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RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 8:18:40 AM   
merrysbrat


Posts: 118
Joined: 6/9/2005
From: Minnesooootah
Status: offline 		Not really, I went to school in Minnesota, and spanish was a required class for almost all of my elementary years, as well as two of my Jr. High years. Several of my friends that went to High School here instead of getting a GED had to complete at least two years of spanish. Not one of these schools ever offered ANY other language aside from french one year (which was extra-curricular and you still had to take spanish as well) and Hmong for one quarter of a year. (Also, extra-curricular and you had to take spanish as well.) If they had ever offered german in any of those schools I would have jumped on it.

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 8:29:20 AM   
Dauric


Posts: 254
Joined: 7/13/2006
Status: offline 		In theory I agree that we should teach multiple languages in our schools, and I'd be far less euro-centric about it. The moden economic dynamism of the "Far East" cannot be ignored, and we should be encouraging students to learn the language and culture of these countries that will in short order become massivey important trade and business partners to the U.S. Smaller trade colleges should make deals with state and federal colleges to open up the possibilities of what languages a student has access to when getting a bachelor's degree. I can see the use of spanish, but I can see the use of Chinese, Japanese, and East Indian languages as well. It was the economic and military success of the U.S.A. that encouraged it to be taught around the world, we must be mindful of that when deciding what languages to learn.

In theory I agree with it.

In practice I notice that our schools are underfunded, teachers are dealing with class-sizes that top 30 to 50 or more stuents. They're not teachers any more, they're not even babysitters, they're prison wardens. Cirriculum for our education institutions is either watered down, or under fire from extreme right and/or extreme left wing politics (the infamous Kansas BoE as a prime example).

Maybe, when teachers get paid what they're really worth to a society and we can, as a people, seperate fact from opinion and successfully teach students a -first- language without the degredations of "Ebonics" or "Netspeak" being accepted (Yes, there are school districts whre it is acceptale for students to use "Netspeak" on tests), then it is worthwhile to talk about second languages.

$0.02,

Dauric.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 8:35:39 AM   
Dauric


Posts: 254
Joined: 7/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: merrysbrat

Not really, I went to school in Minnesota, and spanish was a required class for almost all of my elementary years, as well as two of my Jr. High years. Several of my friends that went to High School here instead of getting a GED had to complete at least two years of spanish. Not one of these schools ever offered ANY other language aside from french one year (which was extra-curricular and you still had to take spanish as well) and Hmong for one quarter of a year. (Also, extra-curricular and you had to take spanish as well.) If they had ever offered german in any of those schools I would have jumped on it.


Pretty much reflects my own experiences.

Grew up in California, then moved to Colorado. Spanish was a required language in Ca grade schools, no others were an option. Art College was required Spanish, end of story, the school wasn't going to pay to hire an instructor in anything else.

And I -Still- can't speak spanish.

The options for selecting a language to learn are pretty slim in the U.S.of A.

$0.02,

Dauric.

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 8:42:30 AM   
RigidChopper


Posts: 19
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline 		I took Jr High and High School Spanish. My town is largely hispanic in population now and find myself speaking a little when out shopping.  Giving kids the choice of a language to learn is a wise idea.  It doesnt necessarily have to be spanish, however it is one of most widely used languages outside of English. 

Children of immigrants shouldnt be allowed in public school unless their parents can provide proof of citizenship or legal residency.  Children of legal immigrants should be mainstreamed as soon as possible if they do not already speak english.  It's that simple to me.

I dont believe that the Spanish language has a place in being "official" anything in the USA. Speak english or go back where you came from.....

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 8:55:31 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		I suppose no school system's perfect but... aren't you glad you were given the opportunity to learn Spanish?! To me it seems great.

It's probably because there's a large spanish speaking community where you went to school :-)

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RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 8:57:24 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RigidChopper

Children of immigrants shouldnt be allowed in public school unless their parents can provide proof of citizenship or legal residency.  Children of legal immigrants should be mainstreamed as soon as possible if they do not already speak english.  It's that simple to me.

I dont believe that the Spanish language has a place in being "official" anything in the USA. Speak english or go back where you came from.....



OMG... no comment.

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 9:03:22 AM   
Dauric


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Joined: 7/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

I suppose no school system's perfect but... aren't you glad you were given the opportunity to learn Spanish?! To me it seems great.

