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BDSM Contracts - 6/13/2006 2:30:00 PM   
SlavesServeHer


Posts: 10
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline 		Are BDSM contracts a must? Do you think they work? I'm for them as long as they are updated from time to time
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RE: BDSM Contracts - 6/13/2006 2:46:55 PM   
SmokeyM


Posts: 120
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		Contracts aren't always a must. Some like to use them as a starting point to know what eachother want and expect. Though mostly if you and your partner are communicating honestly and openly a contract is per optional.
~Smokey

(in reply to SlavesServeHer)
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RE: BDSM Contracts - 6/13/2006 2:57:44 PM   
PlayfulOne


Posts: 1047
Status: offline 		We don't have a contract and I would see no need for us to have one.  We have more than enough open communication to keep everything moving along.

K

(in reply to SmokeyM)
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RE: BDSM Contracts - 6/13/2006 3:01:34 PM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SlavesServeHer

Are BDSM contracts a must? Do you think they work? I'm for them as long as they are updated from time to time




The "contract" portion of BDSM contract is a misnomer of sorts, due to its strong legal connotation. I usually prefer to call it an agreement, binding of consensual slavery, or an undertaking, the contents of which show the intent and state of mind between the two parties it addresses.

Are so-called contracts a must? Certainly not. Ultimately, tilling the mind is far more important than signing agreements, as eloquently written they may be. Do such agreements work? Each one of them has for me. I can't speak for others, however. We all do things differently.

< Message edited by amayos -- 6/13/2006 3:08:34 PM >

(in reply to SlavesServeHer)
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RE: BDSM Contracts - 6/13/2006 3:07:13 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SlavesServeHer

Are BDSM contracts a must? Do you think they work? I'm for them as long as they are updated from time to time


Well, the only contract I have ever had, took me hours and hours to draw up and revise, and the day we were going to put it in place, the dominant chose to push something that he knew wasn't covered in the contract, but that he had verbally promised not to push. (Always a loophole!)

Needless to say, I never signed that contract. It landed up in the recycling bin, and I got accused of not being a real slave.

Ah well, his loss.

Personally, I think they might work for some people, but I've yet to really feel the need for one. I think ongoing careful negotiation, and communication, work best for me.

_____________________________

Cin

quote:


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RE: BDSM Contracts - 6/13/2006 3:09:59 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SlavesServeHer
Are BDSM contracts a must?

No
quote:

 Do you think they work? I'm for them as long as they are updated from time to time

For the most part it's pretty words that show a person's intentions and feelings towards another.

But, like wedding vows, for people who take it seriously, who actually work it out together, not just slap a few itnernet passages on it and sign it with heart-dotted i's, who take it out and refurbish it every few months, who take the time to really think through the consequences of what they are agreeing to- yes it can be quite useful.

I find most people just like the idea of contracts and end up feeling trapped by them- just like so many like the idea of being collared only to find the situation completely wrong a few months later.

I don't have a use for contracts myself.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: BDSM Contracts - 6/13/2006 3:23:33 PM   
hmmmmnbird


Posts: 51
Joined: 1/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I find most people just like the idea of contracts and end up feeling trapped by them- just like so many like the idea of being collared only to find the situation completely wrong a few months later.


I found exactly the opposite to be true. Only when we had an actual written contract, with a specified date to revisit it, could I let go and submit. (Of course, if you ask Him, I still didn't then, and there's some truth to that).
We both knew it wasn't legally binding, but it was both of us giving our word, and that's binding for us.
Having that date allowed me to stop feeling trapped. I made a commitment, for a specified period of time, and I kept it, knowing that there was an "out" coming.  When it came time to renogiate, I knew slavery wasn't for me, and we have moved on as friends. I think without the contract, we would not have been able to move on without rancor.
In answer to the original question "are they a must";  I don't thing anything is "a must". Each relationship is different.
Bunnie

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: BDSM Contracts - 6/13/2006 3:48:30 PM   
SlavesServeHer


Posts: 10
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline 		Lucky & hmmmm,

I totaly agree with you about the contract or as someonelse said here "agreement". It gives me the guide lines at beginning but of course no legal bond.

(in reply to hmmmmnbird)
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RE: BDSM Contracts - 6/13/2006 3:57:00 PM   
akisha


Posts: 2071
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline 		I've never used a contract. I've never felt the need for one. I think it's more of a personal choice of the couple or group involved.

_____________________________

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Your pain makes me smile ~ Happy Bunny

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(in reply to SlavesServeHer)
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RE: BDSM Contracts - 6/13/2006 9:17:20 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		I have been owned for two years without a contract.  And by a lawyer at that!  lol.  He owns everything.  I begged him to. The notion of a contract never came up.

(in reply to SlavesServeHer)
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RE: BDSM Contracts - 6/13/2006 9:47:14 PM   
HarryVanWinkle


Posts: 1720
Joined: 5/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SlavesServeHer
Are BDSM contracts a must? Do you think they work? I'm for them as long as they are updated from time to time


I presume you're asking about written contracts.  If so, I would say that not only are they not necessary, but are potentially dangerous.

They're not necessary, because, being unenforceable by law, they carry no more weight than a spoken agreement.

