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RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/14/2007 7:30:16 AM   
Bella1965


Posts: 285
Joined: 12/12/2006
From: NYC
Status: offline 		G'morning all:


(Fast Reply - as I don't have time or sufferance to read all 9 pages.)

Not another prodomination thread. Mon dieu. Despite some individuals' interpretations, let's establish some fundamental definitions;

A) Prostitution -  the act or practice of engaging in promiscuous sexual relations especially for money.
B) ProDominant - is a person who performs the dominant role in BDSM activities in exchange for money. 
C) Intercourse - involving penetration of the vagina by the penis or intercourse (as anal or oral intercourse) that does not involve penetration of the vagina by the penis.
D) Masturbation - erotic stimulation especially of one's own genital organs commonly resulting in orgasm and achieved by manual or other bodily contact exclusive of sexual intercourse, by instrumental manipulation, occasionally by sexual fantasies, or by various combinations of these agencies.
E) Bondage - servitude or subjugation to a controlling person or force.
F) Discipline - control gained by enforcing obedience or order.
G) Sadism- delight in cruelty or excessive cruelty.
H) Masochism - pleasure in being abused or dominated : a taste for suffering.
I) Domination - exercise of preponderant, governing, or controlling influence.
J) Submission - the condition of being submissive, humble, or compliant or an act of submitting to the authority or control of another.


First off, BDSM is ~not~ about sex. It's about power. Giving, taking, using, but it's not about sex. (In this case, intercourse.) Sexual energy may be engaged and sexual stimulation is often a pleasant side effect but it's not the basis for the practice.

Secondly, prodomination does NOT involve sex. It's what sets them apart from the prostitutes. Just because a few folks cross the line does not negate the difference.

Thirdly, legal issues regarding BDSM. It's NOT the erotic aspects which will get you thrown in jail. It's the assault charges. Doesn't matter if you've got consent to beat the snots out of your willing partner. The law takes a dim view of hitting another by hand or instrument. The laws vary from state to state and country to country, but the basics remain.

If there's a fourth or more point  to make? Excuse me for answering a provocative thread after having just risen. The grey matter is still trying to fire on all pistons.


Stay safe, play nice, & share your toys w/ others...





Bella

_____________________________

Life shouldn't be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly shouting..."Wow! What a ride!

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)
Profile   Post #: 181
RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/14/2007 7:55:51 AM   
MstrssPassion


Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HellsMichelle
Also I know someplace I can go where I can put the information


I know of a list like this myself.... wondering if we are thinking of the same list

_____________________________

MstrssPassion


(in reply to HellsMichelle)
Profile   Post #: 182
RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/14/2007 9:49:41 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

Despite some individuals' interpretations, let's establish some fundamental definitions;...

...It's the assault charges. Doesn't matter if you've got consent to beat the snots out of your willing partner. The law takes a dim view of hitting another by hand or instrument.


That is your individual interpretation... it is not in fact the law.
Consent is a very specific element of the crimes of assault and battery.

Why aren't people jailed on assault charges for lightly hitting people with their consent outside of BDSM activities?
Those performing CPR, martial artists, rugby players, performers, et al. are not arrested precisely because they do have the consent (or presumed consent) of the other party.

In some cases BDSM has been treated differently than the letter of the law dictates... so look at what makes BDSM different... it isn't the lack of consent, because, as we all know, BDSM includes consent just like the above activities.

That leaves morality as the impetus for judical involvement.


(in reply to MstrssPassion)
Profile   Post #: 183
RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/14/2007 9:55:23 AM   
PrincessDonna


Posts: 189
Joined: 7/7/2006
Status: offline 		Some very interesting points to ponder though as I have been in adult entertainment and had to deal with the legal aspects!the bottom line in any state seems to be that if you do not have a bussiness license you are not allowed to accept money for ANY service given!

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 184
RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/14/2007 10:00:19 AM   
BoiJen


Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PrincessDonna

Some very interesting points to ponder though as I have been in adult entertainment and had to deal with the legal aspects!the bottom line in any state seems to be that if you do not have a bussiness license you are not allowed to accept money for ANY service given!


That's an interesting point...but when Pro-Dommes DO have business licenses then it's not an issue. DBA's are wonderufl things.

(in reply to PrincessDonna)
Profile   Post #: 185
RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/14/2007 10:18:06 AM   
Eldritchdancer


Posts: 101
Joined: 12/26/2006
Status: offline 		BioJen,

You may want to recheck the laws in Michigan. I'm betting the places that put up crosses have a Performance License. It's a loophole that allows 'demonstrations' of varied products available for sale. I live in Michigan and they have a 'you may not consent to a felony' law on the books. The STATE can prosecute the 'offender', even if everything was entirely consentual.


Master Darkmoon

(in reply to BoiJen)
Profile   Post #: 186
RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/14/2007 10:26:01 AM   
BoiJen


Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Eldritchdancer

BioJen,

You may want to recheck the laws in Michigan. I'm betting the places that put up crosses have a Performance License. It's a loophole that allows 'demonstrations' of varied products available for sale. I live in Michigan and they have a 'you may not consent to a felony' law on the books. The STATE can prosecute the 'offender', even if everything was entirely consentual.


