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BamaD -> Dem wants to jail scientists who question global warming (9/28/2015 7:14:35 PM)

This is how the party of the people works.

www.redstate.com/.../global-warming-sheldon-whitehouse-rico

This is what they did to Capernicus.
If they are wrong, but I keep hearing it is the conservatives and Republicans who are extreme and want to lock up people they disagree with.





dcnovice -> RE: Dem wants to jail scientists who question global warming (9/28/2015 8:00:06 PM)

FR

Here's what Senator Whitehouse actually said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-fossil-fuel-industrys-campaign-to-mislead-the-american-people/2015/05/29/04a2c448-0574-11e5-8bda-c7b4e9a8f7ac_story.html

Comparing Willie Soon to Copernicus is certainly an interesting mental leap. Copernicus, though, seems not to have suffered for his scientific findings. Perhaps you meant Galileo?




BamaD -> RE: Dem wants to jail scientists who question global warming (9/28/2015 8:35:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

Here's what Senator Whitehouse actually said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-fossil-fuel-industrys-campaign-to-mislead-the-american-people/2015/05/29/04a2c448-0574-11e5-8bda-c7b4e9a8f7ac_story.html

Comparing Willie Soon to Copernicus is certainly an interesting mental leap. Copernicus, though, seems not to have suffered for his scientific findings. Perhaps you meant Galileo?

Perhaps. The point was not that Soon = Galileo it is that the eco-left is using the same tactics that the mideviel church used. Of course he couched it in terms to make him seem reasonable, what would you expect. Look at it this way, the same arguement could be made about scientists getting funds to promote man caused global warming. Stifling debate this way is wrong, no matter who does it.




dcnovice -> RE: Dem wants to jail scientists who question global warming (9/28/2015 8:50:16 PM)

quote:

The point was not that Soon = Galileo it is that the eco-left is using the same tactics that the mideviel church used.

A more apt comparison would be Big Oil = Medieval Church. Each found scientific progress a threat to the established order, so those in power struck out at scientists.


quote:

the same arguement could be made about scientists getting funds to promote man caused global warming.

A lot would depend on where those funds came from, along with whether the donors might have a financial stake in any particular results.


quote:

Stifling debate this way is wrong, no matter who does it.

Is there really much "debate" among climate scientists on this topic? This seems more the the fossil-fuel equivalent of "Teach the Controversy."




BamaD -> RE: Dem wants to jail scientists who question global warming (9/28/2015 8:59:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

The point was not that Soon = Galileo it is that the eco-left is using the same tactics that the mideviel church used.

A more apt comparison would be Big Oil = Medieval Church. Each found scientific progress a threat to the established order, so those in power struck out at scientists.


quote:

the same arguement could be made about scientists getting funds to promote man caused global warming.

A lot would depend on where those funds came from, along with whether the donors might have a financial stake in any particular results.


quote:

Stifling debate this way is wrong, no matter who does it.

Is there really much "debate" among climate scientists on this topic? This seems more the the fossil-fuel equivalent of "Teach the Controversy."

You mean like Al Gore who has gotten rich(er) off of man made globle warming. It is not settled science that climate change is do to man. Most of those on the hit list simply committed the sin of suggesting that man may not be the cause. And big oil is not trying to bring down the power og the government on people. Whitehouse is using his position to attempt to inprison anyone who disagrees with him. If there is no debate, who cares if big oil wasts money on people who agree with them.




dcnovice -> RE: Dem wants to jail scientists who question global warming (9/28/2015 9:22:31 PM)

quote:

Whitehouse is using his position to attempt to inprison anyone who disagrees with him.

In your thread title, you said Whitehouse wants to "jail" scientists. Here you aver that he wants to "imprison" those who disagree with him. Can you please provide an actual Whitehouse quote in which he voices those wishes?


quote:

If there is no debate, who cares if big oil wasts money on people who agree with them.

