RE: Fine Dining vs. Amateur Diners

RE: Fine Dining vs. Amateur Diners (Full Version)

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farglebargle -> RE: Fine Dining vs. Amateur Diners (5/14/2007 7:17:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood Nah, that's too easy of an equation. As a server, I feel a lot of personal responsibility to take care of my tables as best as I can. I know the menu inside and out, have tried over half of the wine list (hard research, I tell ya!), and have worked to literally be a professional at what I do, even though it's not a career for me. There's so much that can go wrong during a shift, and it's not always something that anyone from the owner on down has control over. Well, when discussing real dining, those are my expectations. The Maitre d MUST take the slightest failure of their staff as HIS OWN PERSONAL FAILURE. The owner MUST feel the same way. It's about PRIDE. YOU have plenty, so it's not an issue. We say at our offices, "If one of our staff fails, it is because WE failed to give them what they needed." ( Sometimes they need to be shown the door ).

GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Fine Dining vs. Amateur Diners (5/14/2007 7:25:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood Nah, that's too easy of an equation. As a server, I feel a lot of personal responsibility to take care of my tables as best as I can. I know the menu inside and out, have tried over half of the wine list (hard research, I tell ya!), and have worked to literally be a professional at what I do, even though it's not a career for me. There's so much that can go wrong during a shift, and it's not always something that anyone from the owner on down has control over. Not too many take the pride and the care you do, dear Lady! When My older daughter was working at one the nice restaurants, they had a monthly meeting wherein they did a little wine tasting and learned about the bar so they could discuss somewhat knowledgably with their tables if a need arose as to a recommendation. Of course they were all, also, personally acquanited with the menu items. When I was a Hostess at one time years ago, (after I was a waitress a few years before that) I made it a point to taste every dish on the menu so I had a working knowedge of what was coming out of the kitchen.

popeye1250 -> RE: Fine Dining vs. Amateur Diners (5/14/2007 7:40:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood quote: Oh, I was wondering, how many tables does a Server usually have? It depends. I worked at a bar where I had a 10 table section - truly guerilla waitressing. Drop and run LOL but it was a bar so they weren't expecting a higher level of service. At places where they do assigned stations, it's more typically 4-5 tables. If you're somewhere that does "ups" where your tables could potentially be all over the place, it can get really hectic if you have more than 3 or 4 tables, just because of the real estate you have to cover - good hosts/managers will "cluster" your tables in one general area. Sucky ones will put you in the weeds by giving you tables in all 4 corners of the restaurant. Oh, and you guys have to tip the bar for drinks too? I know Servers tip the bussers in a real busy restaurant. And, we're usually in and out within an hour. Some people sit there for two hours? I know they do in Italian restaurants with 8-10 courses in Boston or New York.

farglebargle -> RE: Fine Dining vs. Amateur Diners (5/14/2007 7:42:29 PM)
When we're planning for pre-show dinner, we schedule 2 1/2 hours.

MsSonnetMarwood -> RE: Fine Dining vs. Amateur Diners (5/14/2007 8:06:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Oh, and you guys have to tip the bar for drinks too? The normal tip out is 10% - 20% of a server's overall tips to the buser, and 5% - 10% to the bartender. The exact amount will depend on the specific restaurant policy, and servers are required to tip out that amount regardless of how many drinks they've sold. Some restaurants will have servers tip out based on sales, not tips. Some places will also require tipping out the hostess, and if there's a food runner or back waiter (someone who just brings the food to your tables when it's ready) then they get a piece of the pie as well. So basically, if a customer tips less than 15%, the server ends up paying too much taxes on that tip, because it's not going to be the 10-12% after tipping out that's mandatory to pay taxes on. Factor in: rarely do servers have any kind of health benefits, sick days, paid vacations, retirement funds. Drug and alcohol abuse are common and stress levels are high, on top of it being physcially demanding. It's a job that doesn't get a lot of respect from people in general. To be fair, most servers in better restaurants are making decent money overall. It's not meant to be a career for the most part, IMHO, but it's a great job when you need to max out your earnings while working a part time job. Good waiters at busy restaurants getting full time hours can make $40,000 - $60,000 a year comfortably.