As to the danger, just last Saturday, we had a seminar at Desert Dominion entitled "Prosecution Proofing your Kink" presented by former Deputy District Attorney from Las Vegas who currently works as a Defense Attorney.  One of his major points was that while a BDSM contract cannot be enforced by law, they can be used against you by law. 

An example:  During a particularly noisey scene, the cops are called by a neighbor, thinking domestic abuse is going on.  When the one of the cops sees the well beaten slave, he gets a hair up his ass and arrests the dominant for domestic abuse or sexual assault.  The dominant and the slave have a written BDSM contract that states, among other things, that the slave has no right to remove consent or set limits.  Legally, no person can give up the right to remove consent and legally anytime a submissive attempts to do so and has it ignored, the scene immediately becomes either sexual assault or domestic abuse.  If the police and the prosccuter decide that the slave did, in fact, mean to remove consent, the contract can be used, in court, as evidence that such assault or abuse is common in the relationship.  Which, of course, could help convict the dominant, even if the slave absolutely refuses to testify against him.

I would highly recommend that if one does use a written contract, that one find a kink friendly criminal attorney and have him check it. 

< Message edited by HarryVanWinkle -- 6/13/2006 9:51:50 PM >

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RE: BDSM Contracts - 6/13/2006 10:22:19 PM   
mastersayed


Posts: 119
Joined: 3/21/2006
Status: offline 		are slave contracts valid in any legal way?

(in reply to SlavesServeHer)
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RE: BDSM Contracts - 6/13/2006 10:27:00 PM   
HarryVanWinkle


Posts: 1720
Joined: 5/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mastersayed

are slave contracts valid in any legal way?


No.

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Profile   Post #: 13
RE: BDSM Contracts - 6/13/2006 10:35:12 PM   
mastersayed


Posts: 119
Joined: 3/21/2006
Status: offline 		then whats the point? oh yeah...the're for people who suck at communicating

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RE: BDSM Contracts - 6/13/2006 10:51:09 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		The value in any contract is in the negotiation.
It's true in legal contratcs as well the purpose of a contract is to formalize what has been agreed on. The agreement comes through negotiations.

The withdrawl of consent is something I address specificly in the contract as well.
The slave can withdraw consent with a specific phrase. The utterence of the p[hrase begins an automatic week of discussion and renegotiation, with the potential for ending the relationship.

I use contracts and I also use petitions mostly so that people can consider what they are agreeing to. Funny how when you see it in writting it makes a difference sometimes.
Also the time between negotiations and signing a contract gives time to think about what you are really doing.

In Leather

Archer

(in reply to HarryVanWinkle)
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RE: BDSM Contracts - 6/13/2006 10:59:41 PM   
MsKatHouston


Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline 		I like contracts because it sets out some basic ground rules and is a nice ritual.  They do not take the place of continual open communication but I just like them.

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to SlavesServeHer)
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RE: BDSM Contracts - 6/13/2006 11:14:31 PM   
HarryVanWinkle


Posts: 1720
Joined: 5/8/2006
Status: offline 		{quick reply}

I am not utterly against the concept of contracts.  I just think people should be very careful about what they say in them.

Most of the contracts I have seen online are garbage, written by somebody with one hand on the keyboard and the other, umm, otherwise engaged.  By which statement, Archer, I do not mean to disparage your contracts.  After all, I haven't read them and from what I've seen of your profile and posts, you seem to have a very good idea of what you're doing.

In the seminar I wrote of above, one of the questions asked was whether having Safe Words or Phrases would help if a cop or prosecuter decided to go after a Dom for abuse or assault.  The answer was, very much so.  Just as a contract specifying the slave's inability to remove consent would help the prosecution make his case for abuse, specifying a Safe Word or Phrase would help  the defense prove that all actions involved were, in fact, consensual.

However, I re-iterate, one must be VERY careful about what's written in any BDSM contract.  Many of the activities of WIITWD are flat out illegal in some jurisdictions.  For instance, it is my understanding that branding a human being is illegal here in Arizona.  Whether or not the brandee consents is irrelevant.  One cannot legally consent to have something illegal done to oneself.  A contract specifying illegal activities would, in the hands of an overzealous cop or prosecuter, help convict a Dominant, even if the so called "victim" swore in court that he consented to the activity.

< Message edited by HarryVanWinkle -- 6/13/2006 11:32:11 PM >

(in reply to MsKatHouston)
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RE: BDSM Contracts - 6/13/2006 11:39:34 PM   
champagnewishes


Posts: 1310
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Orange County
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SlavesServeHer

Are BDSM contracts a must? 
   Only if a Master insists on one.  


quote:


Do you think they work?
   Only if the persons whose name is reflected by their signature(s) on the bottom of the contract make it work.  Otherwise there as useless as wedding vowes are to a nun..... 

_____________________________

Nirvana cannot be described, it is only understood truly by a person who has experienced it.


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RE: BDSM Contracts - 6/13/2006 11:44:18 PM   
HarryVanWinkle


Posts: 1720
Joined: 5/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: champagnewishes
Otherwise there as useless as wedding vowes are to a nun..... 


Or to a serial adulterer.

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Profile   Post #: 19
RE: BDSM Contracts - 6/14/2006 3:36:46 AM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline 		No Contracts for me, EVER.........
I find them comical.  Although I truly believe in well defined rolls
my choice is verbal communication hands down.

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to SlavesServeHer)
Profile   Post #: 20
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