RE: Suicide by cop or manslaughter?

RE: Suicide by cop or manslaughter? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

Real0ne -> RE: Suicide by cop or manslaughter? (7/26/2013 10:16:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 Shoot toward the ground and cause ricochets? Shoot the extremities and cause shock to set in making the person even less rational? at the distances we are talking? Your are joking right? whats wrong with taking a step back? whats wrong with helping people instead of murdering them. No we have a psychopathic killers for cops and the government is protecting them. Why. Willfully place yourself into a danger situation area then murder someone just because they are waving a lousy fucking knife? Even though they never hurt anyone? WTF is up with that? Seriously thats like these asshole cops that throw themselves in front of a car trying to escape then charging the person with attempted murder. The fucking cop should be charged with attempted suicide! We dont see the fraud in this yet? [image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/stufff/5987478193_5205fbfb76.jpg[/image]

Termyn8or -> RE: Suicide by cop or manslaughter? (7/27/2013 1:42:27 AM)
I almost thought that was Palestine but the guy has blonde hair. T^T

vincentML -> RE: Suicide by cop or manslaughter? (7/27/2013 9:06:28 AM)
quote: You can say that no one was around now with 20/20 hindsight. The police had no way of knowing any such thing. Outside doesn't guarantee no one around. It does if the police set up a perimeter. Lauderhill isn't exactly Times Square at 1:00 am. quote: Easy to walk around backwards? Did you even bother to watch the videos? Ah, yes I did. The videos show cops with their guns holstered. How dumb are you to have your gun holstered when approaching a knife wielder? The videos are really bullshit. Give me a break [8\|] quote: A little patience and a calm manner might have just as easily made an unstable person think they were being patronized or set up for a trap.... thus inflaming the situation. Oh, right![8\|] quote: And I repeat, what training? PhDs in psychology? MDs in psychiatry for every single patrol officer in America? Ninja grandmaster skills? Are you going to pay for that? How about some simple instruction? It doesn't require a rocket scientist to know not to agitate someone with a knife. quote: Smacks of gang panic instead of police training? What police academies have you been through to deliver that pronouncement? Their actions speak for themselves. quote: Shoot at a knife? So you are back on the 'shoot the knife out of their hand' fantasy, that is a direct violation of the polices that your politicians implemented. Not at all what I meant. quote: Last time, do you have anything workable in real life? Police could have easily waited him out at a safe distance and fired only if he attacked. In the meantime they could have called the home phone to summon his mom.

kiwisub12 -> RE: Suicide by cop or manslaughter? (7/27/2013 9:07:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: erieangel quote: And I repeat, what training? PhDs in psychology? MDs in psychiatry for every single patrol officer in America? Ninja grandmaster skills? Are you going to pay for that? There is a small program called Mental Health First Aid. Every police officer, fire fighter, doctor, school teacher and everybody who cares about their neighbors should find and take a course in Mental Health First Aid. On a related note. A few weeks ago, in Oil City, PA, we had a similar occurrence. A 68 yr. old woman with mental health issues, became symptomatic one night. Her son, not knowing who else to call, phoned the police. When the police arrived, she was holding "a large kitchen knife" (this quote comes from the various reports I've heard on TV). She was shot in the center of the chest. State police are investigating the incident, but the Oil City police chief has said he supports the officer who shot and killed the woman and he doesn't believe his officer did anything wrong. Nothing wrong? Couldn't he have shot her in the shoulder of the hand holding the knife? Or in the leg? Any place rather than center mass? A bullet any place rather than center mass would taken a 68 yr. old woman down. You shoot center mass only if you are trying to kill. But did they have to shoot at all? They knew she was mentally ill and having issues at that night--the son told them!!! He was looking for help to get her into the hospital, not looking for his mother to be treated like a deranged criminal and shot and killed. Have you ever actually shot a handgun. I have, and accuracy isn't as easy as you seem to think. And as the mother of a child with mental health issues, I wouldn't want my child shot because of threatening people with a knife. BUT would I want her hurting or killing someone else? If the man in the situation above really wanted his mother to get help, why didn't he call an ambulance? That would be my go-to agency for physical or mental help.

