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RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 10:45:56 AM

juliaoceania

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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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It is Mexican culture, not "Spanish". That is like calling American culture "English". I love Mexican culture, and since I live in a state heavy in Mexican influence (we used to be a part of Mexico in case you were not aware) it makes sense to me to honor that heritage just as I honor other people's heritage. There is nothing wrong with honoring the history of an area either, and in the case of California, I am honoring my home state's culture by acknowledging the beauty of the Mexican influence here, as well as the Spanish.

I also honor the native presense too, and have helped recreate it through archaelogical digs I have taken part in.... human diversity is one of the most beautiful things in the world to me

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Post #: 61

RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 10:46:19 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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Well I generally agree with Fleur.

Ireland still has Gaelic as their official language and I was pretty much forced to learn the basics- even though most everything was in both English and Gaelic, English was definitely pushed as the secondary language and it made it much easier in getting around.

They are freaking out because so many learn English primarily and are afraid Gaelic will die out over the next few generations as a spoken living language.

I don't see a reason to make it another language the official language of the country, but I certainly agree that we need more immersion/ESL classes provided.

As far as learning another language as a native English speaker, I found that learning ANY other language taught me so much about my own grammar and structure and flexed my mind in ways that I don't think any other way could have.

As for what languages to provide- it would be great if any language could be offered anywhere. Perhaps with net classes this will become more of a reality. Until then, the funding and availability of resources and teachers is always limited. Unless students really make a forceful push for it, if it's not already there, it won't be forthcoming.

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Post #: 62

RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 10:48:09 AM

merrysbrat

Posts: 118
Joined: 6/9/2005
From: Minnesooootah
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

It is Mexican culture, not "Spanish". That is like calling American culture "English". I love Mexican culture, and since I live in a state heavy in Mexican influence (we used to be a part of Mexico in case you were not aware) it makes sense to me to honor that heritage just as I honor other people's heritage. There is nothing wrong with honoring the history of an area either, and in the case of California, I am honoring my home state's culture by acknowledging the beauty of the Mexican influence here, as well as the Spanish.

I also honor the native presense too, and have helped recreate it through archaelogical digs I have taken part in.... human diversity is one of the most beautiful things in the world to me

So you like it, but why should it be forced down other people's throats when they don't?

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Post #: 63

RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 12:25:04 PM

darkinshadows

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Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: merrysbrat

quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

I am not from the U.S - but I would of loved to learn spanish. Instead, we were force fed French. In general, children here still are (although german is an alternative too) and spanish is entering the school system slowly.

I just found your statement interesting merry, because isn't it just how it always goes?
One is offered a limited amount of language and one always wants the opposite?

Peace

Seems like it. I did always want to learn german though, even before going into elemantary school, which stemmed froma fascination I had with my great grandparent's history. I just grew tired of a lot of the hispanic culture and the language seems to go right along with it.

I was fortunate as I was allowed to study german after two years for french (a language I still have problems with) so I was able to study both. But I would have much rather studied german and spanish. Eventually I decided to drop languages, and concentrated on other subjects instead... however I still have fairly good basic level (I think).

I am making the assumption that language, as many things, are based on what is happening in the now. Back when I was at school - France was close, the tunnel was opening and it was the nearest country with a different language.

Now, germany and spain seem to be the two most popular destinations that people from the UK eventually go to - either to visit or work - other than the states or canada.

But that is just an assumption.

Peace

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RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 12:33:13 PM

selfbnd411

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We must prurify these United States of all foreign words, imo. Let's start with the 50 states. 39 of the 50 American states are named with alien words--generally Indian, Spanish, and French in origin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_name_etymologies

Then after we have them all renamed, we can figure out a new name for America, since America is a Spanish name.

(in reply to merrysbrat)

Post #: 65

RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 12:47:31 PM

LightHeartedMaam

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I honor any culture that raises my property value.

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Post #: 66

RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 1:05:31 PM

Dauric

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quote:

ORIGINAL: selfbnd411

Then after we have them all renamed, we can figure out a new name for America, since America is a Spanish name.

Actually, just to be flippant about the flippancy, "America" is terribly American. The actual explorer's name was "Amerigua"*, and in true American style, it was butchered to "America"

*I'm probably spelling it wrong, but I'm American. I do know however that there's a "g" in the explorer's name.

$0.02,

Dauric.

