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Contracts - who uses them? - 8/20/2006 3:57:06 AM   
Wanderer08


Posts: 9
Joined: 7/13/2006
Status: offline 		Hey all
 
I recently had a slave ask what my kinks were and after chatting I sent her an email with them listed.  Her response that it looked like a good contract - although I just wrote it as a list.
 
Since then I have fleshed it out into (what I think is a pretty good) contract.
 
In the past few days I have showed it to a few people, and now others have asked me to write contracts for them in their relationships - but for most I think it's just because it adds a layer to an existing relationship.
 
I was wondering though - do many of you 24/7 Master/ slaves (or Dom(me)/subs?) opperate within contracts in your relationships?  Or am I just more formal in my approach?
 
Thanks in advance,
Wanderer
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Contracts - who uses them? - 8/20/2006 4:01:49 AM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		Although it goes back many years now, I have written a contract that I still show people from time to time.  I don't usually use it, however many of its issues I bring into a relationship.

Jeff

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RE: Contracts - who uses them? - 8/20/2006 9:23:05 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		I insist on training contracts that are rather long -- 6 pages -- because it lets the person I'm training have a sort of manual on what I expect and what I will teach. It can be a very useful guide to them.

If the relationship progresses, my contracts become shorter, the old rules and rituals never disappear but we just review and renew writing out only what we feel is necessary.

I would never use another person's contract -- I think a really good contract is one that you create yourself and which then can be adjusted to the individual you are with. You can use other contracts as examples but I, myself, would never write one for anyone else nor would I personally feel very positively about someone who photocopied a contract to use that was written by someone else or asked someone outside their relationship to write one.

Writing one should be a learning and growing experience, a way to help you figure out what works and does not work for you at that time.

A good contract should be realistic and flexible without being vague. If the dominant can't remember all the parts to it, then she shouldn't use it, it should be a guide line and way to help someone learn to serve, I don't think it should be a means of enforcing your will when the will to serve or be together is gone.

Oh, and I also don't personally think a checklist or lists of kinks or limits is the same as a contract. I think a contract includes much more.

enough rambling

< Message edited by thetammyjo -- 8/20/2006 9:24:06 AM >

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RE: Contracts - who uses them? - 8/20/2006 9:51:52 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		The nearest that I have is the understanding that:-
she submits to My control because she trusts in who I am and how I use that control, if she should ever loose that trust she will had back My collar and will no longer be Mine. Until then she obays to the best of her ability. End of.


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

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RE: Contracts - who uses them? - 8/20/2006 11:14:34 AM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wanderer08
I was wondering though - do many of you 24/7 Master/ slaves (or Dom(me)/subs?) opperate within contracts in your relationships? Or am I just more formal in my approach?


I tend to deem them more as agreements or undertakings, which are signed and documented. The term contract is in fact a hazardous misnomer. If things come under the scrutiny of the authorities, it at best may display the state of mind both parties were in at the time of said events, but it gives no outright legal protection whatsoever. What such an agreement certainly does is serve as a framework of words as to what is expected in the arrangement. I don't consider such a pact formal at all—it in fact makes a lot of sense. I just feel we all need to step away from the word "contract".




< Message edited by amayos -- 8/20/2006 11:17:29 AM >

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RE: Contracts - who uses them? - 8/20/2006 12:00:33 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wanderer08
I was wondering though - do many of you 24/7 Master/ slaves (or Dom(me)/subs?) opperate within contracts in your relationships? Or am I just more formal in my approach?


I tend to deem them more as agreements or undertakings, which are signed and documented. The term contract is in fact a hazardous misnomer. If things come under the scrutiny of the authorities, it at best may display the state of mind both parties were in at the time of said events, but it gives no outright legal protection whatsoever. What such an agreement certainly does is serve as a framework of words as to what is expected in the arrangement. I don't consider such a pact formal at all—it in fact makes a lot of sense. I just feel we all need to step away from the word "contract".





 Ya know something?   Im one of those contractaphobes,  but when you put it this way, well...it makes perfect sense and doesn't sound so 'out there'.  < I just wish someone else had said it.>

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RE: Contracts - who uses them? - 8/20/2006 12:14:39 PM   
Littlepita


Posts: 1430
Joined: 10/6/2005
Status: offline 		My Sir, JassWolf, wrote our contract. We do use it and review it every three months to make sure we are still where we want to be or if something needs to be changed. I think it's a good thing for a new D/s relationship in helping both parties stay focused on what it is they want.

_____________________________

“I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” – Anais Nin

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RE: Contracts - who uses them? - 8/20/2006 12:22:06 PM   
Slipstreme


Posts: 817
Joined: 1/1/2006
Status: offline 		We have a contract, but it is mainly for traditions sake than anything.

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Painslut? How about "Endorphin Junkie"?

