RE: Need Input Please (Full Version)

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addicted2it -> RE: Need Input Please (5/14/2007 9:36:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I HAVE met gorians in real life and to a man they looked more like jabba the hut than tarzan and the only thing they were really interested in defending were doughnuts.


They were't policemen by any chance?
Peace



Much of what you say need not be said.  You are, not only wasting precious time, but bandwidth, simply because you are so verbose.



velvetears -> RE: Need Input Please (5/14/2007 9:49:27 AM)

Sounds to me like he is a bit obsessed with something he found that makes him feel like he found a part of who he was - he has identified with the goreans but didn't really take the time to learn what it takes to be gorean.  He dragged you in blind - it's no wonder it didn't work out.  How can one go from vanilla with zero knowlege of gor, bdsm, D/s etc to becoming a gorean slave??? i give you a lot of credit for even trying. 

You obviously love this man very much and want to make the situation workable. Maybe he can compromise and get some of what he wants with you. Perhaps you can, for specified periods of time, be his submissive with all the negotiations and limits subs are allowed.  Why not, if he wants to have a slave, bring her into the relationship and she can be both your slave - this way you can learn first hand how that interaction works.  i have no idea if submission or any bdsm activities appeal to you at all, you never said one way or the other.  If you feel open to it - give it a try - on YOUR terms.



NakedGirlScout -> RE: Need Input Please (5/14/2007 9:56:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

And purely because I'm the local agent provocateur I would LOVE to see this posted on the Gor bored... forgive me, board, just to sit back and enjoy the flames ;-)


The man is not acting in either a Gorean or a BDSM manner; he's acting like the other posters have already said, an angry inept control freak. Whether one is Gorean or non-Gorean, the basis of the master/slave relationship is to ensure the wellbeing of both people, with the Master being more or less responsible for the wellbeing of the slave depending on how much of a power exchange there is in that relationship.

I wish people wouldn't trash other lifestyles even if there are "bad apples" who give a bad name to them. It's no better than the media portraying BDSM doms as psycho mass-murderers and subs as poor abused doormats. The OP's husband would have been a self-centred bully no matter which lifestyle he claimed to be following, because that's his personality.

Unfortunately I have no advice on what to do about him. I don't know if he's so carried away by his fantasies that he'll return to reality.



darkinshadows -> RE: Need Input Please (5/14/2007 10:03:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: addicted2it

Much of what you say need not be said.  You are, not only wasting precious time, but bandwidth, simply because you are so verbose.


Goodness - is there no end today?
Why waste bandwidth to inform another they are verbose when that only makes one verbose as well?
 
The OP asked for assistance.  People seem more intent on blaming it on Gor and that he is a self proclaimed gorean than the fact that he is a man who seems - via the OPs original post - to have abused beyond her comfort zone, then wishes to become poly (or maybe have his cake and eat it).
If Gor had not been mentioned, posters would simply up in arms that he was using BDSM as an excuse to sleep around.  But because it is gor - lets just get with the gorean bashing hey.
 
Lets not forget for a moment a woman has lost the man she thought she knew, was beaten beyond what she thinks was right, and is feeling as though she is expected to just comply.
 
Hows that for being verbose?[;)]
Peace and Rapture



szobras -> RE: Need Input Please (5/14/2007 10:04:48 AM)

 With self dicovery comes self awareness, and self  proclomation does not equal either. Be it a BDSM Master, a Gorean Master, or a Master Bater. Ones personal actions do not validate a whole community or a dynamic, only the person within it. Ethical, and responsible behavior, have nothing to do with a choice name of lifestyle.
They have to do with the person.



addicted2it -> RE: Need Input Please (5/14/2007 10:08:17 AM)

Of course.  I would expect no less from you.



NakedGirlScout -> RE: Need Input Please (5/14/2007 10:11:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I HAVE met gorians in real life and to a man they looked more like jabba the hut than tarzan and the only thing they were really interested in defending were doughnuts.

We can't go in there and call them on their bs when they talk about how "we" as bdsmers live in a fantasy world but at least here, we can speak our own truths without having their babysitters bitch and whine about trolling.


Dear Michael,
I feel excluded and a little appalled by the comments you have made. I know you didn't mean to point fingers at everyone and were making a generalization. But do I really look like Jabba the Hut to you? Have I done any bitching and whining to the point that it offended you? I also mostly avoid the Gorean boards because they seem to harbor some very aggressive and fantasy-driven people; but the Gorean board is not where the majority of actual Gorean people are posting, because those traits also turn us off. Most of us live without creating conflict and are warm and accepting of lots of other choices. I'm sorry that "they" have given you such a bad example, but I beg you not to throw out the baby with the dirty bathwater, so to speak.

My apologies for hijacking the post, but I didn't want to start an "in defense of..." new topic because it would turn into you-know-what. I still say the OP's husband is misusing Gor as a simple excuse to do whatever the hell he wants, just like some crazy-assed fire'n'brimstone christians will make the Bible into something ugly and dangerous when it should be used differently.
peace,
Molly



FelinePersuasion -> RE: Need Input Please (5/14/2007 10:12:15 AM)

Please keep in mind also, that Domineering, is not the same as Domination.



darkinshadows -> RE: Need Input Please (5/14/2007 10:26:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: addicted2it

Of course.  I would expect no less from you.