popeye1250 -> RE: Fine Dining vs. Amateur Diners (5/14/2007 8:27:09 PM)
Oh, ok that clears up a lot of things. I didn't realize that there was so much "tipping out." Years ago I worked security in a major casino in Reno,Nevada and except for us and the "backhouse" everyone worked on tips or "comps" as they call it out there. Some of the real pretty cocktail waitresses could make $500-$1,000 per night in comps for running drinks to the gambling tables. And the dealers would "pool" their tips and split up at the end of the week. I don't know what they made but they all drove nice cars. Even the Valet parking people could make $1,000 per week.

gooddogbenji -> RE: Fine Dining vs. Amateur Diners (5/14/2007 8:32:52 PM)
2 quick comments from a guy who's worked at the best in Switzerland and a guy who's eaten at the best in New York: A tip is always a thank you for good service, regardless of the amount. If you choose to be insulted about a 12% tip, that's your problem. I consider it (with very few exceptions) a thank you for decent service. Coming from a 20% server and 25% bartender. It is a restaurant's job to make guests happy. While a bit of understanding is great, guests are paying the same amount, if not more, to come to this restaurant on a day that everyone knows is the busiest day of the year. If management doesn't have this under control, they need to reduce the number of resos taken. End of story. That having been said, if you walk into a quiet restaurant on a sleepy Monday night, and it's overrun, then a lot more compassion is in order. It all comes down to preparing and managing costs. Sorry if this has been said. Yours, benji

SDFemDom4cuck -> RE: Fine Dining vs. Amateur Diners (5/14/2007 8:50:38 PM)
quote: If I am paying for dinner with a credit card, I round up from 15% to the next clear amount (I hate doing account math with $128.91, I make it $130.00 to keep it clear) and then leave some cash on the table. The server is forced to pay income tax on 15% or the amount on the credit card receipt, whichever is greater, and I hate forcing people to pay taxes on money they did not receive or on an overtip. Since the credit card receipt has 15%, I figure the cash is an extra bit of a nice thing to do. While thoughtful, unfortunately we pay taxes on both the credit card tip (automatic) and the cash tips as well. At the end of the night an accounting of our daily ticket sales total comes up and we are required by law to claim 11% of those sales, whether we make it or not. At my restaurant you cannot clock out via the system until your tips have been claimed and a print out has been confirmed. Fortunately wonderful people like you that tip over 15% make up for the cheap ones that either stiff completely on a tip or leave 10% or less.

SDFemDom4cuck -> RE: Fine Dining vs. Amateur Diners (5/14/2007 9:02:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Good and very interesting post! You must get some real jerks sometimes. Good thing I was never a "Server"; I'd end up giving them a smack and "escorting" them out the front or back door. "Go someplace else, we're all out of food!" I always try to make the server feel comfortable by telling them my name and the people I'm with as well after they introduce themselves. And maybe a joke or something to put them at ease. And, once in a while I like to go to a nicer place and dress up a bit although around this area everything is pretty much "beach informal." And this week is "Bike Week" here so everything is "Biker informal"! I always tip 20% for good service, 25% for "great" service. Oh, I was wondering, how many tables does a Server usually have? Popeye, How many tables a server has can depend on the day and shift. Personally I usually have an 8 - 10 table section. I know some similar places limit it to 4 or 5 tables per section. Alot depends on the turn over times. Upscale dining usually means a leisurely dinner and 1.5 to 2 hrs is usually blocked out for each table. So say someone has 5 tables with a 2hr service they're runing 20 tables a night (I've done as many as 40 in an 8 hour shift) with say an average 4 top table that's 80 services. I routinely take on the larger parties that nobody ever wants as well. When I worked the franchise 24 hour place it was 2 servers and a cook to over the entire place over night.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Fine Dining vs. Amateur Diners (5/14/2007 9:04:50 PM)
Well in my case it was at a Baby Acapulco's which I've been to a few times before and always gotten very good service before and always excellent food. They are also one of the most well known chains in Austin for their food, margaritas, and great atmosphere. So I don't think one dinner with one dorky waiter is enough for me to start haranguing about how sucky the whole restaurant must be.

SDFemDom4cuck -> RE: Fine Dining vs. Amateur Diners (5/14/2007 9:07:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood Nah, that's too easy of an equation. As a server, I feel a lot of personal responsibility to take care of my tables as best as I can. I know the menu inside and out, have tried over half of the wine list (hard research, I tell ya!), and have worked to literally be a professional at what I do, even though it's not a career for me. There's so much that can go wrong during a shift, and it's not always something that anyone from the owner on down has control over. I agree with you on that one. I treat my diners the way I want to be treated when I go out to eat. Which is damned good. We were required to do a tasting of everything on the menu prior to going on the floor to serve, be knowledgeable about wine pairings and be able to explain each dish and how it's prepared. All before we ever took our first table. I do look it as being a professional as well. It isn't a career but I'm very good at it and it's paying my way through school and perhaps a little longer so I can pay off the loans after I graduate.