My concern is whether Big Oil is secretly underwriting "independent" science with an eye toward muddying the waters of public (mis)undertanding.




crazyml -> RE: Dem wants to jail scientists who question global warming (9/28/2015 9:38:53 PM)

I think the best comparison is the one made in the article.. big tobacco vs science.

If it was proved that there was a concerted and systematic attempt by big fossil fuel companies to stifle and confuse science, then the law will have been broken.

If there hasn't then no law has been broken.

If the law has been broken, do you think they should be allowed to get away with it without any consequences?




BamaD -> RE: Dem wants to jail scientists who question global warming (9/28/2015 9:41:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Whitehouse is using his position to attempt to inprison anyone who disagrees with him.

In your thread title, you said Whitehouse wants to "jail" scientists. Here you aver that he wants to "imprison" those who disagree with him. Can you please provide an actual Whitehouse quote in which he voices those wishes?


quote:

If there is no debate, who cares if big oil wasts money on people who agree with them.

My concern is whether Big Oil is secretly underwriting "independent" science with an eye toward muddying the waters of public (mis)undertanding.

He wants RICO prosecution, what do you call that?
My concern is that Al Gore and company want to destroy our economy just in case they are right. Gore keeps tells us that by 2032 the Washington monument will be underwater, but in 05 he said it would happen by 25, and in 88 it was a sure thing if we didn't do what he wanted by 08. In the mean time he is making money hand over fist selling "carbon offsets" speaking and selling books about our impending doom if we don't dismantle the economy. Dis you know that in the 90's he declared the internal combustion engine to be a greater threat than nucular weapons? Do you remember when climate change scientists admitted to exagerating the effects? They said it was ok because people wouldn't get excited about the real results (they multiplied worst case ocean rise by a factor of ten and protrayed that as settled science of what was coming)? And the same people have no problems with China getting a pass on polution.




Kirata -> RE: Dem wants to jail scientists who question global warming (9/28/2015 10:16:47 PM)


The Ice Caps are Melting

K.




MasterJaguar01 -> RE: Dem wants to jail scientists who question global warming (9/28/2015 10:25:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

This is how the party of the people works.

www.redstate.com/.../global-warming-sheldon-whitehouse-rico

This is what they did to Capernicus.
If they are wrong, but I keep hearing it is the conservatives and Republicans who are extreme and want to lock up people they disagree with.




Geez Bama...


Quoting Red State????

Capernicus?? Really?

All he is saying is, that based on what happened with the tobacco companies who, massive scheme to defraud the public. A lawsuit was filed (my understanding is that RICO can be used in a civil suit as well as a criminal proceeding) by the justice department.

He sees the exact same thing being done by the American Petroleum Institute. He got a hold of their memo:
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/784572-api-global-climate-science-communications-plan.html

Outlining their tactics (identical to the tobacco companies) Complete with recruiting "scientists", the media campaign, etc.


He sees an obvious parallel.


Were the tobacco scientists claiming there are no addictive effects of nicotine, "Capernicus" as well???





joether -> RE: Dem wants to jail scientists who question global warming (9/28/2015 10:54:28 PM)

Red State, BamaD? Really?

There is a site with more false news coverage than the Drudge Report! From what I am seeing it sounds like the man you have a problem with may have a good point. I think we as a nation should investigate these 'scientists' whom claim very different stuff to the scientific community. Particularly when those scientists check the 'fakers' and debunk their bullshit. But that's not the issue. The issue is an industry profiting from false information they planted to the public and placing the public at considerable risk.

Frankly I think the Justice Department should examine things with a fine-tooth comb. If there are guilty people; they are striped of any financial ability and thrown in a jail cell to rot! Notice I say 'If'. Because it is possible, regardless of how unlikely, that there are individuals completely clueless of events. We should spare the innocents from the destruction to be rained upon to the guilty!

That you oppose Climate Change on the grounds that you do not understand it; is not enough of an argument. Perhaps you could try taking some intro to biology, chemistry, and physics classes. Then move up to harder material. After that, check out Climate Change. I think you'll find the science is pretty sound on the understanding of things right now.




