RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (Full Version)

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Danemora -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/26/2017 9:38:54 AM)

~FRing it~

What I think is that how we all view Trump pardoning Arpaio might not matter as much as the feelings of those who were targets of Arpaio's policies when he headed the MCSO. Hispanics are a pretty huge voting bloc




BoscoX -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/26/2017 9:41:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Danemora

~FRing it~

What I think is that how we all view Trump pardoning Arpaio might not matter as much as the feelings of those who were targets of Arpaio's policies when he headed the MCSO. Hispanics are a pretty huge voting bloc


Yeah, I know. Good point. You are such a deep thinker, I am in awe

A Republican could never win without the Hispanic vote

The Republicans might want to consider abandoning white voters altogether, just like the Democrats have done

Go no-borders Marxists all the way




PeonForHer -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/26/2017 9:46:47 AM)

FR

A sensitive and diplomatic move by the President, doubtless done to calm burgeoning racial tensions and hostility towards state institutions in the USA; demonstrating, once again, his political wisdom and acuity. [:)]




Musicmystery -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/26/2017 9:50:00 AM)

And done without his own justice department.

Because oh no government!




Nnanji -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/26/2017 10:01:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

A sensitive and diplomatic move by the President, doubtless done to calm burgeoning racial tensions and hostility towards state institutions in the USA; demonstrating, once again, his political wisdom and acuity. [:)]

Your comment might be the only lefty comment so far that actually has some sense to it.




vincentML -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/26/2017 10:05:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

A sensitive and diplomatic move by the President, doubtless done to calm burgeoning racial tensions and hostility towards state institutions in the USA; demonstrating, once again, his political wisdom and acuity. [:)]

Your comment might be the only lefty comment so far that actually has some sense to it.

No, that has to be sarcasm!




Real0ne -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/26/2017 10:12:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

In my opinion he was a great sheriff and deserved a pardon. Right on Mr. President.



Sooo.... making people wear pink undies... having them live in tents in sweltering heat is your idea of law?

As far as the rest goes right or wrong we must all follow the laws of the land. If every sheriff can decide on his own what the law is then we will have anarchy. Trump has given another signal to racists that it is ok to flaunt the law... he will have their backs... until it is no longer politically advantageous anyway.

Butch




wtf are you smokin? Point me to this imaginary land where politicians follow the law of the land.

anarchy is not lawlessness







Real0ne -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/26/2017 10:13:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Lucy.... you should know... the Constitution only applies to Trump Republicans.... and racists.... same thing it seems i guess.

Butch



yeh they are the only ones that try to follow it as it was intended

you can cry and rant, you dont like the constitution amend it




vincentML -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/26/2017 10:17:12 AM)

quote:

Arpaio didn't round up anyone. He instructed his Deputies to consider whether or not a person may be illigal while they performed their regular duties. Of course the left can stretch that into rounding up.


They were trying to enforce an illegal state law. Illegal because the federal court said it was illegal. The sheriffs tent city was overloaded with brown skin people.

quote:

won every lawsuit against him because the tent ails were exactly how out military were living in Iraq, Afghanistan and other ME countries. What was good enough for our troops was good enough for criminals.


And innocent but poor brown skinned people who can't afford bail.

And what, now our civil rights are measured by conditions in the battlefield? Conservatives have a strange sense of Liberty .




MrRodgers -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/26/2017 10:18:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Obama pardoned 1,715 felons during his tenure, more that any previous president. 273 federal inmates in one day. You or Vincent didn't seem to have a problem with that.

According to what I've read and a lot so far, this is unprecedented. No person found to have violated a federal court order has ever been pardoned before.

Now officers all over the country know they can go very far in their ruthlessness even then violate a future federal court order...and very likely, get away with it while Trump is in office.




Real0ne -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/26/2017 10:19:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

But that didn't matter to Donald Trump as he pushed a shiv through the heart of the American justice [Just-us] system.



oh yes the JUST-US system of extortion collusion rico and constitutional destruction.




MrRodgers -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/26/2017 10:23:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Obama pardoned 1,715 felons during his tenure, more that any previous president. 273 federal inmates in one day. You or Vincent didn't seem to have a problem with that.


Why Did Obama Free This Terrorist?

Oscar Lopez was one of the most violent extremists of his time. The fact that Obama commuted his sentence doesn’t speak well of U.S. politics.