It's probably because there's a large spanish speaking community where you went to school :-)


No. Not really. Personally I've always been more interested in Japan and China.(Yes, I'll admit it, I'm an Anime Otaku and I've wanted to learn Japanse since I discovered Anime in the mid 80's) I can't get my head wrapped around the latin-based languages (tried to take french in H.S. Never got that one either), just the way I'm wired I suppose. My time would have been far-far better spent elsewhere, on a different language.

I learn programing languages well, and one of the reasons that I say I'm probably just not wired to learn spanish, or probbly any other language all that easily. I don't know if I could even learn Japanese, but I can say that I would remain interested.

Just my $0.02

Dauric.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 9:05:33 AM   
merrysbrat


Posts: 118
Joined: 6/9/2005
From: Minnesooootah
Status: offline 		Coming from someone who grew up in an area full of hispanic people, no, I can't say I was ever happy it was 'offered' to me. I was incredibly pissed off that spanish was shoved down my throat when most of them never even learned to speak english when they came to America by choice. Besides that, I do think spanish is a kind of ugly sounding language in general, I would rather learn something pretty like french, which is exactly why I took up sindarin, but that's a long boring story.

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 9:09:08 AM   
RigidChopper


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

I suppose no school system's perfect but... aren't you glad you were given the opportunity to learn Spanish?! To me it seems great.

It's probably because there's a large spanish speaking community where you went to school :-)


I took Spanish voluntarily,  yeah, today it works more or less out of necessity.  

I have no problem with people who wish to come to this country legally and enjoy the benefits of being a citizen. 

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 9:12:10 AM   
merrysbrat


Posts: 118
Joined: 6/9/2005
From: Minnesooootah
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dauric

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

I suppose no school system's perfect but... aren't you glad you were given the opportunity to learn Spanish?! To me it seems great.

It's probably because there's a large spanish speaking community where you went to school :-)


No. Not really. Personally I've always been more interested in Japan and China.(Yes, I'll admit it, I'm an Anime Otaku and I've wanted to learn Japanse since I discovered Anime in the mid 80's) I can't get my head wrapped around the latin-based languages (tried to take french in H.S. Never got that one either), just the way I'm wired I suppose. My time would have been far-far better spent elsewhere, on a different language.

I learn programing languages well, and one of the reasons that I say I'm probably just not wired to learn spanish, or probbly any other language all that easily. I don't know if I could even learn Japanese, but I can say that I would remain interested.

Just my $0.02

Dauric.


I wish I could learn Japanese too, I had a hard time with Hmong though, so I'm probably not smart enough for Japanese. It would be kickass to be able to see some real anime and understand it without having to have english voices dubbed over.


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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 9:13:10 AM   
Dauric


Posts: 254
Joined: 7/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: RigidChopper

Children of immigrants shouldnt be allowed in public school unless their parents can provide proof of citizenship or legal residency.  Children of legal immigrants should be mainstreamed as soon as possible if they do not already speak english.  It's that simple to me.

I dont believe that the Spanish language has a place in being "official" anything in the USA. Speak english or go back where you came from.....



OMG... no comment.


I'l admit that Rigidchopper has an inelegant way to put it, but essentialy a practical viewpoint.

First point, about immigrants not putting their children in public schools without proof of naturalization is fiscal. Teachers are dealing with class populations that hover around the half-century mark. This is simply too many children for any one teacher, any one human-being, to deal with. Illegal immigrants are often paid "Under the Table" and do not have deductinons for income-tax, social security, and the like. To allow all -illegal- immigrant students (I can see possibilities for certain case-by-case exceptions, but that's it.) to use the public system is to drain the resources of a system allready fighting from massive budgeing constraints and shortfalls.

"Mainstreaming" -legal- immigrant children goes to government efficiency and o maintaining the opportunites implied by the concepts of the "American Dream". One cannot tell how long it will take for any child to learn a language, and as such begining as early as possible is a benefit to the child as much as it is a benefit to our society, letting them be able to know the acepted language of government and higher education by the time they are old enough to need to deal with college loan applications and voter registration.

$0.02,

Dauric.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 9:15:42 AM   
darkinshadows


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From: UK
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I am not from the U.S - but I would of loved to learn spanish.  Instead, we were force fed French.  In general, children here still are (although german is an alternative too) and spanish is entering the school system slowly.
 
I just found your statement interesting merry, because isn't it just how it always goes?
One is offered a limited amount of language and one always wants the opposite?
 
