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RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life - 5/9/2007 4:38:35 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		Like you didn't already know that...If I had my way there would be guilt by association and you were share the same fate as your evil spawn.

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RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life - 5/9/2007 11:07:05 PM   
jayded34


Posts: 293
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline 		all i know is she is healthy.......16yrs old.....and not sitting in front of a television eating junk food how can one fault a kid for eating her veggies? lol.........

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RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life - 5/9/2007 11:15:13 PM   
sweetdoll


Posts: 12
Joined: 4/28/2007
Status: offline 		I think I'll clear some things up.

Mother's milk is vegan, stop kidding yourself. Humans are naturally made to consume human's milk (if that wasn't obvious), while they are not cow's milk, but most people choose to. Animals of all mammal species breastfeed their young. The mother of her child gives her breastmilk willingly. Animal products (non-human) are NOT vegan, as these creatures are NOT consenting for us to consume them, and take their milk, urinal secretions, etc... People don't need these things to survive, but they choose to.

This baby didn't die because it wasn't been fed vegan, it died because of malnutrition,, due to a huge lack of nutrients. That doesn't mean the baby needed animal products. If all you feed your baby is cheese, for example, obviously it's going to die. If all you feed it is apples and celery (which is vegan), it will die as well, but not because the food was vegan, but rather because the child didn't get the nutrients they need.

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RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life - 5/9/2007 11:19:55 PM   
sweetdoll


Posts: 12
Joined: 4/28/2007
Status: offline 		Another thing. I find it very offensive that people are always trying to discredit vegans and veganism in general. How many children die every year by malnutrition due to their diet who are NOT vegan? Many, many more. Because of this strange quirk, it's all over the news. Veganism is a very healthy, earth-friendly way of living. Vegans in general are much more likely to be of a healthy weight (not underweight), and have much less incidence of disease and sickness in general.

And to be clear: I do think these parents did something very wrong, and deserve their punishment.

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RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life - 5/9/2007 11:20:35 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		They should get another 10 years for naming their kid "Crown Shakur".
What the hell kind of name it that for a kid?

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RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life - 5/9/2007 11:25:55 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		This is why abortion should be used more often.  They could've done the same thing, MONTHS earlier, and with a coat hanger!

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RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life - 5/10/2007 12:55:05 AM   
imtempting


Posts: 1280
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline 		The mother should of breast fed and also gave it proper baby food.

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RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life - 5/10/2007 1:32:05 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Unless these parents were total idiots, I think it might be best to hold back on the condemnation for the moment.

We have just come through a period here in the UK of mothers, having been jailed for killing their babies, being released on the discrediting of a certain expert witness paediatrician who testified at their trials. The convictions were secured solely on his expert testimony, which was in error as things turned out. The babies concerned died of cot death, tragic but not murder.

We also in the last month or so had an adoptive couple released from jail. They were sentenced for the murder of the three year old they wanted to adopt, by way of salt poisoning, (administered as a punishment to the child apparently though it seems an odd means of punishment). It turned out the child had a problem with salt and that it had built up in his system until it killed him - no one ever fed him spoonfuls of it. Again, it was more expert testimony in error that condemned this couple.

I wonder whether the same sort of expert testimony was a deciding factor in this particular conviction, and whether again we might find one day that two innocent people have had their lives taken from devastation to total ruin by a justice system eager to see evil whatever the circumstances?

E

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RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life - 5/10/2007 2:22:41 AM   
Zensee


Posts: 1564
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline 		It's not like then children of carnivores haven't died from malnutrition before. The vegan = evil slant is just alarmist crap and has no relevance.

That and what LadyE said.

Z.

PS: And CuriousLord enough with the abortion soapbox. Start your own thread if you are so hot to trot.


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RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life - 5/10/2007 2:49:02 AM   
BossyShoeBitch


Posts: 3931
Joined: 1/13/2007
From: South Florida
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quote:

ORIGINAL: imtempting

The mother should of breast fed and also gave it proper baby food.

proper baby food for a newborn is breastmilk or formula, period.