Phew - thank goodness - I would not wish to disappoint.[;)]
Peace



dawntreader -> RE: Need Input Please (5/14/2007 10:33:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

And purely because I'm the local agent provocateur I would LOVE to see this posted on the Gor bored... forgive me, board, just to sit back and enjoy the flames ;-)


kittinSol,
 
 you are amusing~ you do realize that the interpretation of a agent provacateur online is "troll" ? i personally would not find much personal satisfaction in an identity based on provoking unrest, violence, debate, or argument for its sake only but it is nice that you are so open about your intentions...one does have to give you credit for honesty. 



Mercnbeth -> RE: Need Input Please (5/14/2007 10:43:48 AM)

quote:

Am I crazy? He treats me so much better now that I am no longer his slave. But like I asked, am I crazy?What is your input on all this?

robin,
Crazy? No.
Are you an enabler? No doubt, based upon what you say, you are.

Eliminate the smoke screen of 'Gor' and you are a wife whose attempt, as represented here, to please her husband of many years has failed. Your attempt is honorable. It speaks to your commitment and your integrity. Trying and failing is noble.

Your attempt should be used as a illustration of a possible result for any couple where one individual tries to become something they are not to please their partner.

But now what? He's your partner in marriage. He is no longer your "master" in any connotation. His words to; "...never allow this lifestyle to tear our marriage apart"; have a misplaced pronoun. With you on the outside looking in on his activities without unilateral acceptance and agreement; this is HIS marriage. What about you?

It's not a selfish question. You were presented with something that he "discovered" and immersed himself. I assume it wasn't anticipated on your wedding day or in your marriage/relationship plans. The 'contract' has been voided by one side. In effect, you are back to where you were 16 years ago and you need to decide whether the new plans he has for his life work for you. 

Before you list them, lets put the considerations for that decision up front; kids, assets, house, friends, society stigma, begin alone; are all back in play. The evaluation you need to make is if any of these are more important, and will be just as important for the next 16 years, than your personal happiness. If they are - you stay; and resign yourself to a future of more of the same. 

Can you do without the material things? Can you use your integrity, dedication, and commitment traits and be strong enough to get out of the relationship situation that makes you unhappy for the potential of finding a relationship that does? That is the hard part isn't it, the unknown. If you knew that a few years from now you'd be entrenched in a more fulfilling partnership its an easy decision to leave. Life is not that easy.

Good luck!



krikket -> RE: Need Input Please (5/14/2007 11:05:48 AM)

I'll try to keep this short..try being the important word here..lol.

In my opinion your husband's first mistake was not fully disclosing what his defination of slave is, and that of Gor or Master or any of the above.   I say this because there appear to me as many definations as their are people.  Not all ppl of Gor agree with each other any more than all vanilla people agree.  His second mistake was not to educate you, slowly and carefully.  He decided to change the rules without your imput, which is pretty tacky to me.  To be honest i don't have a lot in common with Gor and repect only a few who call themselves Gor.  my  ex (of 9 years now), pulled something very similar on me.  However, once we were "back" to normal, i overheard him refer to me as his domestic slave.  (My reaction was very unslave like..lol).  At the time  was determined to save my marriage of 25+ years so did all I could to be a "good" wife as he defined it.

i listed to everyone that was willing to share with me what  they thought of Gor, read lots of Gor articles on line -- basically i did my research.  For me (and me only as i make no claims of how others might feel), i came to the decision that his particular brand of Gor was a great escuse to to 2 things:  First, to run around and have all the fun he wanted without any of the guilt a married man might experience when going out to play when his spouse remained faithful.  The second part was that he wasn't a "natural" dominant, but was a control freak, and it was a great excuse to abuse a woman. 

Absolutely none of this may apply to you, but on the off change it does I thought I'd write.  So many things have changed in my life since we separated and subsequently divorced, but i've been carful not to condemn all because of the actions of a few.  If you'd like to talk further please feel free to email.

To finish up, it's you and you along (in my opinion) that has to decide what to do, what to "allows" and how to continue.  Contrary to some, the dom does not hold all the cards.

Good luck..and God speed
jimini

PS i hope i was able to clearly state my thoughts.  i'm taking some pain pills that make me a "little" loopy"...lol



kittinSol -> RE: Need Input Please (5/14/2007 12:19:44 PM)

Thank you.



kittinSol -> RE: Need Input Please (5/14/2007 12:23:53 PM)

I disagree with you. It's not because I don't mollycoddle the people I disagree with, and act hypocritically so to keep the comfortable social consensus going, that I am a troll.

Thank you for the insult though, hmpf.

An 'agent provocateur' is a good element, it isn't necessarily about riling people up, but it does get the blood going. Like a good whipping. Fancy one?