On January 17, 2017, as one of the final acts of his presidency, Barack Obama commuted the sentence of 74-year-old Oscar Lopez Rivera, the Puerto Rican nationalist who had served 35 years of a 55-year conviction for the crime of “seditious conspiracy,” as well as attempted robbery, explosives and vehicle-theft charges. Thanks to Obama’s intercession, Lopez will be freed in May.

In some quarters, Obama’s decision was greeted with elation. Spontaneous celebrations broke out in San Juan. Luis Gutiérrez, a Democratic congressman from Illinois who represents the West Side Chicago neighborhood in which Lopez grew up, said in a statement that he was “overjoyed and overwhelmed” by Lopez’s release. “Oscar is a friend, a mentor, and family to me,” wrote Gutierrez. According to the New York Daily News, Melissa Mark-Viverito, the speaker of the New York City Council and a rising Democratic Party star, cried when she heard the news, calling Lopez’s release “incredible” and a “morale boost” for Puerto Rico. Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, who lobbied hard for Lopez’s commutation, and New York Mayor Bill de Blasio both offered Obama their thanks. And Lin Manuel Miranda, who has been a vocal proponent for Lopez, tweeted that he was “sobbing with gratitude.” (He furthermore added that he would reprise his role in “Hamilton” for one night in Chicago in Lopez’s honor.)


Lopez’s supporters refer to him as a “political prisoner” or “independence activist,” and characterize him as a man unfairly and harshly targeted by the U.S. government for his beliefs. He has even been called “Puerto Rico’s Nelson Mandela.”

The truth, alas, is considerably darker than that.

Most Americans may not have heard of Lopez, or the organization he helped lead, the Fuerzas Armadas de Liberación Nacional (FALN), a radical Marxist Puerto Rican independence group. With the focus of post-9/11 terrorism falling almost exclusively on Islamist radicals, the violent nationalists of yesteryear—Puerto Rican, Cuban, Croatian and Jewish—have faded into obscurity. But during the FALN’s explosive heyday under Lopez’s leadership, the group was anything but obscure. In fact, from 1974, when the group announced itself with its first bombings, to 1983, when arrests finally destroyed its membership base, the FALN was the most organized, active, well-trained and deadly domestic terror group based in the United States.

The FALN was responsible for over 130 bombings during this period, including the January 1975 explosion in Manhattan’s historic Fraunces Tavern, which killed four and wounded 63. In October of that year, it set off, all within the span of an hour, 10 bombs in three cities, causing nearly a million dollars in damage. In August 1977, the FALN set off a series of bombs in Manhattan, forcing 100,000 workers to evacuate their offices; one person was killed, and six were injured. In 1979, the group even threatened to blow up the Indian Point nuclear energy facility located north of New York City. It later sent a communiqué warning the U.S. to “remember … that you have never experienced war on your vitals and that you have many nuclear reactors.” In 1980, FALN members stormed the Carter-Mondale election headquarters in Chicago, and the George H.W. Bush campaign headquarters in New York, holding employees there hostage at gunpoint. In 1981, they plotted to kidnap President Reagan’s son Ron. Plainly, the group was deadly serious about its objectives—a free, independent and socialist Puerto Rico—and zealous in its pursuit of them.

According to court documents, thoughout this time, Lopez, a Vietnam War veteran, was part of FALN’s “Central Command”—a member of the “triumvirate” that led the organization. In 1976, Lopez became a fugitive when federal investigators discovered a “bomb factory” in an apartment he had rented in Chicago. He would evade arrest for the next five years, actively planning robberies and training FALN members. According to the summary of the testimony of Alfredo Mendez, an FALN member who later became a government witness, Lopez even gave new members bomb-making lessons.

More


He did 35 fucking years. Just what was he supposed to do ? It was not a pardon but a commutation.




Nnanji -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/26/2017 10:24:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

A sensitive and diplomatic move by the President, doubtless done to calm burgeoning racial tensions and hostility towards state institutions in the USA; demonstrating, once again, his political wisdom and acuity. [:)]

Your comment might be the only lefty comment so far that actually has some sense to it.

No, that has to be sarcasm!

I understood Peon and accepted the point. Sorry you missed that, but I do, from time to time accept dissenting opinion.




Real0ne -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/26/2017 10:27:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Obama pardoned 1,715 felons during his tenure, more that any previous president. 273 federal inmates in one day. You or Vincent didn't seem to have a problem with that.

According to what I've read and a lot so far, this is unprecedented. No person found to have violated a federal court order has ever been pardoned before.

Now officers all over the country know they can go very far in their ruthlessness even then violate a future federal court order...and very likely, get away with it while Trump is in office.



then take the powers of presidential pardon away, since he acted within standing law.