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RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life - 5/10/2007 2:51:29 AM   
BossyShoeBitch


Posts: 3931
Joined: 1/13/2007
From: South Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Hopefully this might finally cause the people of this nation to wake up and begin incarcerating all of the vegans before they can do more damage to all of humanity....Writing my Congressman as soon as I am done here.

i'm just going to go with the assumption that you are kidding.

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RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life - 5/10/2007 2:55:26 AM   
BossyShoeBitch


Posts: 3931
Joined: 1/13/2007
From: South Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Unless these parents were total idiots, I think it might be best to hold back on the condemnation for the moment.

We have just come through a period here in the UK of mothers, having been jailed for killing their babies, being released on the discrediting of a certain expert witness paediatrician who testified at their trials. The convictions were secured solely on his expert testimony, which was in error as things turned out. The babies concerned died of cot death, tragic but not murder.

We also in the last month or so had an adoptive couple released from jail. They were sentenced for the murder of the three year old they wanted to adopt, by way of salt poisoning, (administered as a punishment to the child apparently though it seems an odd means of punishment). It turned out the child had a problem with salt and that it had built up in his system until it killed him - no one ever fed him spoonfuls of it. Again, it was more expert testimony in error that condemned this couple.

I wonder whether the same sort of expert testimony was a deciding factor in this particular conviction, and whether again we might find one day that two innocent people have had their lives taken from devastation to total ruin by a justice system eager to see evil whatever the circumstances?

E

whether by not taking the child to the dr. or by not feeding him, they took their lives to total ruin themselves.

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RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life - 5/10/2007 3:15:51 AM   
curiousexplorer


Posts: 77
Joined: 2/1/2007
Status: offline 		Vegan/vegetarian lifestyles are choices, they are not how our species functions biologically. Too many people choosing to live this way know next to nothing about their biological requirements, and their health suffers. Pale, pasty and weak is more than a stereotype. Most who fail to address the defeciences of such a diet only give themselves poor health, but a child (or children) dying from malnourishment is the worst case scenario, but not a surprise at all.
Kids welfare is not the place for parents to try any belief that pops into their head. Take care of their needs, leave the choices for when they are old enough to make them for themselves.

"but working in a pediatricians office for over 8yrs and being exposed to alot of different medical conditions in newborns and children......it just makes me wonder if something else could have been the issue"

If it was something else their lawyer and all medical personal involved in the case did a very poor job. They were screwballs who inflicted their poorly thought out choice on their kid and killed it. Just another form of child abuser.

"Humans are naturally made to consume human's milk (if that wasn't obvious)"

Ah, but what is just as obvious is the fact humans are naturally made to consume animals. What we are naturally made for has nothing to do with the dietary decisions of these people. As humans are animals, it would not surprise me at all if there were vegans who thought it was a no go. There are people out there who think you can live off just air, anything is possible. Never underestimate people.

"Veganism is a very healthy, earth-friendly way of living."

Earth friendly? How? We are biologically omnivores. Earth friendly would mean eating animal products. Veganism is people friendly, as it is a choice people make to make themselves feel good. It has nothing to do with animal welfare, and all to do with egocentricity.

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RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life - 5/10/2007 3:23:27 AM   
puella


Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		Stupid people who breed without knowing how to care for their offspring end up (giving them the benefit of the doubt) inadvertantly killing children every day in this country, and around the world... and always have.  This case is no different.  The media is just using the Vegan angle for a shocking-clever-exciting new thrill a moment twist on an old story.

Much worse in my mind is the person who consciously and systematically goes out and preys upon the innocent.  In my opinion, a much more disgustingly egregious violation of humanity was just prosecuted recently up here... a 60 year old man and his 30ish son were just put in prison... the father molested an 11 year old boy and his son molested the 13 year old daughter while the mother (the son's girlfriend) was in the hospital dying of cancer.

As with most things, I think motiation is a huge factor in determining how much vitriol needs to be spewed.

< Message edited by puella -- 5/10/2007 3:29:28 AM >

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RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life - 5/10/2007 4:58:37 AM   
Sinimint


Posts: 131
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline 		So curiousexplore, the millions of buddists over 1,000's of years that are vegetarians are pasty and weak?

