RE: Constructive Ideas Needed

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velvetears -> RE: Constructive Ideas Needed (5/15/2007 7:00:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: darkinshadows I thought we were having a discussion. Obviously I was misinformed and you were only here for an argument. I apologise for assuming you were asking a genuine question in the O.P. and am now disappointed I fed your argument and your ability to point your chosen 'clique' out. Your post - and point - is duely noted. Have a wonderful day. Peace and as always the Rapture. How very transparent - you too have a great day [:D]

darkinshadows -> RE: Constructive Ideas Needed (5/15/2007 7:03:26 AM)
Not transparent - merely a mirror. Peace and Rapture

velvetears -> RE: Constructive Ideas Needed (5/15/2007 7:05:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: darkinshadows Not transparent - merely a mirror. Peace and Rapture Then i suggest you look in it and see the truth

LaTigresse -> RE: Constructive Ideas Needed (5/15/2007 7:08:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: darkinshadows I thought we were having a discussion. Obviously I was misinformed and you were only here for an argument. I apologise for assuming you were asking a genuine question in the O.P. and am now disappointed I fed your argument and your ability to point your chosen 'clique' out. Your post - and point - is duely noted. Have a wonderful day. Peace and as always the Rapture. I think for many people a discussion is only when others agree with them. An unreasonable argument is when others disagree regardless of how diplomatically the disagreement is presented. I tested that theory in this thread and it was proved correct as usual.

darkinshadows -> RE: Constructive Ideas Needed (5/15/2007 7:13:25 AM)
As I said - duely noted - but please - do have the last say[;)] Peace

velvetears -> RE: Constructive Ideas Needed (5/15/2007 7:13:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse quote: ORIGINAL: darkinshadows I thought we were having a discussion. Obviously I was misinformed and you were only here for an argument. I apologise for assuming you were asking a genuine question in the O.P. and am now disappointed I fed your argument and your ability to point your chosen 'clique' out. Your post - and point - is duely noted. Have a wonderful day. Peace and as always the Rapture. I think for many people a discussion is only when others agree with them. An unreasonable argument is when others disagree regardless of how diplomatically the disagreement is presented. I tested that theory in this thread and it was proved correct as usual. And you have been the most diplomatic of all in presenting your case LaT... hardly... but i harbor no ill will, you are just being who you are.

LaTigresse -> RE: Constructive Ideas Needed (5/15/2007 7:16:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkDreams123 In reference to this post: http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=1011927 Greetings LaTigresse, In trying to understand the essence of your post, it appears to me that you might be saying one of two things: a) you think that velvetears's argument is wrong or b) you think that velvetears shouldn't tell other people what to do. If a), then I have nothing to say to you. If b), then I would say that you are guilty of the same. "Just because you don't find someone else's behaviour appealing or right for YOU does not mean the rest of the world must conform..." I trust you understand that this applies equally well to you. Perhaps your "sharp stick" has points at both ends.[:D] -DarkDreams It is obvious then that you are as small minded as others have shown to be. The fact is that I control how the words on my computer screen affect me. It is virtually impossible for anyone on this site to find a stick that will even begin to prick me. I don't give them the power. I enjoy a good debate, absolutely. Wether or not I agree with Velvet is of no consequence, wether or not I think she is showing acceptable behaviour in telling others what to do is also of no importance at all. I also find humour in the fact that you seem to have taken my words as a personal attack on Velvet and felt the need to come to her rescue and make a pathetic attempt to chide me and defend her. Rather juvenile but then, that also is of no consequence. I do not know Velvet, I have zero idea of the whole person she is. This is one small insignificant subject that I found interesting and had a different point of view than the one presented. I enjoy the back and forth of a good debate. Keep it up! I always enjoy a humorous diversion in my work day.