SDFemDom4cuck -> RE: Fine Dining vs. Amateur Diners (5/14/2007 9:16:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross Well in my case it was at a Baby Acapulco's which I've been to a few times before and always gotten very good service before and always excellent food. They are also one of the most well known chains in Austin for their food, margaritas, and great atmosphere. So I don't think one dinner with one dorky waiter is enough for me to start haranguing about how sucky the whole restaurant must be. That's a great attitude to have. Really, I don't know how many people allow one off night or one bad server (and there are both, I'm not saying there aren't) to rule out ever going to the restaurant again. You've been there before and know you've had great service and an enjoyable dinner. Alot of times the diners have no idea what's going on behind the scenes. For example...Sunday we had 3 people call out sick including the hostess at the last minute. Of course being Mother's day everyone not on schedule had other plans or were out of town. Luckily we have a great manager that worked his way up from a busboy over 8 years and he was right in there with us waiting tables, schlepping drinks and bussing tables. It was awesome!

farglebargle -> RE: Fine Dining vs. Amateur Diners (5/14/2007 9:20:58 PM)
quote: For example...Sunday we had 3 people call out sick including the hostess at the last minute. We would call them ex-employees. Early is on-time. On-time is late. Late is not showing up at all.

DomKen -> RE: Fine Dining vs. Amateur Diners (5/14/2007 9:29:08 PM)
I worked my way through college in restaurants. First as a line cook then after a while I started tending bar and working the odd shifts as a server. This was all in white tablecloth places. The guys who ordered medium rare but turns out they really wanted it hot and brown all the way through and then complain about it being dry. The folks who ordered something without knowing what it was. Percebes are barnacles tasty but not for the faint at heart and not for those with shellfish allegies. When you order a Carbernet Sauvignon with a chicken dish don't blame the server or sommelier who warned you but you ignored. For the love of god, don't tell a server any restaurant humor you've heard. Likely enough they've heard at least once that day already. That applies equally to smart assed replies to the servers greeting. I was required to say "Good evening, I'm Ken and I'll be your server tonight" but no one is making you say "I'm dumbass and I'll be you customer"! Do not touch servers while they're trying to work. Even if the server flirted with you pinching her rear isn't acceptable. If you think he or she is the love of your life leave a big tip and write a personal note with your phone number at the very least you'll give the serve staff a good laugh at the end of the night and who knows. Do you really want to make your mother feel special? Cook her dinner yourself on Mother's Day and take her out to dinner some other weekend where you can get into her favorite place and service and food quality will be better. Finally 15%? Are you kidding? If the tab is over 50 bucks lay down 20% and if it is a high end place aim for more like 25 or 30% because the server is sharing tips with the bar, sommelier, bussers, expediters and likely enough the Maitre'd.

farglebargle -> RE: Fine Dining vs. Amateur Diners (5/14/2007 9:33:08 PM)
And I think that's why I'm super-critical of lacking Maitre'd, if you're going to have your hand out to the people you work with, you damn well better have their back in a crunch. Too fucking busy to make sure the expediters are expediting and the bussers are busing? Damn Prima Donnas. All the fucking time, it's with the damn Prima-Donnas...

Sinergy -> RE: Fine Dining vs. Amateur Diners (5/14/2007 9:37:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: For example...Sunday we had 3 people call out sick including the hostess at the last minute. We would call them ex-employees. Early is on-time. On-time is late. Late is not showing up at all. Show up late on the docks, the boss either fires your ass or calls a replacement. The ship gets started being unloaded at 8. If you are not there to do your job, the boss gets somebody else to come do it. I have had people I was at lunch with wonder why I spent so much time looking at the clock. While I have had jobs where I could take 3 hour lunches with lots and lots of pitchers of beer, and have any number of jobs where I get 3 hour lunches on the docks, I understand that it is not up to me. Sinergy