Peace


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(in reply to merrysbrat)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 9:20:08 AM   
merrysbrat


Posts: 118
Joined: 6/9/2005
From: Minnesooootah
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

I am not from the U.S - but I would of loved to learn spanish.  Instead, we were force fed French.  In general, children here still are (although german is an alternative too) and spanish is entering the school system slowly.
 
I just found your statement interesting merry, because isn't it just how it always goes?
One is offered a limited amount of language and one always wants the opposite?
 
Peace



Seems like it. I did always want to learn german though, even before going into elemantary school, which stemmed froma fascination I had with my great grandparent's history. I just grew tired of a lot of the hispanic culture and the language seems to go right along with it.


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RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 9:24:19 AM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia
Should we just go ahead and make English and Spanish the official languages of the United States?
That way students will be expected to learn both languages and it will make it easier for everyone.


Absolutely not.  I believe that there should be stronger and longer ESL/english immersion classes in public school as well as more accessible (and free if not low cost) adult education english classes for immigrants and speaking english should be a requirement for becoming an American citizen.  I also believe that english should be the official language of America and I have no plans to learn spanish and my current and future fields of work don't remotely require knowing/speaking spanish.

C~

Edited for an embarassing typo...


< Message edited by Wildfleurs -- 5/14/2007 9:30:39 AM >

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RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 9:49:16 AM   
LightHeartedMaam


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Joined: 5/12/2007
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quote:

It always fascinates me when people come to the United States whining about the horror of the country they left, and immediately start trying to remake the United States into the horror they left.


I think you hit the nail on the head. I know this is how I feel also.

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RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 10:10:45 AM   
LightHeartedMaam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Why not? Spanish is fast becoming the most widely spoken language in the United States (as a matter of fact, I think it will be the majority language in twenty years or so).



I can see it now, the New Majority deals with deciding the new national language.  It's Spanish, but which one?   Mexican Spanish? European Spanish? Puerto Rican Spanish?  They can then be sub-divided again or argue what is the "true" Spanish..  To lisp or not to lisp, that will be the question.

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 10:20:45 AM   
Dauric


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Joined: 7/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LightHeartedMaam

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Why not? Spanish is fast becoming the most widely spoken language in the United States (as a matter of fact, I think it will be the majority language in twenty years or so).



I can see it now, the New Majority deals with deciding the new national language.  It's Spanish, but which one?   Mexican Spanish? European Spanish? Puerto Rican Spanish?  They can then be sub-divided again or argue what is the "true" Spanish..  To lisp or not to lisp, that will be the question.


This of course brings up the point that the spanish taught in the U.S. is not any of these, but rather an amalgamation of european and south-american dialects, all of it boiled down for simplicity. It's 'understandable' by an actual spanish speaker, but not really thier language.

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 10:32:35 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LightHeartedMaam

quote:

It always fascinates me when people come to the United States whining about the horror of the country they left, and immediately start trying to remake the United States into the horror they left.


I think you hit the nail on the head. I know this is how I feel also.


But all people came over here and took their culture and attributes of their language and added them to our own. The only culture that ever force fed another a language on the people already present here were English speaking European descendents, and that occurred when our ancestors tried to commit cultural genocide on the native inhabitants by taking them away from their families, forcing them to speak English, and making them dress in the style of the invaders... other than that people have come and added who they were to the mix. This is what makes this country great in my opinion, that we can adjust to let others add their cultural attributes and become more innovative as a result. People coming here have always changed things, even the ones that were forced into it (Black people and Native Americans).

I do not think of other countries with other cultures as being somehow inferior to our own, I do not see their languages as something to shun, and I have noticed that these days the only immigrants that have their languages frowned upon are the ones with the brown skins. Nothing new in this country. I have seen people refer to Spanish as an "ugly" language, when it is downright musical compared to many other European languages. It never ceases to amaze me how ethnocentric people are... 

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RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 10:37:17 AM   
merrysbrat


Posts: 118
Joined: 6/9/2005
From: Minnesooootah
Status: offline 		Just becuase spanish culture is nothing to be ashamed of, doesn't mean america should adopt it, there's in the same sense, nothing wrong with american culture as well, and spanish culture has all of mexico to flourish in.

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 10:41:20 AM   
merrysbrat


Posts: 118
Joined: 6/9/2005
From: Minnesooootah
Status: offline 		And I know it's just my opinion that spanish language is ugly. Some people consider german ugly even though I find it beautiful.

_____________________________

Does a four year old really have an ego?

R.I.P. River <3

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Profile   Post #: 60
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