WebWanderer -> RE: Suicide by cop or manslaughter? (7/27/2013 11:07:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne Even though they never hurt anyone? WTF is up with that? I'll humor you. How many people does the guy with the knife have to hurt before it's okay to neutralize him? Is it okay to start shooting after he stabs you 2 times? 5? 10? You don't appear to understand how self-defense law works... This whole thread reminds me of a certain facebook acquaintance... When the cops in Boston were chasing the marathon bombers and shooting at them (while being shot at and having pipe bombs thrown at them), she posted a ridiculous little meme saying "Due process? Ain't nobody got time for that!" She was under the impression that when somebody is shooting and throwing bombs at you, you're supposed to read them their Miranda rights and talk them down. She seriously believed that and wouldn't listen to anybody who said otherwise. [&:]

Real0ne -> RE: Suicide by cop or manslaughter? (7/27/2013 5:31:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WebWanderer quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne Even though they never hurt anyone? WTF is up with that? I'll humor you. How many people does the guy with the knife have to hurt before it's okay to neutralize him? Is it okay to start shooting after he stabs you 2 times? 5? 10? You don't appear to understand how self-defense law works... This whole thread reminds me of a certain facebook acquaintance... When the cops in Boston were chasing the marathon bombers and shooting at them (while being shot at and having pipe bombs thrown at them), she posted a ridiculous little meme saying "Due process? Ain't nobody got time for that!" She was under the impression that when somebody is shooting and throwing bombs at you, you're supposed to read them their Miranda rights and talk them down. She seriously believed that and wouldn't listen to anybody who said otherwise. [&:] now people may buy that but knives are not guns. you cant slash someone in .02 seconds like you can draw and shoot a gun. So I suppose the image people have is the mad slasher did this? [image]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_15RjvmMWygs/TCfqUVmAuJI/AAAAAAAAAF0/rqZXE8UR7z8/s320/scars15.jpg[/image] and lunged at the cop? unlikely or more likely was the case he simply waving a damn box cutter around and the cop was to fucking stoopid to know the difference? Since 99% of the time "a stabber never shows and a shower never stabs". Were any alternative steps taken to diffuse the situation instead of what cops ALWAYS fucking do which is to incite and escalate a worsening of the situation with their fucking low iq rambo tactics. There is body armor available so they wont get a scratch on them but oh no in america land of the free, we just shoot em dead let god sort em out. Its cheaper. http://science.howstuffworks.com/liquid-body-armor1.htm Lets say body armor was not available, is that all these fuckwads need to know is how to pull a fucking trigger to be a leo? Is that what you are saying? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i4zlg0wDm4 Protecting Those Who Protect Us, with Body Armor Body armor made with DuPont™ Kevlar® fiber can mean the difference between life and serious injury or death for those in the military, emergency response, and law enforcement. A knife is effective at close distances. Specifically, at punching range, clinching distance, and to a lesser degree, in a grappling situation. The non dominant foot should be firmly planted forward with the dominant foot resting on it's ball slightly behind and slightly outward. The torso should be rotated to face the opponent. Hands should be up in front of the face with elbows tucked in. Keep your fingers curled, but not in fists. This will allow you to either grasp, palm strike, elbow strike, or punch. http://www.wikihow.com/Disarm-Your-Opponent People have been led to believe that cops are here to help them and nothing could be farther from the truth.

Moonhead -> RE: Suicide by cop or manslaughter? (7/27/2013 5:37:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne So I suppose the image people have is the mad slasher did this? [image]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_15RjvmMWygs/TCfqUVmAuJI/AAAAAAAAAF0/rqZXE8UR7z8/s320/scars15.jpg[/image] That's a vampire, not a mad slasher. Dracula, boy. Him with the sharp pointy teeth ande no pulse who doesn't sparkle?