velvetears -> RE: Constructive Ideas Needed (5/15/2007 7:20:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse quote: ORIGINAL: DarkDreams123 In reference to this post: http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=1011927 Greetings LaTigresse, In trying to understand the essence of your post, it appears to me that you might be saying one of two things: a) you think that velvetears's argument is wrong or b) you think that velvetears shouldn't tell other people what to do. If a), then I have nothing to say to you. If b), then I would say that you are guilty of the same. "Just because you don't find someone else's behaviour appealing or right for YOU does not mean the rest of the world must conform..." I trust you understand that this applies equally well to you. Perhaps your "sharp stick" has points at both ends.[:D] -DarkDreams It is obvious then that you are as small minded as others have shown to be. The fact is that I control how the words on my computer screen affect me. It is virtually impossible for anyone on this site to find a stick that will even begin to prick me. I don't give them the power. I enjoy a good debate, absolutely. Wether or not I agree with Velvet is of no consequence, wether or not I think she is showing acceptable behaviour in telling others what to do is also of no importance at all. I also find humour in the fact that you seem to have taken my words as a personal attack on Velvet and felt the need to come to her rescue and make a pathetic attempt to chide me and defend her. Rather juvenile but then, that also is of no consequence. I do not know Velvet, I have zero idea of the whole person she is. This is one small insignificant subject that I found interesting and had a different point of view than the one presented. I enjoy the back and forth of a good debate. Keep it up! I always enjoy a humorous diversion in my work day. Someone disagrees with you and points out a double standard and you get all defensive and attack them... how very unaffetced you are indeed ..... anyone who diesn't agree with you is small minded? What an ego [&:] [edited to add this thought] Please show me where - even once - i tried to tell others what to do

darkinshadows -> RE: Constructive Ideas Needed (5/15/2007 7:27:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse quote: ORIGINAL: darkinshadows I thought we were having a discussion. Obviously I was misinformed and you were only here for an argument. I apologise for assuming you were asking a genuine question in the O.P. and am now disappointed I fed your argument and your ability to point your chosen 'clique' out. Your post - and point - is duely noted. Have a wonderful day. Peace and as always the Rapture. I think for many people a discussion is only when others agree with them. An unreasonable argument is when others disagree regardless of how diplomatically the disagreement is presented. I tested that theory in this thread and it was proved correct as usual. I find that really sad though Tigress. Maybe it is just me. People can't agree all the time, but does that mean one must have an argument? Does it come down to the fact that people like to play god. Save the world - but only when it is in a certain way. Maybe even moreso in the BDSM world, because of the awareness of domination and all that it can involve. Having things just so - ones own way. Dominants have their world they wish to carve and shape - s-types submitting to someone who shapes their world into the way they already desire. Protection, salvation. And having people agree? But that makes everything them and us - doesn't it? Ok, rambling now...lol. Have a stunning day. Peace

LaTigresse -> RE: Constructive Ideas Needed (5/15/2007 7:36:04 AM)
Velvet, I do not understand why you insist on taking every word that is in disagreement with you and your supporters as a personal attack, then insist on turning around and going on the attack. You ASS-U-ME that I was attacking and you ASS-U-ME that I considered the person small minded for disagreeing with me when in reality it was not the disagreement that lead me to think that at all. If you took the initiative to read my posting history you would indeed find that I have had many disagreements in threads with intelligent posters and we managed to keep it very diplomatic and respectful. Quite often we never will agree. The truth is that some of the people that I disagree with most I have the most respect for and honestly like them, or at least what I know of them from here. I have often written them expressing my feelings to that regard. I believe it is possible and a very mature adult thing to do, to debate, discuss, even argue, without ever coming to a like mindset yet accepting the validity of the opposing point of view. I attempted in this thread to point that out. Agree to disagree. Over and over it was proved to me that regardless of how the point was presented there was an iron clad resolve that if everyone did not accept the initial point of view as being gospel then they were somehow behaving wrongly. I see over and over again on these threads, BDSM, Gorean, whatever the particular personal choice is, how because we have a unique "lifestyle" that is not "vanilla" we should be more accepting than those awful vanilla people and accept others kink regardless of our own. This thread, and this subject, is just another variation on that idea. You pointed out a behaviour that YOU find disagreeable, you found people that agree with you and some that don't. Regardless of how several people tried to point out the flaws THEY SAW in your point of view you still insisted they were somehow less of a person and that their behaviour was problematic and should somehow be changed. This had the potential for being a constructive debate. It is unfortunate that instead it was turned into something lesser that is no better than the initial topic berrated.