KenDckey -> RE: Dem wants to jail scientists who question global warming (9/29/2015 1:25:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

Here's what Senator Whitehouse actually said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-fossil-fuel-industrys-campaign-to-mislead-the-american-people/2015/05/29/04a2c448-0574-11e5-8bda-c7b4e9a8f7ac_story.html

Comparing Willie Soon to Copernicus is certainly an interesting mental leap. Copernicus, though, seems not to have suffered for his scientific findings. Perhaps you meant Galileo?

This is what the US Senate has on record of what he said. It is different than the Washington Post.

Well, the government has a playbook, too. It is called RICO, the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act. The elements of a civil racketeering case are simple. The government must allege four things: The defendant’s No. 1 conducted No. 2 an enterprise No. 3 through a pattern No. 4 of racketeering activity. Conducting means everything from directing to aiding and abetting the activity. An enterprise can be any form of association or a common scheme. Pattern means continuity of the scheme and--for civil RICO particularly--the prospect of ongoing conduct. Racketeering activity simply means a violation of designated Federal laws, including the Federal mail fraud and wire fraud statutes.

http://www.whitehouse.senate.gov/news/speeches/time-to-wake-up-climate-denial-recalls-tobacco-racketeering-





KenDckey -> RE: Dem wants to jail scientists who question global warming (9/29/2015 1:32:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

Red State, BamaD? Really?

There is a site with more false news coverage than the Drudge Report! From what I am seeing it sounds like the man you have a problem with may have a good point. I think we as a nation should investigate these 'scientists' whom claim very different stuff to the scientific community. Particularly when those scientists check the 'fakers' and debunk their bullshit. But that's not the issue. The issue is an industry profiting from false information they planted to the public and placing the public at considerable risk.

Frankly I think the Justice Department should examine things with a fine-tooth comb. If there are guilty people; they are striped of any financial ability and thrown in a jail cell to rot! Notice I say 'If'. Because it is possible, regardless of how unlikely, that there are individuals completely clueless of events. We should spare the innocents from the destruction to be rained upon to the guilty!

That you oppose Climate Change on the grounds that you do not understand it; is not enough of an argument. Perhaps you could try taking some intro to biology, chemistry, and physics classes. Then move up to harder material. After that, check out Climate Change. I think you'll find the science is pretty sound on the understanding of things right now.

Joe

Citing Red State doesn't make something wrong. Read the speech for yourself. http://www.whitehouse.senate.gov/news/speeches/time-to-wake-up-climate-denial-recalls-tobacco-racketeering-

However, they had they and Wahington Post had the concept correct. Give credit where credit is due.

As for invoking RICO, I am not sure that is the appropriate action. I will admit that I don't know what is, but RICO. I don't believe 100% of what they say. Does that make me implicated in the RICO charge (if it were to be filed)? If it did, a huge percentage of the world (including some our our brightest scientists) would have to be on trial and in prison.




MrRodgers -> RE: Dem wants to jail scientists who question global warming (9/29/2015 8:00:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

The point was not that Soon = Galileo it is that the eco-left is using the same tactics that the mideviel church used.

A more apt comparison would be Big Oil = Medieval Church. Each found scientific progress a threat to the established order, so those in power struck out at scientists.


quote:

the same arguement could be made about scientists getting funds to promote man caused global warming.

A lot would depend on where those funds came from, along with whether the donors might have a financial stake in any particular results.


quote:

Stifling debate this way is wrong, no matter who does it.

Is there really much "debate" among climate scientists on this topic? This seems more the the fossil-fuel equivalent of "Teach the Controversy."

You mean like Al Gore who has gotten rich(er) off of man made globle warming. It is not settled science that climate change is do to man. Most of those on the hit list simply committed the sin of suggesting that man may not be the cause. And big oil is not trying to bring down the power og the government on people. Whitehouse is using his position to attempt to inprison anyone who disagrees with him. If there is no debate, who cares if big oil wasts money on people who agree with them.

Gore made a movie from which his 'earnings' pale to the continued Billion$ big fossil fuel brings in. Please show me the Billion$ Gore brought in on his efforts.

