a man is the main thing for the green eye monster, i was taught and i taught myself never to be or have this one emotion ever it is the one that can make a calm woman or men go nuts. when a person is jealous he or she has the ideal that what they have a husband or wife girlfirend or slave or submissvie is their to beat if they look at anothe person, or even thiink they looked at someone.
i seen where acid is throw into the face of the person they think as wrong them i am thank god not a jealous woman i never have been i think i can have anyone i choose i am as seexy and smart as the next woman if a men cheats which has not happen i would not fight the woman i would just throw him out fast envy and jealous are so different this i hope explain the differenc it is a thing of insecriuty that is all.
i do not deal with any male who show a sign of being jealous. this is the reason i was beaten almost kill but a man who thought i was looking at others it is safe to watch out women can be more vicous then any man i know so careful all males acid is the choice of weapon now .
 
knigh i hope this explain how i see both of these emotions
take care i do like you name
 
mons

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RE: Jealousy and Envy - 7/17/2006 6:33:06 AM   
cloudboy


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Status: offline 		I knew my post to you would generate a correction.

BTW, your criticism of my Random House Dictionary is a violation of the TOS, and its feelings are hurt. Such Ab-Dictionum attacks are really unwarranted.

I still think the majority of contributors here are mangling the real meaning of envy.

There's a fluffy meaning of jealously too --- but I would call that casual usuage --- "I'm jealous of your trip to Cancun."

But KoM is not talking about or raising an issue of either the casual meaning of jealousy or envy --- he's talking about their primary meanings (not 4 and 4b) and I suggest we concentrate on them.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 7/17/2006 6:40:14 AM >

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