Real0ne -> RE: Suicide by cop or manslaughter? (7/27/2013 5:57:31 PM)
If I were "within reach" I would be fairly certain in this case he intended to ventilate me. Kinfe wavers rarely if ever do that yet they thugs mow them down with near impunity.

erieangel -> RE: Suicide by cop or manslaughter? (7/27/2013 6:35:57 PM)
quote: ave you ever actually shot a handgun. I have, and accuracy isn't as easy as you seem to think. And as the mother of a child with mental health issues, I wouldn't want my child shot because of threatening people with a knife. BUT would I want her hurting or killing someone else? If the man in the situation above really wanted his mother to get help, why didn't he call an ambulance? That would be my go-to agency for physical or mental help. Not only am a the mother of a grown son who has bipolar disorder, I also have bipolar disorder. My mother was also mentally ill. I also work in the mental health field. I've been trained in mental health first aid and been on a team that put it in into action, to great effect. Actually, in Oil City, the son should have called a mental health crisis hotline, but he didn't know who to call at the time, so he just called 911 and the police were sent to the scene. I've been advocating for my county's 911 be able to dispatch crisis workers, just so a similar thing doesn't happen around here; but there are a lot of legal and privacy issues to get around. For some reason, TPTB seem it is safer to chance a fatal shooting or 2 (or more) than to train 911 operators to ask a few questions and possibly inform the crisis services agency rather than police. (Around here, when crisis called, the worker makes an initial assessment than calls for police/ambulance if needed. Some crisis workers will transport to the hospital themselves).

Termyn8or -> RE: Suicide by cop or manslaughter? (7/27/2013 6:56:53 PM)
FR I want to know why they are so fucking cowardly. I want to know how come whenever you hear about them kicking someone's ass they are handcuffed and there are a bunch of them kicking the suspect. You know that happened to me and I fucking laughed. They can't even kick hard. I know a guy who might be like 5'6" who beat the living fuck out of a cop and even took his gun. Went on a tristate crime spree. I can link you to his rap sheet if you like. He did a dime over that but that cop probably still can't get a fucking hardon because of it. Pussy. I would be so goddamn ashamed of myself if I didn't take myself out I would go be a librarian or something. Maybe an elementary school teacher, but no, them kids can be dangerous. T^T

WebWanderer -> RE: Suicide by cop or manslaughter? (7/27/2013 7:25:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne now people may buy that but knives are not guns. you cant slash someone in .02 seconds like you can draw and shoot a gun. If you bothered to read the posts in this thread or do a simple google search, you'd see that yes, it is in fact possible to run up and slash/stab somebody before they draw their gun. Also, if you can draw a gun and fire in 0.02 seconds, you might have superpowers. Either that, or really poor debating skills. Or maybe no concept of time. quote: what cops ALWAYS fucking do which is to incite and escalate a worsening of the situation with their fucking low iq rambo tactics. I assure you: if cops shot every single person who ever approached them in hostile manner or ran toward them, we'd have dozens of shootings every day. This is perception bias: you only see bad news on TV. The news media will never, ever report anything along the lines of "earlier today, a man acted aggressively and the police subdued him without a fight." There's simply no news value in it. Only a tiny percentage of police altercations that happen every day in this country end in shootings, let alone fatal ones. But then again, you won't even bother to read what I just said, will you?..

Termyn8or -> RE: Suicide by cop or manslaughter? (7/27/2013 7:28:51 PM)
"I assure you: if cops shot every single person who ever approached them in hostile manner or ran toward them, we'd have dozens of shootings every day." Ummmm, we do. T^T

vincentML -> RE: Suicide by cop or manslaughter? (7/28/2013 6:26:44 AM)
quote: If you bothered to read the posts in this thread or do a simple google search, you'd see that yes, it is in fact possible to run up and slash/stab somebody before they draw their gun. Also, if you can draw a gun and fire in 0.02 seconds, you might have superpowers. Either that, or really poor debating skills. Or maybe no concept of time. If you google "idiots" you would find a photo of cops approaching a knife wielding kid at 1:00 am in a small Florida town with their guns holstered. If you google "to serve and protect" you would NOT find a picture of four cops pumping 41 bullets at a knife wielding kid at 1:00 am in a small florida town. If you google "irrelevent" you will find your post to this thread.