(in reply to selfbnd411)

Post #: 67

RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 2:50:24 PM

maybemaybenot

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Joined: 9/22/2005
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To the people who have posted how wonderful other countries are because a second language is required in school:

Please name me the country who has this practice, who ALSO is trying to make the required second language the countries second national language? They do it for educational reasons, not for social change reasons. Big Difference !

I think it is advantageous to every student to learn another language. But not to be assigned Spanish as the only option. Where I live we have a growing Hispanic community, but the primary group of non English speaking immigrants are Portuguese and Brazilians. If I spoke Portuguese I would be able to command a higher dollar amount also, I chose not to learn it. My Spanish does not help me at all when dealing with these folks.

There are parts of this country where there are higher percentages of non Hispanic immigrants who don't speak English. So what shall we do about this ? Make the language of the predominant immigrant group the second language region by region ? Or is it just the Spansish speaking immigrants we need to cater to, because the others really don't matter?

mbmbn

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RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 4:25:22 PM

asubmissiveheart

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Joined: 11/20/2006
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With the rate of hispanic immigrants flowing into this country, we all are going
to need to learn Spanish or be left behind.

(in reply to merrysbrat)

Post #: 69

RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 4:28:18 PM

minnetar

Posts: 1272
Joined: 4/11/2007
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i definitely believe that english should be the official language. (sorry ranting here) i get irritated when i have a patient call in and ask if anyone speaks spanish and i try to help only to find them tell me that they shouldn't be billed as they have either Indiana Medicaid and also another local program funded through the county i live. i just feel the people moving here should try harder to assimilate.

yes i believe Americans are very arrogant and very few are bilingual. i admire so many other countries because of it but i don't feel it is something we should be forced to do.

minnetar

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 70

RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 4:58:44 PM

windchymes

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Joined: 4/18/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

No.
Immigrants shouldn't even be allowed into the country unless they have a good command of English.
Let them learn it on their dime.

Oh, I never said WE should foot the bill for their learning English! I only said THEY had to pass competency exams!

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Post #: 71

RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 5:27:54 PM

maybemaybenot

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Joined: 9/22/2005
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I can only speak for my area, but in Boston and Providence their are quite a few Immingrant Workers Assoc and Immigrant Support Centers that offer English to any immigrant, any country, any age, free of charge. However, I would gladly agree to a portion of my tax dollars going to free English Lessons for non English speaking people. Actually, I would applaud such a bill.

Strangely enough the Immigrant Workers Unions and Associations encourage people to learn English, so they can get better jobs and a higher standard of living. And for the most part these organizations here are run by immigrants. Some have become citizens, some have not. These organizations get great support and many volunteers from the " native community".

mbmbn

_____________________________

Tolerance of evil is suicide.- NYC Firefighter

When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

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Post #: 72

RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 7:55:14 PM

Griswold

Posts: 2739
Joined: 2/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

I posted that I am learning Spanish and it will be to my advantage in general,
and specifically career wise.
I have called several businesses and they asked me if I wanted assistance in Spanish,
before asking me if I need assistance in English.
It is well known that if you go into certain areas of Florida and Texas, if you don't know
some Spanish you are sol.
It took me a while to really accept that I SHOULD learn Spanish to increase my job opportunities,
and frankly if I KNOW I am going to deal with many students that are learning English as a second language,
and their parents that may or not know any English, that I should learn Spanish!
It is making life a lot simplier for me, not knowing Spanish soon will be a handicapping situation.
We all know that in about 20 years there will be more Latino's in the USA than any other group of people.
Should we just go ahead and make English and Spanish the official languages of the United States?
That way students will be expected to learn both languages and it will make it easier for everyone.

Do You Speak American . For Educators . Curriculum . High School . Spanish | PBS

ProEnglish: The English Language Advocates

Speak English, your in America now - Topix

espanol.com : "If you don't speak Spanish, you might be left behind". An article in USA today on the growing importance of th...

Healthy debate here, be gentle please. lol

I read your earlier (in another CM forum) post regards a similar topic.

I believe Popeye (I could be in error...it's happened twice since 1998), or someone else, was reverberating about how it's wrong that we should be so responsive to 'their" needs....but....

You hit the mark. Well done.

I own two firms; One, a local construction company, requiring lots of field labor, another a national firm (which requires much less of the former). Both do well, one relies on (60% crew makeup) Hispanic folks to fulfill client requests that run from Monday through 2011.

One doesn't.

While these dudes work harder (and longer...with no complaining) than any Gringo (I would be a Gringo...in case anyone was curious)....I spend at LEAST 5 times the amount of time with these guys every morning explaining what needs to be done "today"....than any of the white guys (because they {the Hispanics} don't speak English!!!).

