RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life

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caitlyn -> RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life (5/10/2007 5:49:33 AM)
We have seen your pictures Aileen ... a kid could survive through graduate school on those. On topic ... first they are after Vegans, next they will be after those of us that exist on a diet of salad and white chocolate mocha fraps from Starbucks. Bastards!!!

Bearlee -> RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life (5/10/2007 5:53:48 AM)
I don't think this has anything to do with being vegitarian or how bright the parents were. Did you all miss the article's comment: "...prosecutors said the couple intentionally neglected their child and refused to take him to the doctor even as the baby’s body wasted away." I don't think it's possible to arrive at 30 years old and not see a baby is stressing when, at six weeks old, it only weighs 3.5 pounds. I think it is more likely that what the prosecutor alleges is on the money...they just didn't want it. To continue to call these people idiots shames those who are not so bright...but raise children (even bright children) without issue. Love goes a long way, bear

merrysbrat -> RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life (5/10/2007 6:01:37 AM)
Veganism is people friendly, as it is a choice people make to make themselves feel good. It has nothing to do with animal welfare, and all to do with egocentricity. Wow, I've got to point out something right now, it might bore people to tears, but I have to. River/Summer/Joaquin Phoenix's whole family converted to veganism when Joaquin was only four years old, and saw fishermen on a boat killing fish by hitting their heads on the side of the boat. This prompted the entire family to quit eating meat, dairy products, eggs, etc. Now, I would like someone to look me in the eyes, with a straight face, and tell me a four year old stopped eating meat because of egocentricity. Hah!

merrysbrat -> RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life (5/10/2007 6:05:30 AM)
And yes, that's coming from a vegan. And I happen to have converted to veganism for health reasons, not ego. (Trying to trim some weight off)

Dauric -> RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life (5/10/2007 6:08:33 AM)
You said it, the -whole family- made that decision, so the four year old gets to go along for the ride regardless. On top of that a four year old will accept and adopt the deciosions of thair parents, it's what we as a social creature are hard-wired for. That doesn't change until the much-famed teen years. And so they were hitting fish in the head to kill them quickly. Try listening to a rabbit scream because it's guts are being pulled out while it's still breathing. As far as predators go, humans are one of the most humane. (Yeah, some predators snap necks killing the prey instantly, in theory, but I've seen cats toy with half-decapitated mice.)

merrysbrat -> RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life (5/10/2007 6:10:06 AM)
Um, it was Joaquin's idea, the rest of the family just agreed with it.

merrysbrat -> RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life (5/10/2007 6:15:21 AM)
And as far as predators go, you wouldn't be saying we were the most humane if you saw some of the slaughterhouses in america, some fucked up shit happens there. I mean yes, some human predators like straight up hunters try and kill their prey with one shot, and if they don't put them out of their misery pretty fast, but the same isn't true for companies that produce a lot of meat.

earthycouple -> RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life (5/10/2007 6:16:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy Hopefully this might finally cause the people of this nation to wake up and begin incarcerating all of the vegans before they can do more damage to all of humanity....Writing my Congressman as soon as I am done here. you are kidding, right? This whole story isn't about vegans it's about stupid parents. If the people had been carnivorous that wouldn't have been mentioned because it's not interesting. We are missing the big picture....who cares what they ate. They probably killed the kid on purpose and used their veganism as an attempt at not getting thrown in prison.

Dauric -> RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life (5/10/2007 6:20:03 AM)
Source please.

merrysbrat -> RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life (5/10/2007 6:22:16 AM)
Go to wikipedia, look up River Phoenix.

curiousexplorer -> RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life (5/10/2007 6:28:57 AM)
Siniment, Omnivores. We are no more carnivores than we are herbivores. Also I don't care what you eat, as I said right from the start V/V is a choice. Good luck to you and well done for being healthy about it. However your experience does not eliminate my experiences which includes many young dumb uni students jumping on the V/V bandwagon with no idea and becoming the pasty, weak, sickly people I was referring to. I have also known a few women who were vegetarian by default who suffered health problems because of it. Note, these are ill informed people, as are the ones in the opening post. Now far from getting pissed off, on my high horse or knocking your choice, I was simply stating the biological fact that V/V is a choice, and that as with many lifestyle choices it should be left to informed adults. Want to talk religion and politics? I don't advocate indoctrinating kids in those areas either, I'm big on information and choice.

Dauric -> RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life (5/10/2007 6:31:55 AM)
Did that, it alternately states 4 and 3 years old depending on which entry you're looking at. (the one on Joachin says 3. and yeah I spelled it wrong). Always be careful about what you get on Wiki. It's a good resource, but not one to be used indiscriminately. Even if you take that as the case, It's a case of Disney ethics. Someone who didn't realize how food gets to the table is suddenly horrified at the reality. It's nothing new, it's been going on since the Industrial Revolution when machines allowed humans to become removed from their food supply. I'd be extremely suprised if the parents weren't predisposed to making that decision in the first place, and that Joachin just tipped the dominoes. If anything it;s a worse case of ego since It wasn't the four-year olds ego that made the decision, but a mass-marketed media image impressed on the little tyke in the first place.