Sinergy -> RE: Fine Dining vs. Amateur Diners (5/14/2007 9:40:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen I worked my way through college in restaurants. First as a line cook then after a while I started tending bar and working the odd shifts as a server. This was all in white tablecloth places. The guys who ordered medium rare but turns out they really wanted it hot and brown all the way through and then complain about it being dry. The folks who ordered something without knowing what it was. Percebes are barnacles tasty but not for the faint at heart and not for those with shellfish allegies. When you order a Carbernet Sauvignon with a chicken dish don't blame the server or sommelier who warned you but you ignored. For the love of god, don't tell a server any restaurant humor you've heard. Likely enough they've heard at least once that day already. That applies equally to smart assed replies to the servers greeting. I was required to say "Good evening, I'm Ken and I'll be your server tonight" but no one is making you say "I'm dumbass and I'll be you customer"! Do not touch servers while they're trying to work. Even if the server flirted with you pinching her rear isn't acceptable. If you think he or she is the love of your life leave a big tip and write a personal note with your phone number at the very least you'll give the serve staff a good laugh at the end of the night and who knows. Do you really want to make your mother feel special? Cook her dinner yourself on Mother's Day and take her out to dinner some other weekend where you can get into her favorite place and service and food quality will be better. Finally 15%? Are you kidding? If the tab is over 50 bucks lay down 20% and if it is a high end place aim for more like 25 or 30% because the server is sharing tips with the bar, sommelier, bussers, expediters and likely enough the Maitre'd. I have a professional chef friend who tells me most of the things I have cooked for him are better than the stuff he cooks. Fucking amateurs. Even if I have known him since Kindergarten and consider him one of those friends that if he called me from Tijuana and asked for lawyers, guns, and money, I would be there. He still needs to spend more time in cooking school. I dont like it when people give me shit at work, the last thing on the planet you will find me doing is giving them shit at their job. Just me, etc. Sinergy

SDFemDom4cuck -> RE: Fine Dining vs. Amateur Diners (5/14/2007 10:05:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: For example...Sunday we had 3 people call out sick including the hostess at the last minute. We would call them ex-employees. Early is on-time. On-time is late. Late is not showing up at all. Trust me...they are. Wasn't it Ford that said... Being on time means you're already 15 minutes late? Or something to that effect?

bigskycountry -> RE: Fine Dining vs. Amateur Diners (5/15/2007 12:21:07 AM)
As an avid new york city diner, I am around servers quite a bit. My father owned and was head chef at an upscale restaurant in a resort town in montana when i was gowing up and my mother was one of the servers. He has imparted quite a bit of knowledge about food quality and what to expect when you ask for a certain item. My mother has let me know why certain things may happen and what to look for in order to find out what to say to the manager when things are unsatisfactory. I also alternated for 2 years as soundguy at both a comedy club and a jazz/dinner club. Got the "fly-on-the-wall" experience, heard it coming in both ears from both sides of the counter. First off, I will list my largest and most pervasive gripe about dining out: steak preperation. I know what blood-rare is and i know what rare is. I also know what my favorite looks like: pittsburgh blue/black and blue. Do not say "ok" and proceed to allow the chef to nod and prepare me a steak that is merely rare, it insults both of you. Your chef should know whether or not the grill the establishment furnished him is capapble (has enough btu output) to prepare this kind of steak properly. I will digress for a moment and say that I never expect or ask for this prep outside of any place that has more than four steak cuts offered and has the term "dry-aged" or better on their menu (I also sneek a peek at another diner's steak to check the fat coloration to see if I'm eating grass or grain fed beef, which speaks to integrity). The chef may know what it is and how to make it, but that does not mean it is possible to make with the gear in the kitchen. I will likely enjoy it, quite a bit too, but that is why I left an 18% tip and am writing out a quick note to the manager (I find seeking them out and having a conversation with them boorish and such actions would be an offense to my present company). i have actually begun to like dismissive or curt servers, provided my order is promptly delivered and within my liking. Guh...I can't stand being dragged to old chicago or applebee's and having the server horn in and perform and "be super-dooper friendly". I am not there to get to know you (hipper places and divey-yet-gourmet places get more lee-way, but do not sit down with us. White shirt places? There should be NO chit-chat.), I am there to enjoy my pre-selected company for the night. If my order is cold or taking a long time: I know it is likely not the fault of the server. If my order is incorrect: it is more the fault of the kitchen staff than the server, but the server should have caught it. Gotta keep the kitchen folks in check, ya know. If anyone in my party has an empty glass and the server has briskly walked by twice and not noticed nor made a mental note to acknowledge the table on their next pass: that lies wholly on the attention of the server. I know the job is boring and frustrating at times and that co-workers are the only thing that can keep one sane, but huddling up by the kitchen or service bar and chatting while there are empty drinks at tables will only get one in trouble with management when pointed out. If a server is at the bar or in back and I must get the attention of another server and point to my long empty glass of wine, the eye in the sky sees it. And over time such antics will get someone the crappy section ("Why aren't you out there upselling!?"). I will say though, I get a quiet chuckle when dining at a casual establishment and a smirky server says "Is everything to your liking?" RIGHT as i pull the fork from my mouth after taking a bite. I know you have to have fun sometimes. A few months ago I was at a mid-range restaurant for dinner with a handfull of old friends. We were sat, and thusly talking and looking at menus and prattling on amongst ourselves and our menus slipped away and we talked more and lifted our drinks and snacked and then we ate and talked and laughed and told stories and raised our glasses again and toasted and gushed over our desserts and chatted more until our last glasses stood with two sips left. Then the check came and "what should we leave for tip?" came up, it hashed out quickly that we had just had one of the best dining experiences in recent memory and had not once (to a person) concerned ourselves with our waitstaff. And we all left the largest tip any of us have ever not used multiplying the tax to figure out. ...Probably also helped that we were at a round table and not a booth...