Real0ne -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/26/2017 10:28:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Obama pardoned 1,715 felons during his tenure, more that any previous president. 273 federal inmates in one day. You or Vincent didn't seem to have a problem with that.


Why Did Obama Free This Terrorist?

Oscar Lopez was one of the most violent extremists of his time. The fact that Obama commuted his sentence doesn’t speak well of U.S. politics.


On January 17, 2017, as one of the final acts of his presidency, Barack Obama commuted the sentence of 74-year-old Oscar Lopez Rivera, the Puerto Rican nationalist who had served 35 years of a 55-year conviction for the crime of “seditious conspiracy,” as well as attempted robbery, explosives and vehicle-theft charges. Thanks to Obama’s intercession, Lopez will be freed in May.

In some quarters, Obama’s decision was greeted with elation. Spontaneous celebrations broke out in San Juan. Luis Gutiérrez, a Democratic congressman from Illinois who represents the West Side Chicago neighborhood in which Lopez grew up, said in a statement that he was “overjoyed and overwhelmed” by Lopez’s release. “Oscar is a friend, a mentor, and family to me,” wrote Gutierrez. According to the New York Daily News, Melissa Mark-Viverito, the speaker of the New York City Council and a rising Democratic Party star, cried when she heard the news, calling Lopez’s release “incredible” and a “morale boost” for Puerto Rico. Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, who lobbied hard for Lopez’s commutation, and New York Mayor Bill de Blasio both offered Obama their thanks. And Lin Manuel Miranda, who has been a vocal proponent for Lopez, tweeted that he was “sobbing with gratitude.” (He furthermore added that he would reprise his role in “Hamilton” for one night in Chicago in Lopez’s honor.)


Lopez’s supporters refer to him as a “political prisoner” or “independence activist,” and characterize him as a man unfairly and harshly targeted by the U.S. government for his beliefs. He has even been called “Puerto Rico’s Nelson Mandela.”

The truth, alas, is considerably darker than that.

Most Americans may not have heard of Lopez, or the organization he helped lead, the Fuerzas Armadas de Liberación Nacional (FALN), a radical Marxist Puerto Rican independence group. With the focus of post-9/11 terrorism falling almost exclusively on Islamist radicals, the violent nationalists of yesteryear—Puerto Rican, Cuban, Croatian and Jewish—have faded into obscurity. But during the FALN’s explosive heyday under Lopez’s leadership, the group was anything but obscure. In fact, from 1974, when the group announced itself with its first bombings, to 1983, when arrests finally destroyed its membership base, the FALN was the most organized, active, well-trained and deadly domestic terror group based in the United States.

The FALN was responsible for over 130 bombings during this period, including the January 1975 explosion in Manhattan’s historic Fraunces Tavern, which killed four and wounded 63. In October of that year, it set off, all within the span of an hour, 10 bombs in three cities, causing nearly a million dollars in damage. In August 1977, the FALN set off a series of bombs in Manhattan, forcing 100,000 workers to evacuate their offices; one person was killed, and six were injured. In 1979, the group even threatened to blow up the Indian Point nuclear energy facility located north of New York City. It later sent a communiqué warning the U.S. to “remember … that you have never experienced war on your vitals and that you have many nuclear reactors.” In 1980, FALN members stormed the Carter-Mondale election headquarters in Chicago, and the George H.W. Bush campaign headquarters in New York, holding employees there hostage at gunpoint. In 1981, they plotted to kidnap President Reagan’s son Ron. Plainly, the group was deadly serious about its objectives—a free, independent and socialist Puerto Rico—and zealous in its pursuit of them.

According to court documents, thoughout this time, Lopez, a Vietnam War veteran, was part of FALN’s “Central Command”—a member of the “triumvirate” that led the organization. In 1976, Lopez became a fugitive when federal investigators discovered a “bomb factory” in an apartment he had rented in Chicago. He would evade arrest for the next five years, actively planning robberies and training FALN members. According to the summary of the testimony of Alfredo Mendez, an FALN member who later became a government witness, Lopez even gave new members bomb-making lessons.

More


He did 35 fucking years. Just what was he supposed to do ? It was not a pardon but a commutation.




in substance the same thing, you are arguing over timing.




MrRodgers -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/26/2017 10:30:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji


quote:

ORIGINAL: bostonpolarbear


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

He violated constitutional rights, he is a racist pig, and trump is giving him a pass...
who is surprised,



His crime was enforcing the laws that Obama refused to enforce....