Dauric -> RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life (5/10/2007 6:33:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: curiousexplorer Siniment, Omnivores. We are no more carnivores than we are herbivores. Also I don't care what you eat, as I said right from the start V/V is a choice. Good luck to you and well done for being healthy about it. However your experience does not eliminate my experiences which includes many young dumb uni students jumping on the V/V bandwagon with no idea and becoming the pasty, weak, sickly people I was referring to. I have also known a few women who were vegetarian by default who suffered health problems because of it. Note, these are ill informed people, as are the ones in the opening post. Now far from getting pissed off, on my high horse or knocking your choice, I was simply stating the biological fact that V/V is a choice, and that as with many lifestyle choices it should be left to informed adults. Want to talk religion and politics? I don't advocate indoctrinating kids in those areas either, I'm big on information and choice. Agreed. $0.02.

merrysbrat -> RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life (5/10/2007 6:34:02 AM)
I personally think raising kids as vegans or vegetarians is fine, although I have seen kids raised that way, that turned out pale and sickly, from lack of proper nutrients. If you're gonna go vegan, especially when you're figuring out a diet for someone else, especially a child you have to make sure it's a balanced diet. No human can live off lettuce and carrots and soy milk. It;'s the idiots who try that who end up weak and pale and sickly. But then again, I've seen parents who feed their children tons of meat and potatoes and more MEAT, and they can turn out to have much different, but just as serious health problems.

merrysbrat -> RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life (5/10/2007 6:36:23 AM)
Um, you think the media made that decision for him? What would any four year old think when seeing animals killed rithlessly for food.

merrysbrat -> RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life (5/10/2007 6:37:53 AM)
Ruthlessly. Wow, I need sleep.

curiousexplorer -> RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life (5/10/2007 6:55:53 AM)
marrysbrat, "Veganism is people friendly, as it is a choice people make to make themselves feel good" "converted to veganism when Joaquin was only four years old, and saw fishermen on a boat killing fish by hitting their heads on the side of the boat." Still need help? More people need to realise meat comes from animals and not wrapped on shelves in the fridge at the shops. Good luck on the diet. Is it working? I always found increasing the workload made diet irrelevant, but that's just me. Everyone has to find what works for them. "Um, it was Joaquin's idea, the rest of the family just agreed with it. " So a family based it's nutrition on a four year olds introduction to nature, and your using them as a model? I would have thought it was up to the parents to help the kid understand the experience in a healthy way. And while we are on the poor animal bit, what about the plants? Don't plants count? If the V/V's really cared they would be breatharians, and that would be the end of it. merrysbrat, how much time have you spent watching any kind of predatory animal? The fact we have things like endangered species lists immediately puts us above any predator on the care scale. And yes, we generally kill our prey. We don't bring it to the table and begin eating on it live. We don't don't chase after it with sticks beating it until it's dead then devouoring it, like those cute chimps. Well, a lot don't. "What would any four year old think when seeing animals killed rithlessly for food." Whatever his parents let him think. When I first went hunting for rabbits I wondered what they would taste like. I already knew exactly where beef, lamb, chicken and pork came from. It caused no problems because I knew how nature worked. That is the harmony of nature V/V's ckoice to avoid.

defiantbadgirl -> RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life (5/10/2007 7:39:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level ATLANTA - A vegan couple were sentenced Wednesday to life in prison for the death of their malnourished 6-week-old baby boy, who was fed a diet largely consisting of soy milk and apple juice. Superior Court Judge L.A. McConnell imposed the mandatory sentences on Jade Sanders, 27, and Lamont Thomas, 31. Their son, Crown Shakur, weighed just 3 1/2 pounds when he died of starvation on April 25, 2004. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18574603 The baby was 6 weeks old, not 6 months old. Doctors recommend not starting solid foods until the 4th month. Humans have existed for centuries. Formula has not. My father drank goats milk when he was a baby because nothing else would stay down......not breast milk or formula and he obviously turned out fine or I wouldn't be here. I think the couple either wasn't feeding the baby often enough or the baby had a medical condition that kept him from gaining weight. The baby should have been taken to a doctor.

popeye1250 -> RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life (5/10/2007 8:15:27 AM)
"I'm not a vegetarian because I like animals, I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants."

KatyLied -> RE: Vegan couple sentenced to life (5/10/2007 8:21:10 AM)
This link has a pic of the baby http://www.click2houston.com/news/13286030/detail.html According to this article: The kitchen cupboards in the parents' apartment were empty at the time. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6642543.stm According to this article: Defence lawyer Brandon Lewis is quoted by the Atlanta Journal-Constitution newspaper as saying the couple did not take their child to a doctor because they feared hospitals were full of germs.

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