velvetears -> RE: Constructive Ideas Needed (5/15/2007 7:44:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Velvet, I do not understand why you insist on taking every word that is in disagreement with you and your supporters as a personal attack, then insist on turning around and going on the attack. You ASS-U-ME that I was attacking and you ASS-U-ME that I considered the person small minded for disagreeing with me when in reality it was not the disagreement that lead me to think that at all. If you took the initiative to read my posting history you would indeed find that I have had many disagreements in threads with intelligent posters and we managed to keep it very diplomatic and respectful. Quite often we never will agree. The truth is that some of the people that I disagree with most I have the most respect for and honestly like them, or at least what I know of them from here. I have often written them expressing my feelings to that regard. I believe it is possible and a very mature adult thing to do, to debate, discuss, even argue, without ever coming to a like mindset yet accepting the validity of the opposing point of view. I attempted in this thread to point that out. Agree to disagree. Over and over it was proved to me that regardless of how the point was presented there was an iron clad resolve that if everyone did not accept the initial point of view as being gospel then they were somehow behaving wrongly. I see over and over again on these threads, BDSM, Gorean, whatever the particular personal choice is, how because we have a unique "lifestyle" that is not "vanilla" we should be more accepting than those awful vanilla people and accept others kink regardless of our own. This thread, and this subject, is just another variation on that idea. You pointed out a behaviour that YOU find disagreeable, you found people that agree with you and some that don't. Regardless of how several people tried to point out the flaws THEY SAW in your point of view you still insisted they were somehow less of a person and that their behaviour was problematic and should somehow be changed. This had the potential for being a constructive debate. It is unfortunate that instead it was turned into something lesser that is no better than the initial topic berrated. What was the reason for calling them small minded - and is this not an attack on them to call them such a deragotary name? What do you than consider it... not a compliment? [&:] You even said you were going to be nasty - maybe what i consider attacks you veil in what you consider clever nastiness - sorry i see through that, but i do. And i still call you on showing me where even once i tried to tell anyone what to do - if you make a statement you should be able to back it up with evidence - put up or............

LaTigresse -> RE: Constructive Ideas Needed (5/15/2007 8:04:23 AM)
It is obvious there is no constructive conversation left to be had on this particular thread. It is just typing in circles. I am reminded of trying to have a discussion with my ex when they were drunk. All I can say is keep in mind mistoferins recent thread......."why don't you like me?"

velvetears -> RE: Constructive Ideas Needed (5/15/2007 8:04:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Velvet, I do not understand why you insist on taking every word that is in disagreement with you and your supporters as a personal attack, then insist on turning around and going on the attack. Disagreements are fine - it's when people do make personal attacks i have an issue.... as i recall: YOUR words..... wanting to poke sharp objects in a person to see if they whistle or just hiss when the hot air comes out holier than thou, schoolmarm uptight old bible school teacher that looks like she never got laid You don't come out of this debate lilly white my dear and you are trying to drag me into the mud with you....i care not to engage you no matter how you try to bait me - have a stupendous week [:)]

domiguy -> RE: Constructive Ideas Needed (5/15/2007 8:32:20 AM)
Cliques are cool. I think that they are a necessary function to ensure the continuation of our species...We are meat eaters....Well there are some vegans out there but since they all have a tendency to starve their children to death they won't be around much longer...Anywhooo, I digress, it is of extreme precedent that cliques thrive because who else is going to point out the flaws and follies of the masses if we don't have a group of cool, smart and beautiful people willing to take this bull by the reins? In this day and age where people turn to celebrities for guidance over teachers, political leaders,activists and parents it has never been more imperative to let those who are down trodden to visualize just how down trodden they truly are. We are pack animals similiar to wolves...One wolf may not possess the strength or confidence to tear down or mock a less fortunate...However put five or ten or more of us together and watch the fur and fat fly. Cliques are truly an American treasure and if you expect me to sit idly by while you tear down America you motherfuckers have another thing coming....not on my watch, sister! God Bless America!!!

kc692 -> RE: Constructive Ideas Needed (5/15/2007 8:41:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears quote: ORIGINAL: kc692 That's why you have a report button sweets,,,,look at the bottom of this post and you see it right next to the post number. With all the posts flying every day, and the VOLUNTEER mods looking at all of them, you sound like a prime candidate to hit that report button to let them know. At least then you know they saw it and made a decision on it. Thanks, i did indeed find that post and reported it. Good, anything to make the mods jobs easier, I would not want that job for anything myself.