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RE: Contracts - who uses them? - 8/20/2006 12:36:42 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		http://www.collarchat.com/m_537964/mpage_1/key_contract/tm.htm#537987
contracts (5)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_507069/mpage_1/key_CONTRACTS/tm.htm#507258
contracts

http://www.collarchat.com/m_484623/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#485005
contracts, necessary or not?

http://www.collarchat.com/tm.asp?m=425700&mpage=1&key=contracts&#425768
bdsm contracts

http://www.collarchat.com/m_15441/mpage_1/key_contract/tm.htm#15441
Master/slave contract

http://www.collarchat.com/m_21514/mpage_1/key_contract/tm.htm#21514
CONTRACT

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1001/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#1001
Contracts for servitude the good, the bad, And why is it so different between Masters n Mistresses?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1108/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#1108
Contracts?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_17858/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#17858
Should slaves be able to submit to legally binding slave contracts?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_20389/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#20389
Enforcable "slave" contracts

http://www.collarchat.com/m_22380/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#22380
Contracts (AGAIN *LOL*)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_24502/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#24502
Breaking COntracts

http://www.collarchat.com/m_34466/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#34466
Contracts for sub

http://www.collarchat.com/m_46146/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#46146
Contracts (2)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_82470/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#82470
Service "contracts" (no it isn't about legality)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_93072/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#93072
slave contracts

http://www.collarchat.com/m_96407/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#96407
Contracts, again...

http://www.collarchat.com/m_111463/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#111463
written contracts?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_111845/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#111845
The question of written contracts

http://www.collarchat.com/m_162840/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#162840
merging wedding vows and Ds contracts

http://www.collarchat.com/m_212413/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#212413
Contracts (3)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_278323/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#278323
Dom/sub written contracts

http://www.collarchat.com/m_287421/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#287421
slave contracts, good examples needed

http://www.collarchat.com/m_71935/mpage_1/key_contract/tm.htm#71935
D/s contract

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RE: Contracts - who uses them? - 8/21/2006 6:50:01 AM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		I use a contract...a pretty extensive one. Some people like to keep it simple and basically have a one-pager. Others, like me, are much more wordy and like to have things spelled out. I'll probably gravitate towards something simple as I get older!

My Household Manual becomes our contract once we review and initial each page. Here's an online copy, if anyone would like to take a look. Go get a cup of coffee or something. It'll take a while, if you're really going to read the whole thing. LOL

The House of Fire

Master Fire


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The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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Ms Relationship Books
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BDSM How-To Books

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RE: Contracts - who uses them? - 8/22/2006 10:12:25 AM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos


I tend to deem them more as agreements or undertakings, which are signed and documented. The term contract is in fact a hazardous misnomer. If things come under the scrutiny of the authorities, it at best may display the state of mind both parties were in at the time of said events, but it gives no outright legal protection whatsoever. What such an agreement certainly does is serve as a framework of words as to what is expected in the arrangement. I don't consider such a pact formal at all—it in fact makes a lot of sense. I just feel we all need to step away from the word "contract".



Ya know something? Im one of those contractaphobes, but when you put it this way, well...it makes perfect sense and doesn't sound so 'out there'. < I just wish someone else had said it.>


Oh, worry not. I'm sure I'll still continue to be the dominant male you love to hate.

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Contracts - who uses them? - 8/22/2006 10:25:35 AM   
Voltare


Posts: 841
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Santiago, Chile
Status: offline 		Not me.

I don't train casually, and am monogamous.  gretchen and I know each other well enough, that a contract would be redundent.  I've nothing against them, and encourage anyone involved in BDSM to consider their use - though in my experience, if you're looking for love on top of Ds, contracts can be a serious obstacle.  Focusing on the romantic, emotional elements first make contracts unnecessary.

Stephan


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"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

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RE: Contracts - who uses them? - 8/22/2006 12:14:51 PM   
Leonardo


Posts: 113
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline 		Whenever two or more parties come together, whereby there exists an offer, acceptance, and consideration, and a meeting of minds has occured, then there exists a contract. Whether or not the contract is a legally binding oral or written instrument is dependent upon the legal or illegal performances of the contract in itself, or parts, thereof.

A properly written contract could very well later on prove invaluable, should the other party to the relationship decide to clandestinely make problems, since it can be used as evidence of consent between the parties. Contrary to popular belief, even an oral agreement is valid to an extent.

And, contrary to popular belief in here, a contract, as long as there exists no illegality in purpose, can actually be a legally binding instrument to an extent, be it oral or written. So there should be a Caveat Emptor when writing a contract or making a verbal accord (which may be considered as a binding contract as long as the benefits derived from entering into the contract are mutual and equitable.