Master Darkmoon


I live in Detroit dude. So yeah I know about the performance laws. Then again...Diamond Jim's has a fetish party every month that's well known and I know the organizer...and she doesn't ahev a performance license. Neither does the organizers of Wicked. It's not a felony to comitt acts of BDSM in Mi...but it's a felony to comitt lewd acts. Which is all left up to interpretation of your peers since they're gong to be the ones on a jury. Consent is not a defense in Mi...ture...but then again...that takes every cop having to stop parents from spanking their children too. Again the NCSF is a great resource.

(in reply to Eldritchdancer)
Profile   Post #: 187
RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/14/2007 10:42:41 AM   
LdyCougar


Posts: 11
Status: offline 		Damn! Just when I was thinking that turning pro may be an option

Constantly waiting around for no shows, jerks and the like: would have to charge a lot to make up for those fools.

Ladies: You are providing a service, as you well know. I have no reason to state this, as it is beyond obvious.

To any who think all fem subs (slaves best) don't pay tribute - it may not be cash. He may require particular and extremely costly clothing to be purchased and worn , travel expenses to paid by her, expensive dinners shopped for, paid, then cooked and served.... all before the 'fun' begins.  Not a tribute? Say...?

Who cares anyway?

(in reply to BoiJen)
Profile   Post #: 188
RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/14/2007 10:49:21 AM   
BoiJen


Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LdyCougar

Damn! Just when I was thinking that turning pro may be an option

Constantly waiting around for no shows, jerks and the like: would have to charge a lot to make up for those fools.

Ladies: You are providing a service, as you well know. I have no reason to state this, as it is beyond obvious.

To any who think all fem subs (slaves best) don't pay tribute - it may not be cash. He may require particular and extremely costly clothing to be purchased and worn , travel expenses to paid by her, expensive dinners shopped for, paid, then cooked and served.... all before the 'fun' begins.  Not a tribute? Say...?

Who cares anyway?


Those no shows and the assholes are why Pro-Dommes have attitudes and charge as mucha s they do. Because everytime there's a no show that's time she's already set aside to make some money and to do that service. The attitudes that Pro-Dommes are whores are exactly why they have issues with guys who seem to think they can use a Pro-Domme as a whore. It just doesn't work that way. It's why things aren't so quid pro quo as one might think. Those same Pro-Dommes who have the no show guys also are known for tunring down guys who think they're the one's in charge because they're paying something. They're not. Gratitude is shown for the effort it takes to earn the cash spent. But there's no way any Pro-Domme I know is gonna bend over backwards for a client who thinks less of them because they charge.

(in reply to LdyCougar)
Profile   Post #: 189
RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/14/2007 10:52:38 AM   
Copulo


Posts: 268
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LdyCougar

Damn! Just when I was thinking that turning pro may be an option

Constantly waiting around for no shows, jerks and the like: would have to charge a lot to make up for those fools.


The no shows are a pain in the arse but the more regulars you build up the less likely it is that you have to put up with ‘no shows’. Like any business, it takes time to build it.

Ladies: You are providing a service, as you well know. I have no reason to state this, as it is beyond obvious.

To any who think all fem subs (slaves best) don't pay tribute - it may not be cash. He may require particular and extremely costly clothing to be purchased and worn , travel expenses to paid by her, expensive dinners shopped for, paid, then cooked and served.... all before the 'fun' begins.  Not a tribute? Say...?

Then it would be interesting to hear from a fem sub on these boards that has bought an expensive piece of clothing, paid for travel expenses or an elaborate meal on his orders because in the many years I have been into this I have yet to come across a fem sub that has done this.


Who cares anyway?


Obviously people do care or it would not of got onto its 10th page !

(in reply to LdyCougar)
Profile   Post #: 190
RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/14/2007 11:20:26 AM   
brandx29


Posts: 15
Joined: 1/8/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HellsMichelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: TexasMaam

lolololol

Sorry ICGsteve, I am not a pro.

However, I already paid My dues in apprenticeship for 12 years to one of the world's most accomplished Dominas.

Actually, licensing isn't a bad Idea and you are hardly the first to suggest it.

I'll be first in line.

TM



If she isn't shoving past me! I have no problem with the idea of licensing. I do not like the idea of having to pay a stupid fee, but I would gladly take any tests they could come up with.

but with the way the country is right now, you would have a hard time getting it passed. Hell, here in Houston the city counsel just closed 100 adult oriented businesses!! We have made money for decades because of our topless bars and now they are getting rid of them in a weak attempt to draw the superbowl back and bring in the olympics!

Too bad its probably going to cost us the majority of the conventions that keep the city alive the rest of the year, huh?

M


there is your problem... TEXAS.. i hate texas

(in reply to HellsMichelle)
Profile   Post #: 191
RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/14/2007 11:34:01 AM   
BoiJen


Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline 		I wouldn't say too much about Texas...they're one of the few states that allows consent to be a defense. Regarding BDSM it's one of the most open minded states out there.