To say it is not settled science means that man has caused or markedly contributed to global warming is to say it is not settle science that C02 holds 100 times more heat than oxygen which was in fact settled, mid 19th century.

Tyndall’s experiments in May 1859, which he further refined for several years afterwards, established for the first time that molecules
of gases, such as water vapor, carbon dioxide and methane, do indeed absorb more energy than oxygen and nitrogen when radiant
heat is passed through them. HERE

The current atmosphere of Venus is about 96% CO2 at 90 times the density of Earth's (93 million miles from the sun) atmosphere which is about 100 times the density of Mars' atmosphere. Venus (67 million miles from the sun) has an average temperature of 855 F, while Mercury's (36 million miles from the sun with virtually no atmosphere) temperature ranges from -300 F to 870 F. Venus is hotter than Mercury in spite of being almost twice the distance from the sun which should make Venus (if it had no atmosphere) about 200 F cooler than Mercury. HERE

Where is the for-profit motive in these scientific discoveries ? There are Billion$ at stake to argue otherwise.

Accordingly, science has determined that man has contributed 40% of the C02 in the atmosphere since the indust. rev. began in earnest about 1880.




BamaD -> RE: Dem wants to jail scientists who question global warming (9/29/2015 10:25:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

This is how the party of the people works.

www.redstate.com/.../global-warming-sheldon-whitehouse-rico

This is what they did to Capernicus.
If they are wrong, but I keep hearing it is the conservatives and Republicans who are extreme and want to lock up people they disagree with.




Geez Bama...


Quoting Red State????

Capernicus?? Really?

All he is saying is, that based on what happened with the tobacco companies who, massive scheme to defraud the public. A lawsuit was filed (my understanding is that RICO can be used in a civil suit as well as a criminal proceeding) by the justice department.

He sees the exact same thing being done by the American Petroleum Institute. He got a hold of their memo:
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/784572-api-global-climate-science-communications-plan.html

Outlining their tactics (identical to the tobacco companies) Complete with recruiting "scientists", the media campaign, etc.


He sees an obvious parallel.


Were the tobacco scientists claiming there are no addictive effects of nicotine, "Capernicus" as well???



Jeez I found the story on several sites but Red State was the only link that worked.




BamaD -> RE: Dem wants to jail scientists who question global warming (9/29/2015 10:30:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

The point was not that Soon = Galileo it is that the eco-left is using the same tactics that the mideviel church used.

A more apt comparison would be Big Oil = Medieval Church. Each found scientific progress a threat to the established order, so those in power struck out at scientists.


quote:

the same arguement could be made about scientists getting funds to promote man caused global warming.

A lot would depend on where those funds came from, along with whether the donors might have a financial stake in any particular results.


quote:

Stifling debate this way is wrong, no matter who does it.

Is there really much "debate" among climate scientists on this topic? This seems more the the fossil-fuel equivalent of "Teach the Controversy."

You mean like Al Gore who has gotten rich(er) off of man made globle warming. It is not settled science that climate change is do to man. Most of those on the hit list simply committed the sin of suggesting that man may not be the cause. And big oil is not trying to bring down the power og the government on people. Whitehouse is using his position to attempt to inprison anyone who disagrees with him. If there is no debate, who cares if big oil wasts money on people who agree with them.

Gore made a movie from which his 'earnings' pale to the continued Billion$ big fossil fuel brings in. Please show me the Billion$ Gore brought in on his efforts.

To say it is not settled science means that man has caused or markedly contributed to global warming is to say it is not settle science that C02 holds 100 times more heat than oxygen which was in fact settled, mid 19th century.