Leonardo

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RE: Contracts - who uses them? - 8/22/2006 12:49:47 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

though in my experience, if you're looking for love on top of Ds, contracts can be a serious obstacle.  Focusing on the romantic, emotional elements first make contracts unnecessary.

 
Stephan,
I find the point you make regarding "romantic, emotional elements" is the reason that contracts are not only a good idea but necessary especially at the beginning of a relationship. Most often when people meet it's all about romance and emotions with the hope and possibility of it blossoming into love. "Most often" at least is a when an ongoing relationship is a common goal. Usually both parties are on their "best behavior" trying to make a good impression. You share smiles, relate experiences, and discuss things openly. What better time to establish an understanding of each other's expectations and image of the "ideal" relationship?

Consider that most, if not all, consummated and publicly acknowledged relationships have "contracts". Within the context of marriage they are called "vows", there is no difference, except most people can't remember and don't expect to live by those vows, even when they've authored them. Most of the time it's for the audience, not for the couple. An important distinction with a lifestyle contract primarily for only the people involved.

A contract taken serious between a Dom/sub, or Master/slave is a relationship foundation that can be a relationship guide as well as a reference when problems come up. It reminds the parties involved, because they don't necessarily have to be limited to two people, of what was important enough to write down when the romance and emotions ran at a fever pitch. It established a place to go in your mind to focus on what should be the highest importance in your life when life's distractions try to distract you.

Yes, beth and I have a "Contract" with rules. We are fast approaching the third anniversary of our signing it. Signed and framed, it's hung and holds a place of prominence in our home.

I don't say a contract is, or should be a requirement. Out of the gate, the process sure is a great way to gain deep insight about your potential mate. Ongoing it is a good tool for focus. Ultimately it provides a nostalgic physical written reminder that may help bring back memories harder to remember as the years pass. Are any of these things bad? beth reads out-loud our contract every day as part of a daily ritual I have for her. Redundant? Of course YES! Some of life's redundancies aren't so bad and negative. Sometimes something redundant daily is stabilizing and anticipated with pleasure.

Not trying to convince you or anyone, just trying to provide an alternative perspective to the nay sayers.

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RE: Contracts - who uses them? - 8/22/2006 12:50:01 PM   
AnAtlantaDom


Posts: 98
Joined: 7/13/2006
Status: offline 		Leonardo

You have written in "legaleze" this suggests you are in the legal profession in some way.  As I recall there have been several cases before judges & a BDSM contract was thrown out as evidence.

AD

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RE: Contracts - who uses them? - 8/22/2006 12:55:54 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I use contracts when I buy and sell real estate.  Oh, and sometimes I do short-term contract work.

Otherwise no.

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RE: Contracts - who uses them? - 8/22/2006 1:15:50 PM   
soldierfunuk


Posts: 56
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		Mistress Angel and I do have a contract.  It was written by both of us and is a living document in so much as it can be reviewed and changed at anytime, things get added although noting has been taken away yet.

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RE: Contracts - who uses them? - 8/22/2006 8:07:02 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos


I tend to deem them more as agreements or undertakings, which are signed and documented. The term contract is in fact a hazardous misnomer. If things come under the scrutiny of the authorities, it at best may display the state of mind both parties were in at the time of said events, but it gives no outright legal protection whatsoever. What such an agreement certainly does is serve as a framework of words as to what is expected in the arrangement. I don't consider such a pact formal at all—it in fact makes a lot of sense. I just feel we all need to step away from the word "contract".



Ya know something? Im one of those contractaphobes, but when you put it this way, well...it makes perfect sense and doesn't sound so 'out there'. < I just wish someone else had said it.>


Oh, worry not. I'm sure I'll still continue to be the dominant male you love to hate.


::::biting my tongue:::: 

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RE: Contracts - who uses them? - 8/22/2006 8:16:50 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline 		I dont think contracts are necessarily for legal purposes, as usually they are ineffective legally..however for purposes of what the 2 have agreed upon it makes for a nice reference point if somthing comes about ie:..the "but I never agreed to that"..etc. etc...and reviewing it every so often never comes amiss as things do change in the course of any relationship and eventually as someone said it becomes redundant...Then there is also as mercnbeth said a kind of memory thing where it reflects the beginnings of their lives together..be well...Tempting

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RE: Contracts - who uses them? - 8/23/2006 4:26:26 AM   
Leonardo


Posts: 113
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AnAtlantaDom

Leonardo

You have written in "legaleze" this suggests you are in the legal profession in some way.  As I recall there have been several cases before judges & a BDSM contract was thrown out as evidence.

AD


A BDSM contract is not one which serves a legal purpose; however, a D/s contract can be written in a way that it does; therefore, it can be a legal instrument.

Moreover, as stated earlier in this thread by me, it is important to know that with any written instrument, there are associated consequential risks.

Leonardo

< Message edited by Leonardo -- 8/23/2006 4:28:16 AM >

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