[;)]



robertolapiedra -> RE: Need Input Please (5/14/2007 1:30:17 PM)

Hello Rrobinlarkway. I will give you input without explanations as they are not necessary:

1- You 'are' not a slave. (This is why I will not explain)
2- He is not a master. (no matter what mythology he uses to justify his exploitation)
3- You have been had. (exploited probably to point of abuse)
4- He is obsessed. (probably sex addiction which has to do with the inability to
distinguish erotic fantasy from common sense real life. (he's nuts! full time gaga!)
5- Get out of there now! get counseling and stay with friends and family. (Don't stay   
  alone until this is resolved in a sane way.)

Do it NOW! (please do it as soon as possible, this is very serious.) RL.



dawntreader -> RE: Need Input Please (5/14/2007 2:21:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

I disagree with you. It's not because I don't mollycoddle the people I disagree with, and act hypocritically so to keep the comfortable social consensus going, that I am a troll.
Thank you for the insult though, hmpf.

kittenSol,
i did not insult you, i commended you on your honesty, But by definition, and we know how everyone here loves "labels", you are a troll. " a troll is someone who intentionally posts derogatory or otherwise inflammatory messages about sensitive topics in an established online community such as an online discussion forum to bait users into responding." per dictionary.com. it appears this was your intent when you made the following comment:
quote:

 quote:
ORIGINAL: kittinSol
And purely because I'm the local agent provocateur I would LOVE to see this posted on the Gor bored... forgive me, board, just to sit back and enjoy the flames ;-) 
  

quote:


An 'agent provocateur' is a good element, it isn't necessarily about riling people up, but it does get the blood going.

An agent provocateur is rarely a good thing but does have value when used by law enforcement  to catch criminals and gangs breaking the law - for example a sting operation. Otherwise, it is a term for someone who like to stir up an arguement for the sake of an arguement, plain and simple - it has nothing to do with the absence of mollycoddling and acting nonhypocritical...infact those words are nowhere in the definition of the word. If you do not feel the internationally recognised definition of the word describes you, then perhaps another word ( self-title ) would be better suited so that we don't get the wrong impression of your intentions.
 
 Please don't confuse this post with judging you, it is not - you can be an agent provocateur all you want and it realy doesn't bother me...i just wanted to make sure you were aware of what the word actually implied here on the internet...and it implies troll.
quote:

Like a good whipping. Fancy one?
Thanks, but i will pass :-)
 
*To the OP: i do apologize for hijacking this thread. You have recieved some good advice and i personally wish you the best in your situation~



kittinSol -> RE: Need Input Please (5/14/2007 2:26:50 PM)

You're an earnest person, dawn, it shows. I'm not. I'm a sarcastic, ironic, horrible person who enjoys having a laugh.

Yep.

Oh, by the way, if you really want to know what agent provocateur TROLLY is (sorry, trully), here it goes:

https://www.agentprovocateur.com/new_ranges.php?isource=MOB4

Yes, it's a wonderfully sexy brand of English lingerie. Enjoy, everyone.



robertolapiedra -> RE: Need Input Please (5/14/2007 2:36:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

I disagree with you. It's not because I don't mollycoddle the people I disagree with, and act hypocritically so to keep the comfortable social consensus going, that I am a troll.

Thank you for the insult though, hmpf.

An 'agent provocateur' is a good element, it isn't necessarily about riling people up, but it does get the blood going. Like a good whipping. Fancy one?

[;)]


Agent provocateur is french for shit stirrer. French is 'my' language, I know! Devil's advocate is probably what you have to be in order to get away from the reputation of being a shit stirrer. It is still shit stirring but whith a positive 'objective in mind' (it has to do with defending an impopular view in the hope of distilling a more objective consensus by having a better balance between arguments, pros and cons.).

The difference  between agent provocateur and devil's advocate: one stinks and the latter stinks for a reason.

What you are saying is that you are defending an impopular view, that is 'your' view. You are not a shit stirrer and 'the stench is in the nose of  the sniffer' (?...!!) If you are implying that a minority view has the right to be defended, well it should be. This is not being an agent provocateur nor a devil's advocate even if one may still reproch you having a 'provocative' point of view and wonder about your motivation.

As for the wipping? Now that's unfair! that is called teasing. I object to winning arguments in this 'provocative' way as one could very easily forget what the hell he/she was arguing about. RL.

PS: You bad!





kittinSol -> RE: Need Input Please (5/14/2007 2:40:10 PM)

Ah ouais? Tu parles francais, Piedro? (Pardon, je n'arrive pas a localiser la cedille sur ce clavier - ni les autres accents d'ailleurs).

It's true, I stir up shit, mea culpa. But a post from someody that's been abused by yet another Gor got my blood boiling. I do believe in certain things, you know.

Ben, salut, et bonne journee.

PS: oh, and I stand corrected at your beautiful semantic analysis of the expressions 'devil's advocate' and 'agent provocateur'. I like to learn :-)  Thank you kind Sir for your input.

PPS: I am bad... sowwwy.



dawntreader -> RE: Need Input Please (5/14/2007 2:50:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol


https://www.agentprovocateur.com/new_ranges.php?isource=MOB4



Now THAT is a website worthy of a bookmark[;)]



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