This child died from malnutrition, from bad parenting, from idiotic parents.  Nothing whatsoever to do with being vegetarian or vegan!!!!!!!!

I haven't eaten any meat for 22 years now - I am slim, healthy, not pasty, not weak, my iron level is higher than most male meat eaters, my cholesterol is low blah blah blah.  Dont knock people for being different please, it's just rude.  Being vegetarian is just a personal preference.  Why is it that vegetarians get ridiculed all the time?  I never ever force my vegetarian views down peoples throats, I dont give a damn what others eat, it's my own preference and it works for me.  This is probably the first time I've fired up  LOL.

Why do some meat eaters (and mostly male) get so pissed off and on their high horse about someone that doesnt eat meat?  Big bloody deal - eat your steak - I really dont care - but you seem to have an issue with me not eating it!

Ok I've ranted, I feel better now   Thanks........... :)

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RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life - 5/10/2007 5:01:40 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

Unless these parents were total idiots


They starved their baby to death and he weighted 3.5 pounds when he died.
I think idiots is a good descriptor for the parents.


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RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life - 5/10/2007 5:06:09 AM   
Aileen68


Posts: 6091
Joined: 8/2/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch

quote:

ORIGINAL: imtempting

The mother should of breast fed and also gave it proper baby food.

proper baby food for a newborn is breastmilk or formula, period.


Umm...yeah.  My two survived quite nicely on just breastmilk for the first five months of their lives.  Babies are designed to grow on just breastmilk.  That's why women have breasts.

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RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life - 5/10/2007 5:13:24 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen68

quote:

ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch

quote:

ORIGINAL: imtempting

The mother should of breast fed and also gave it proper baby food.

proper baby food for a newborn is breastmilk or formula, period.


Umm...yeah.  My two survived quite nicely on just breastmilk for the first five months of their lives.  Babies are designed to grow on just breastmilk.  That's why women have breasts.


There are other reasons, that is not THE reason, it is only A reason they have them pendulous globes, some of the other reasons should be intuitively obvious at this juncture.


BoobMeister

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RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life - 5/10/2007 5:35:30 AM   
Aileen68


Posts: 6091
Joined: 8/2/2005
Status: offline 		Well Boobmeister, it is the main reason.
All the rest are just extra curricular activities.

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RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life - 5/10/2007 5:44:45 AM   
Dauric


Posts: 254
Joined: 7/13/2006
Status: offline 		mmmm... boobies....

Ahem...

As far as veganism goes, it's a personal choice, and if it works for you, more power to you. The idiots that I can't stand are the ones that have this "Disneyfied" view of the earth where everything is all nice and smily-faces, and the 'good guys' are fluffy bunny rabbits (that ejaculate raibows and flower petals when they masterbate...*), and the 'big bad wolf/cyote/other predator' is the only one around, and it falls in to a bottomless chazm in a rainstorm at the end of the movie. It's all bullshit. They need to spend some time in rural areas where they can see nature at work, like a pack of cyote's digging out a family of rabbits for lunch, or taking down an elk.

*(www.somethingpositive.net I forget the actual strip, but it's in the archives.)

More to the point, without those predators the world would be a less healthy place. Those 'fluffy bunnies' (and in colorado especially "Prarie Dogs" eg: "Flatland Rats") may be cute, but they spread disease and breed like... well like rodents. Prarie-dog colonies are massive and almost entirely devoid of vegitation with the exception of noxious weeds that the rats don't eat.

I could go on for a long time pointing out the flaws in the "fluffy-bunny" view of the world, and really get my ire up, but I gotta go to work. I'll admit that "Factory Farms" are quite possibly the worst way to generate animal products, but it's the legacy we have of our culture (and there's another raging rant I can get in to itself.).

Anyway, as I said, if any of the 16 varieties of vegitarianism work for you (one of my friends is a professional chef, that's how I know) more power to you. Don't try to tell me how I'm being unethical, or cast me as some disney-villan, because I happen to like my seasoned-chicken salad-wrap.

$0.02,

Dauric.

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