Wendel27 -> RE: Suicide by cop or manslaughter? (7/28/2013 9:13:29 AM)
It's difficult to transpant experiences from Britain to America and make them relevant as cultural differences can be an enormous gul, but for what it's worth... It shouldn't be surprisisng that people with mental health issues comprise a large percentage of the peopke involved in incidents with the police that turn lethal. In Britain the vast majority of the people that police come into contact with will have some for of mental illness often exacerbated or indeed created by substance abuse. The security at mental wards is often risible and it is extremely difficult to deal with those who have more acute problems as they seem able to leave at will and engage with the public at large. There are an enormous number of responsibilities and skills needed to be an effective officer and it is very diffiicult to teach them all. The mentally ill, children, bereaved, victims, offenders, essentially cover between them the entire gamut of humanity. All of them require different approaches, some monumental some remarkably subtle...and that's in addition to powers, procedures e.t.c. are taken into account. In my own opinion, at least here, blame culture has reduced the number of people able or willing to deal with much of what has become routine for police officers and this creep of responsibility is overstraining and eroding the ability of the police to function for purpose. A modern officer is a blend of social worker/mental health professional/samaritan/bouncer/and police officer roled into one and it's frankly too much...though again that's my opinion. In this situation perhaps the officers could have acted differently i'd need to know more before coming to a definitive conclusion. From experience though dealing with the mentally ill in such situations is extremely frightening and fraught with difficulties. Officers in Britain don't carry guns routinely but as for tasers and spray or even simply physical combat there are drawbacks and the level of danger an officer is exposed to is much higher. If for example you miss with your taser you won't get a second shot. Captor spray is intermittently succesful against the mentally ill and can often be ineffective for a number of reasons. As for just fighting someone with a knife i'm sure I don't have to point out the inherent risk there. This isn't a blanket defence of all incidents where things like this happen nor even really a defence of this one. It's just wise to keep a slightly more open mind than some that i've seen commenting here on what is a hugely complex issue. There's rarely black and white right or worng answers in such situations...it's typically little more than tragic all round.

Termyn8or -> RE: Suicide by cop or manslaughter? (7/28/2013 11:00:43 AM)
FR A farmer walks into a chicken coop and grabs one of the chickens. Takes it out, chops its head off, bleeds it and then guts it and takes it in to the Woman to be cooked. The other chickens all squak and make a bunch of noise about it but it will happen again in a few days the next time the farmer has a taste for chicken. Would you rather be the farmer or the chicken ? T^T

Wendel27 -> RE: Suicide by cop or manslaughter? (7/28/2013 12:13:37 PM)
I'm honestly not sure what you're asking me Termyn8or. In the situation you describe the farmer. If you're saying that is the situation between the law and the people it applies to then I think you're being far too simplistic. Things like this are so complex and nuanced that they can't be reduced to soundbites...even though for many that's what they're comfortable with thanks to the dumbing down of the media.

Powergamz1 -> RE: Suicide by cop or manslaughter? (7/28/2013 2:52:01 PM)
You and reality will simply have to agree to disagree. But enjoy those TV fueled internet tough guy fantasies. [image]http://www.liketotally80s.com/images/rbwc-eugene-tackleberry.jpg[/image] quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: You can say that no one was around now with 20/20 hindsight. The police had no way of knowing any such thing. Outside doesn't guarantee no one around. It does if the police set up a perimeter. Lauderhill isn't exactly Times Square at 1:00 am. quote: Easy to walk around backwards? Did you even bother to watch the videos? Ah, yes I did. The videos show cops with their guns holstered. How dumb are you to have your gun holstered when approaching a knife wielder? The videos are really bullshit. Give me a break [8\|] quote: A little patience and a calm manner might have just as easily made an unstable person think they were being patronized or set up for a trap.... thus inflaming the situation. Oh, right![8\|] quote: And I repeat, what training? PhDs in psychology? MDs in psychiatry for every single patrol officer in America? Ninja grandmaster skills? Are you going to pay for that? How about some simple instruction? It doesn't require a rocket scientist to know not to agitate someone with a knife. quote: Smacks of gang panic instead of police training? What police academies have you been through to deliver that pronouncement? Their actions speak for themselves. quote: Shoot at a knife? So you are back on the 'shoot the knife out of their hand' fantasy, that is a direct violation of the polices that your politicians implemented. Not at all what I meant. quote: Last time, do you have anything workable in real life? Police could have easily waited him out at a safe distance and fired only if he attacked. In the meantime they could have called the home phone to summon his mom.