But you know what?

They get the job done. (Better than any of the "American" crew I employ).

Do I wish they could speak better English?

Uhhhhhhh.....DOH!!!

Do I wish I could speak better Spanish?

Of course.

I'm paying my (less than clear English speaking) employees to attend English speaking classes. (I don't pay American born to do that).

I've bought them software to spend an hour a night taking "classes" to better communicate with me (and by virtue...our clients).

I've even offered to set up a spot in my offices wherein which they could take time...on the clock...using my computers (if they don't have one for themselves)....to learn English. Some have.

Those that take me up on my offer...and learn shortly how to communicate to others (not just key phrases)...make more money.

English (contrary to some headlines) is our native language.

My Dad told me 30 some years ago..."Son...learn how to paint, learn how to fix leaky pipes....everyone needs those things, and in all economic environemts, someone will need them...you'll be able to eat....but remember this, always....if you can communicate your (or others) needs in a clear fashion...you'll always excell and rise above..."

Do I wish that the US would choose a language and then stick to it...through all the PC accoutrements that follow?

Of course.

But like MzMia, I'm smart enough to realize...this ain't gonna change in my favor anytime soon...and the likelihood is, by 2020, Spanish is likely to be the state/national language....whether we want it to be or not...and I'm getting in the game.

My answer is..."Yes....English should be the national language (as last I'm told....it was)...."....

But....since that's not likely going to be the case....I'm thinking I'm just gonna cover my ass here....and invest in a little multiculturalism.

< Message edited by Griswold -- 5/14/2007 8:08:48 PM >

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 73

RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 8:00:29 PM

Sinergy

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Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: minnetar

i definitely believe that english should be the official language. (sorry ranting here) i get irritated when i have a patient call in and ask if anyone speaks spanish

Schedule them for a rectal examine while you look for somebody who speaks their language.

Cant give too many tests to figure out what ails them.

Sinergy

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Post #: 74

RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 8:14:08 PM

MzMia

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Joined: 7/30/2004
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Thanks Griswald, no one HAS to learn Spanish to live in America.
But with so many hispanics HERE, it is wise for many of us to at
learn to speak some Spanish. Rather than focus on the negatives, I
look at some of the fun I will have when I learn conversational Spanish.

I don't think Spanish will become another official language in America.
But, as you stated in 20 years it sure as hell will be the other unofficial language.

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Post #: 75

RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 8:42:17 PM

Cefoxitin

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Joined: 3/7/2007
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Every time I go to someone elce's country, I learn the language Or at least enough to get by on. It would be nice if they would return the favor.

American English in America, that is the only option.

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Post #: 76

RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 8:51:27 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
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I have bosses who tell me they like when I pick up jobs with them because I WORK.

I respond "dude, I am here to work."

Lacking a work ethic is not a trait of white people. However, it is a trait of a lot of people, and
making everbody speak a bunch of different languages wont fix the problem of lazy-ass poor work
ethic people.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to Griswold)

Post #: 77

RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 8:52:01 PM

Griswold

Posts: 2739
Joined: 2/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Thanks Griswald, no one HAS to learn Spanish to live in America.
But with so many hispanics HERE, it is wise for many of us to at
learn to speak some Spanish. Rather than focus on the negatives, I
look at some of the fun I will have when I learn conversational Spanish.

(And make more money because of it. My favorite color has always been green....goes with almost anything! Works for me!)

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 78

RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 8:54:42 PM

merrysbrat

Posts: 118
Joined: 6/9/2005
From: Minnesooootah
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cefoxitin

Every time I go to someone elce's country, I learn the language Or at least enough to get by on. It would be nice if they would return the favor.

American English in America, that is the only option.

Exactly. If you were to move to Mexico permanently would you not learn spanish, folks...or would you just expect everyone there to learn english?

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Post #: 79

RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official la... - 5/14/2007 9:01:57 PM

MzMia

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Joined: 7/30/2004
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LOL merrysbrat most of the points made have been valid, but let me restate this one again.
Within the next 30 years, Hispanic Americans will probably be in the majority and everyone
else will be a minority.
LOL ==Spanish may become the dual language whether we LIKE it or not.
This will basically BE Mexico soon, wake up and smell the coffee.
Hasta la vista baby

< Message edited by MzMia -- 5/14/2007 9:08:37 PM >

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To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

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"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

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Post #: 80

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