LaTigresse -> RE: Constructive Ideas Needed (5/15/2007 9:11:31 AM)
But you see, I never claimed to be lily white, therein lies the difference. I don't mind getting a bit muddy, or covered in jello, it makes life alot more interesting. As far as engaging me.........I believe the reverse has already been proven. I just enjoy the banter, for the most part it has been enlightening and entertaining. Thank you for that.

happypervert -> RE: Constructive Ideas Needed (5/15/2007 10:58:10 AM)
quote: Disagreements are fine - it's when people do make personal attacks i have an issue. Unless, of course, it is you making the personal attacks -- then it is ok because you have staked out the moral high ground solely for yourself and you simply deny ever actually intending offense with your passively-aggressive snarky remarks. What's really funny about your obsession with this moral crusade to "educate" others about the bad behavior of the "click" [sic] is that it should have been obvious to everyone else before the lightbulb went on over your head. So we've been blessed with the spectacle of seeing you put yourself up on a pedestal, congratulate yourself after a few agree with you, weasel around to avoid admitting you could possibly be a hypocrite while engaging in the same behaviors you deplore, and pretend to be interested in discussion until even thoughtful, objective posters like darkinshadows give up on you in disgust. Give youself a medal because it looks like everyone is getting bored with you, and so you'll finally get the last word. This is all so ludicrous it is priceless! Thank you very much! arf arf arf!

velvetears -> RE: Constructive Ideas Needed (5/15/2007 1:17:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: happypervert quote: Disagreements are fine - it's when people do make personal attacks i have an issue. Unless, of course, it is you making the personal attacks -- then it is ok because you have staked out the moral high ground solely for yourself and you simply deny ever actually intending offense with your passively-aggressive snarky remarks. What's really funny about your obsession with this moral crusade to "educate" others about the bad behavior of the "click" [sic] is that it should have been obvious to everyone else before the lightbulb went on over your head. So we've been blessed with the spectacle of seeing you put yourself up on a pedestal, congratulate yourself after a few agree with you, weasel around to avoid admitting you could possibly be a hypocrite while engaging in the same behaviors you deplore, and pretend to be interested in discussion until even thoughtful, objective posters like darkinshadows give up on you in disgust. Give youself a medal because it looks like everyone is getting bored with you, and so you'll finally get the last word. This is all so ludicrous it is priceless! Thank you very much! arf arf arf! You obviously have trouble reading...poor dear. You have a vested interested in the clique... without them you would have no purpose here... no one to bounce rude, crude and cruel remarks off of who will tolerate your rudeness. They give you a platform, and that makes you feel like a somebody - too bad you can't feel that way on your own through thoughtful dialogue and interesting thoughts of your own, instead of arfing at everyone, making snide comments and general childish behavior.... but glad it gave you something to read.... tata

velvetears -> RE: Constructive Ideas Needed (5/15/2007 1:41:12 PM)
[To no one specific and everyone in general] Thinking about how negative this thread turned got me to remembering the time i spent with a bunch of alcoholic siblings. They were so caught up in their addiction and getting the booze/drugs they needed that whenever they were called on their behavior they would send up all kinds of smoke screens around the issue so the focus would veer away from them onto something or someone else. They always had an excuse, they always justified their behavior, they always had a reason they drank, which to their minds seemed absolutely plausible. When really cornered they would point their finger at anyone who challenged them or called them to task for their addictive, dysfunctional behavior indignantly pointing out their accusers own faults, like this somehow justified all their culpability with their own addictive chaos. What else could they do if in fact they didn’t want to face their demons? They enjoyed and were comfortable with their behaviors and could care less who they hurt or what life they were disrupting. Helping them was fruitless, but allowing them to go about creating pain and anguish around them wasn’t the answer either. The old saying goes… misery loves company. i have been accused of being a bully, a hypocrite, a wind bag lol, and various other adjectives. i don’t believe i am those things, i realize that’s their only defense to indefensible actions – tear me down, try to drag me to their level. Not one person had the courage to say – yes i thrive on drama and i am a bully, that’s why i follow drama threads around and tear apart the op with my group of buddies, i relish the opportunity. i have a new word to add to the list of adjectives i would describe this clique as – cowards as well. To those of you who responded with sincerity i thank you and apologize for the meelee that ensued because a group of people became so threatened someone dared attempt to rain on their little parade…..

darkinshadows -> RE: Constructive Ideas Needed (5/15/2007 1:57:09 PM)
quote: Good, anything to make the mods jobs easier, I would not want that job for anything myself. It is certainly a 'job' that gets little thanks and much critique. Peace

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