(in reply to brandx29)
Profile   Post #: 192
RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/14/2007 11:53:01 AM   
pauliestl


Posts: 18
Joined: 5/2/2007
Status: offline 		I find it intersting that almost all of the posters here so narrowly define what makes a person a whore to be the act of penetration.  But is there anyone here that has not at some point made the off handed comment that someone was whoring themselves and not refering to sex?  Your favorite song comes on the tv as a soundtrack to get you to be a consumer and you roll your eyes and think to yourself that you can't believe they whored themselves to brand x...
In my philosophy anyone who does something that goes against their usual morals and standards strictly for financial gain is a whore.  I don't care if its selling out your music to brand x, taking a man into your bed or strapping a person to a cross.  If you wouldn't do the same thing for free then you are a whore, because you sold out your values.   But if your morals and values allow you to perform the same act for free as well as for some consideration then you are a business person providing a service...

(in reply to BoiJen)
Profile   Post #: 193
RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/14/2007 11:55:55 AM   
Eldritchdancer


Posts: 101
Joined: 12/26/2006
Status: offline 		To the forum posters and readers,

     The people I was talking with, and helping to get to know this issue, have read thru the responses. They asked me to communicate a HUGE Thank You to those who responded with intelligent points, links and thoughtful advice. One of them said, "Wow! Remind me not to ask about a hot-button issue again!" in a jovial, joking tone.

     Seriously, folks. While the question was not for me, it has still been informative. The persons I was helping are now more aware of how opinion and perspective can differ on something that may seem simple, on the surface. So, for those who responded, "THANK YOU" from both myself and those I was able to help because of you.

Master Darkmoon

(in reply to BoiJen)
Profile   Post #: 194
RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/14/2007 11:57:20 AM   
LdyCougar


Posts: 11
Status: offline 		Thank you, BoiJen. Your description is exactly as I gathered.
My compilments to you in many ways, if I may say.

Copulo: yeah, I know. We care or why would there be this fuss!
Thanks and best to you.

LdyC

(in reply to BoiJen)
Profile   Post #: 195
RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/14/2007 12:00:53 PM   
Copulo


Posts: 268
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pauliestl

I find it intersting that almost all of the posters here so narrowly define what makes a person a whore to be the act of penetration.  But is there anyone here that has not at some point made the off handed comment that someone was whoring themselves and not refering to sex?  Your favorite song comes on the tv as a soundtrack to get you to be a consumer and you roll your eyes and think to yourself that you can't believe they whored themselves to brand x...
In my philosophy anyone who does something that goes against their usual morals and standards strictly for financial gain is a whore.  I don't care if its selling out your music to brand x, taking a man into your bed or strapping a person to a cross.  If you wouldn't do the same thing for free then you are a whore, because you sold out your values.   But if your morals and values allow you to perform the same act for free as well as for some consideration then you are a business person providing a service...



Yeah that means I was a business person.!!!
BTW are you a power lifter?

Maria

(in reply to pauliestl)
Profile   Post #: 196
RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/14/2007 12:01:03 PM   
brandx29


Posts: 15
Joined: 1/8/2007
Status: offline 		maybe so, i just have had such a bad time and bad experiances with texas is all =)

(in reply to BoiJen)
Profile   Post #: 197
RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/14/2007 12:01:58 PM   
BoiJen


Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LdyCougar

Thank you, BoiJen. Your description is exactly as I gathered.
My compilments to you in many ways, if I may say.

Copulo: yeah, I know. We care or why would there be this fuss!
Thanks and best to you.

LdyC


Not a problem and Thank you!

(in reply to LdyCougar)
Profile   Post #: 198
RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/14/2007 7:55:45 PM   
Bella1965


Posts: 285
Joined: 12/12/2006
From: NYC
Status: offline 		G'evening all:


Alumbrado, I believe you missed a key element of my post, provided below;
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bella1965
The laws vary from state to state and country to country, but the basics remain.

In support of that;
quote:

ORIGINAL: Eldritchdancer
I live in Michigan and they have a 'you may not consent to a felony' law on the books. The STATE can prosecute the 'offender', even if everything was entirely consensual.


Now maybe Memphis, TN. laws are different, but I highly doubt it. The examples you have offered are not analogous to BDSM or to the topic at hand. (Prostitution VS. Prodomination). Let's remember; I was stating definitions, not legal merits. Although, try beating your submissive in public or get beat by your dominant and see if you or the dominant doesn't land in jail double quick. *chuckles*


Stay safe, play nice, & share your toys w/ others...





Bella

_____________________________

Life shouldn't be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly shouting..."Wow! What a ride!

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 199
RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/15/2007 5:12:44 AM   
HellsMichelle


Posts: 63
Joined: 2/24/2006
From: HOUSTON TEXAS
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: brandx29

there is your problem... TEXAS.. i hate texas



Well, now we know what YOUR problem is.....thanks for the heads up, lol, Lv M

_____________________________

*Know your PLACE. Shut your FACE.*
Want to read my full blog?
http://www.myspace.com/michellefromhell
Want to talk to me?
http://www.niteflirt.com/BelleofHellMichelle
Want me to fukkkkoff?
TOO BAD!!

(in reply to brandx29)
Profile   Post #: 200
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