When did violating constitutional rights become "the law".

Pardons are for mercy or for those who were treated unfairly by the law. Arpaio was a sheriff, whose duty was to follow the law, who *unfairly treated" others by using "the law" illegally.

. . .



Arpaio didn't violate anyone's constitution rights. He violated the far left's sense of hate. In your world when a Deputy Sheriff pulls over a Latino who can't speak English and has no drivers license he should let that guy go or it's racist hate. It's not in mine.

Typical righty. You and your political buddies get to cherry pic just what court rulings are ok and based on the judge being a lefty or black or latino and again typically, your partisan, political prejudices.




Real0ne -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/26/2017 10:33:26 AM)

The people have the rightful authority and are the final judge of the judges.




Nnanji -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/26/2017 10:36:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Arpaio didn't round up anyone. He instructed his Deputies to consider whether or not a person may be illigal while they performed their regular duties. Of course the left can stretch that into rounding up.


They were trying to enforce an illegal state law. Illegal because the federal court said it was illegal. The sheriffs tent city was overloaded with brown skin people.

quote:

won every lawsuit against him because the tent ails were exactly how out military were living in Iraq, Afghanistan and other ME countries. What was good enough for our troops was good enough for criminals.


And innocent but poor brown skinned people who can't afford bail.

And what, now our civil rights are measured by conditions in the battlefield? Conservatives have a strange sense of Liberty .

I believ you are wrong. I believe what the federal court said was illigal was a state sending officers to the border to perform boarder patrol duties. I may be wrong, but I don't believe any federal court said it was illigal for any law enforcement officer to enforce any law while performing normal duties.

I grant your point about poor brown skinned people not being able to afford bail, but as Arpaio turned them over to federal authorities as soon as the federal authorities made themselves available, they never had to go through the Maracipa County system.

In many jurisdictions, and I'll google and cite a myriad examples if you haven't heard of them, they have been releasing criminals to the streets because of over crowding in the jails and prisons. I believe making new facilities, with at least the comfort that is used for our troops, was preferable to releasing criminals due to lack of space.

Keep in mind that the loonie left sued Araio and lost many times. It wasn't until they made it a racial issue and used Obama zealous prosecutors that the left finally won one.




MrRodgers -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/26/2017 10:39:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Another difference between conservatives and "liberals" - Obama freed terrorists, while Arpaio patrolled the border doing Obama's job of keeping potential terrorists and other criminals out


Too bad you can't argue the point of this thread without making some unwarranted comparison to Pres. Obama and the issue of terrorists. In the eight years that Obama was president we were protected from foreign terrorists. What was going on with this sheriff in Arizona is that he was massively picking up brown skinned people and throwing them into his concentration camp if they were not carrying proof of citizenship. In other words, he was enforcing federal law by profiling, and he had no business enforcing federal law.

As I said earlier, this is just another example of Trump's disdain for our institutions. As a candidate or as president he has picked fights with our intelligence services, with the House and the Senate, with our Courts, and with most of the institutions that work to apply the rule of law. If the rest of the nation were asleep Trump could easily become a dictator. Because that's how fascism works.

Trump's very low satisfaction ratings under 37% show that at least 63% of the population is aware of the importance of the rule of law in our country and in any democracy.



pro·fil·ing
ˈprōˌfīliNG/
noun
noun: profiling

the recording and analysis of a person's psychological and behavioral characteristics, so as to assess or predict their capabilities in a certain sphere or to assist in identifying a particular subgroup of people.


what case can be made about ANYTHING without some level and degree of profiling vince.

was he profiling for the purpose of race or illegal activity?

on the other hand you cant just stop someone because they are mexican or whatever, but you can stop someone who looks like a pimp or drug dealer.

remember the measuring stick today is no longer probable cause, its probable suspicion, brought about in violation of the constitution by your liberal courts

so edumacate us on the RULE OF LAW.



sus·pi·cion
səˈspiSHən/
noun
noun: suspicion; plural noun: suspicions

1.
a feeling or thought that something is possible, likely, or true.

Typically, you too feel as a matter of politics and your subjective denigration of it, that it is only liberal judges that have somehow brought us 'probable suspicion' which sounds exactly like what the sheriff was doing.

So which is it ? Liberal judges allow probable suspicion as a legal way to proceed or is it liberal judges that hold those who do that in contempt of a ruling specifically ordering law offices to stop doing ?




MrRodgers -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/26/2017 10:40:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

nm. waste of pixels.

I agree. Most of what is here too.




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