popeye1250 -> RE: Fine Dining vs. Amateur Diners (5/15/2007 12:29:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Good and very interesting post! You must get some real jerks sometimes. Good thing I was never a "Server"; I'd end up giving them a smack and "escorting" them out the front or back door. "Go someplace else, we're all out of food!" I always try to make the server feel comfortable by telling them my name and the people I'm with as well after they introduce themselves. And maybe a joke or something to put them at ease. And, once in a while I like to go to a nicer place and dress up a bit although around this area everything is pretty much "beach informal." And this week is "Bike Week" here so everything is "Biker informal"! I always tip 20% for good service, 25% for "great" service. Oh, I was wondering, how many tables does a Server usually have? Popeye, How many tables a server has can depend on the day and shift. Personally I usually have an 8 - 10 table section. I know some similar places limit it to 4 or 5 tables per section. Alot depends on the turn over times. Upscale dining usually means a leisurely dinner and 1.5 to 2 hrs is usually blocked out for each table. So say someone has 5 tables with a 2hr service they're runing 20 tables a night (I've done as many as 40 in an 8 hour shift) with say an average 4 top table that's 80 services. I routinely take on the larger parties that nobody ever wants as well. When I worked the franchise 24 hour place it was 2 servers and a cook to over the entire place over night. Sdfem, wow, you really earn your money! Eighty services in an eight hour shift? Who are the best tippers as a group? Older people, young people, men, women? I like the line Steve Martin used in that movie "My Blue Heaven"; "You don't tip FBI Agents." "Sure you do!" Friends and me often go to "buffet style" restaurants here because they're cheap, local, and it's all you can eat and the food in a few of them is pretty good. The prices vary from $9 for the Chinese buffet to $22 for the seafood buffets. You get a Waitress but all she does is bring drinks and rolls and coffee after the meal if you want it. They don't do near as much work as the Servers in a nice sitdown place except they bus their own tables but I tip them well too. Early this past New Year's Eve I was at a place called "Ryan's" that's popular in the South and I had the Server that I mentioned in another thread, just out of college with a degree in Psychology who I had a few times before and enjoyed talking with. My bill was something like $11.50 for the buffet and the "bottomless coke" but I comped her $10 and wished her a happy new year. We're lucky here in Myrtle Beach, we have something like 3200 restaurants, anything you want! We have some really nice seafood places in Murrel's Inlet right on the marsh with the fishing boats out the back window. I've also eaten in the Marriott right on the beach but didn't care for it too much, too "Yuppie" for my liking, they have small portions, over-priced and serve those small red potatos that are always undercooked! "For desert we have a wonderful creme broulet for $15.95." "Comes with a free cup of coffee." I left there hungry! Then we have one of my favorites, "The Texas Roadhouse." They always have great steaks and ribs, kick-ass salads, peanut shells on the floor, and you always see the same waitresses there so I imagine they do very well as it's always busy there! And, you get some entertainment there too. They'll have 8-10 of the waitresses do the "Cotton Eye Joe" for a few minutes every hour or so. I usually give my server $10 to split up among the servers who danced as well. Not a lot but every bit helps. When I was young I worked in restaurants so I know a little about what it's like. I have a saying that I made up and that I like; "You have to take care of the people who take care of you." I like going out to eat! I might go out 2 or 3 times a week.

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