Tyndall’s experiments in May 1859, which he further refined for several years afterwards, established for the first time that molecules
of gases, such as water vapor, carbon dioxide and methane, do indeed absorb more energy than oxygen and nitrogen when radiant
heat is passed through them. HERE

The current atmosphere of Venus is about 96% CO2 at 90 times the density of Earth's (93 million miles from the sun) atmosphere which is about 100 times the density of Mars' atmosphere. Venus (67 million miles from the sun) has an average temperature of 855 F, while Mercury's (36 million miles from the sun with virtually no atmosphere) temperature ranges from -300 F to 870 F. Venus is hotter than Mercury in spite of being almost twice the distance from the sun which should make Venus (if it had no atmosphere) about 200 F cooler than Mercury. HERE

Where is the for-profit motive in these scientific discoveries ? There are Billion$ at stake to argue otherwise.

Accordingly, science has determined that man has contributed 40% of the C02 in the atmosphere since the indust. rev. began in earnest about 1880.

Never said Gore made Billions, but he doesn't have to split his profits several thousand ways, you also forget the speaking engagements and books, plus he is the major stockholder in companies that sell bogus things like carbon offsets that let the rich pollute all they want to because they help make him one of them.

PS when caught with a house that had the carbon footprint of some towns Gore said it was ok because he bought carbon offsets, but he bought them from himself.




mnottertail -> RE: Dem wants to jail scientists who question global warming (9/29/2015 10:33:30 AM)

Oh, look, another stupid post from the hallucinogenic party.




NorthernGent -> RE: Dem wants to jail scientists who question global warming (9/29/2015 1:18:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

This is how the party of the people works.

www.redstate.com/.../global-warming-sheldon-whitehouse-rico

This is what they did to Capernicus.
If they are wrong, but I keep hearing it is the conservatives and Republicans who are extreme and want to lock up people they disagree with.




Just a small anecdote I thought I'd drop in:

Was in the steam room the other morning before going to work and there was a lass in the corner.

Just said: "Morning, how are you keeping?" and we got chatting.

Somehow we got round to global warming and the planet, and on reflection she looked the type: no make up, thin, the type who makes tea out of nettles that sort of thing.

I said human beings are very arrogant in thinking they can destroy a thing that is far more powerful than a species that largely is happy with fridge magnets and pizzas: the earth will destroy us, not the other way 'round.

One of the worst decisions I have made in a long time, because for the next 15 minutes she hardly took breath in telling me how we were are going to kill the earth unless we begin to live in a hole in the ground. Not quite in those words but that was the message.

Not much you can say to these people apart from: "right-o see, you again" as you make an excuse to leave.

These people aren't reasonable. They need a cause. Today we're going to kill the earth; tomorrow it will be some other cause.
"






BamaD -> RE: Dem wants to jail scientists who question global warming (9/29/2015 1:59:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

This is how the party of the people works.

www.redstate.com/.../global-warming-sheldon-whitehouse-rico

This is what they did to Capernicus.
If they are wrong, but I keep hearing it is the conservatives and Republicans who are extreme and want to lock up people they disagree with.




Just a small anecdote I thought I'd drop in:

Was in the steam room the other morning before going to work and there was a lass in the corner.

Just said: "Morning, how are you keeping?" and we got chatting.

Somehow we got round to global warming and the planet, and on reflection she looked the type: no make up, thin, the type who makes tea out of nettles that sort of thing.

I said human beings are very arrogant in thinking they can destroy a thing that is far more powerful than a species that largely is happy with fridge magnets and pizzas: the earth will destroy us, not the other way 'round.

One of the worst decisions I have made in a long time, because for the next 15 minutes she hardly took breath in telling me how we were are going to kill the earth unless we begin to live in a hole in the ground. Not quite in those words but that was the message.

Not much you can say to these people apart from: "right-o see, you again" as you make an excuse to leave.

These people aren't reasonable. They need a cause. Today we're going to kill the earth; tomorrow it will be some other cause.
"




The only thing I can add is that I like your steam rooms.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Dem wants to jail scientists who question global warming (9/29/2015 5:12:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


You mean like Al Gore who has gotten rich(er) off of man made globle warming.

I love it when people bring up Algore making money off global warming.

Al Gore makes as much money in his lifetime promoting AGW as Exxon/Mobile makes in about an hour denying it.

And people say "Follow the money".

I say it doesn't matter. Wanna know why?




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