kiwisub12 -> RE: Suicide by cop or manslaughter? (7/28/2013 4:32:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wendel27 I'm honestly not sure what you're asking me Termyn8or. In the situation you describe the farmer. If you're saying that is the situation between the law and the people it applies to then I think you're being far too simplistic. Things like this are so complex and nuanced that they can't be reduced to soundbites...even though for many that's what they're comfortable with thanks to the dumbing down of the media. After reading the postings of Termyn8or over the last few years, and a couple of others on this thread, I have come to the realization that they like their thoughts simple. Very simple. So simple that they come across as child-like. Its very hard to have a conversation with them, because they hold fast to their ideas as if changing their minds is a bad thing. [8\|] And some of them have never found a conspiracy they didn't like.

thompsonx -> RE: Suicide by cop or manslaughter? (7/28/2013 4:58:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 Yes, there are more humane ways of handling these situations. Officers could all hold multiple doctorates in psychology, medicine, and hypnosis. Or the phasers could be set on stun. Or they could perform simultaneous Chuck Norris moves and kick the knife out of the person's hand so it sticks safely in the ceiling. They could amuse the upset person with hand puppets until he fell asleep. I think we learned this in lame ass 101...faulty arguement leads to assanine conclusion. When one goes to school to be a cop this is one of the courses that is taught. How to disarm a knife wielding subject that is the mayors son or anyone else who is important enough to get you fired.

Powergamz1 -> RE: Suicide by cop or manslaughter? (7/28/2013 5:01:04 PM)
One of the first things I learned after graduating from the academy, was that I was going to be in the midst of mentally disturbed, often angry, often resentful people on a daily basis. Some of them had guns. And that was before I went out on patrol...[;)] quote: ORIGINAL: Wendel27 It's difficult to transpant experiences from Britain to America and make them relevant as cultural differences can be an enormous gul, but for what it's worth... It shouldn't be surprisisng that people with mental health issues comprise a large percentage of the peopke involved in incidents with the police that turn lethal. In Britain the vast majority of the people that police come into contact with will have some for of mental illness often exacerbated or indeed created by substance abuse. The security at mental wards is often risible and it is extremely difficult to deal with those who have more acute problems as they seem able to leave at will and engage with the public at large. There are an enormous number of responsibilities and skills needed to be an effective officer and it is very diffiicult to teach them all. The mentally ill, children, bereaved, victims, offenders, essentially cover between them the entire gamut of humanity. All of them require different approaches, some monumental some remarkably subtle...and that's in addition to powers, procedures e.t.c. are taken into account. In my own opinion, at least here, blame culture has reduced the number of people able or willing to deal with much of what has become routine for police officers and this creep of responsibility is overstraining and eroding the ability of the police to function for purpose. A modern officer is a blend of social worker/mental health professional/samaritan/bouncer/and police officer roled into one and it's frankly too much...though again that's my opinion. In this situation perhaps the officers could have acted differently i'd need to know more before coming to a definitive conclusion. From experience though dealing with the mentally ill in such situations is extremely frightening and fraught with difficulties. Officers in Britain don't carry guns routinely but as for tasers and spray or even simply physical combat there are drawbacks and the level of danger an officer is exposed to is much higher. If for example you miss with your taser you won't get a second shot. Captor spray is intermittently succesful against the mentally ill and can often be ineffective for a number of reasons. As for just fighting someone with a knife i'm sure I don't have to point out the inherent risk there. This isn't a blanket defence of all incidents where things like this happen nor even really a defence of this one. It's just wise to keep a slightly more open mind than some that i've seen commenting here on what is a hugely complex issue. There's rarely black and white right or worng answers in such situations...it's typically little more than tragic all round.

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3] 4 5 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

6.347656E-02