RE: Jerry Falwell dies

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thompsonx -> RE: Jerry Falwell dies (5/16/2007 2:53:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Perhaps he is projecting his final solution for liberals on to us? Your labeling me a Nazi now? Not that I really give a shit, except I think it's funny (especially in light of the context of this thread) Sanity: My best guess is that your posts label you much more clearly than anything anyone could say. thompson

thompsonx -> RE: Jerry Falwell dies (5/16/2007 3:11:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy I'm sorry but there is a huge undeniable difference between Falwell and Saddam .....Falwell never physically hurt anyone.... That may speak more directly to his lack of intestinal fortitude than anything else...at least sodamned insane had the balls to do a lot of his own killing. Nor did he ever come out and say that we should ever "kill" anyone....I disliked Falwell....He did not approve of homosexuality or the woman's movement and on and on and on. Since we live in the USA those things are legal so that makes him what? Some one who lives in my country but choose not to obey the laws of my country He was an intolerant, spiteful, and arrogant man. ...He would cite examples of God's revenge(natural disasters) as evidence, for us participating and allowing such sin to exist in our Country....He was an asshole....Hussein and binl laden are mega assholes....There is a commonality that they are both a-holes but I would take 500 Falwells over one Hussein....Hussein was a mass murderer...... Maybe yes maybe no all we "know" about him comes from sources with an agenda. And though I am not in favor of this war there is a huge undeniable difference in people wo have perished due to Hussein gassing them and those that have died fighting in a war no matter how unjust. Not everyone believes that there is a "undeniable" difference. Most of the dead were non combatants. To continually argue about that you are or are not a liberal is moot....People have formed their opinions of you due to your posts....I am definitely on the "lib" side on most issues it is clearly evident in my posts....Although if someone asked me, are you a Democrat? I would respond "I don't favor all of their postions but since there are only two viable parties in this Country and if I want my vote to count in any type of meaningful fashion ...Then yes, I am a Democrat." I think far to often you ramble off on to tangents that lack credibility...I don't like Bush....Can I make a comparison to him and Hussein or Hitler....Only by using some sort of weak ass analogy....Can I compare Hussein to Hitler....Now at least the analogy would have a little more factual basis. How so...please do compare them for us. You are a very smart person...I just think if someone wants to be taken seriously it is best not to take the approah of Sanity but of sanity....(Sorry brothah...couldn't help myself...lol)

thompsonx -> RE: Jerry Falwell dies (5/16/2007 3:30:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b Thompsonx said: quote: I will take that as a no. So much for your position on decorum. Nice try – but I’m still not biting. Don't worry about it your silence answers the question loud and clear. If you insist on quantifying evil on a scale then Bush would be located far below Hitler, and so would Jerry Fawell. The only people who’d be on the top level with Hitler would be Stalin (in terms of numbers killed, it is Stalin, not Hitler, It would appear that you are the one interested in quantifying. That being the case perhaps you might share with us how you came to this conclusion? Just were do you derive your numbers. who actually gets the very top spot as the world's number one mass murderer), Mao, and Pol Pot. Saddam gets an "honorable" mention for trying so hard. Again, real numbers and some sort of validation....unless I missed the disclaimer that this is nothing but opinion. Your next tier down would have your Castros Who has Castro Murdered? and your Pinochets and the like.

Marc2b -> RE: Jerry Falwell dies (5/17/2007 7:16:42 AM)
quote: I QUALIFIED the evil, not QUANTIFIED. Depriving someone of an unalienable right is, like torture and rape, inherently evil. Among CIVILIZED PEOPLE, There IS NOT JUSTIFICATION FOR IT. Insane Beasts, and other Lower Animals would disagree. It strikes me that you and Jerry Falwell have something very much in common – you are both moral absolutists. Man X steals $500.00 from a billionaire. Man Y steals $500,000.00 from a charity that feeds hungry children. Who has committed the greater act of evil? Moral absolutists would say neither. Both are stealing. Moral relativists would say man Y has clearly performed the greater act of evil. The billionaire probably won’t even notice his missing $500.00 but those children will definitely notice their rumbling tummy’s. The problem is: where do we draw the line between moral absolutism and moral relativism? Either extreme is unproductive and can be immoral in and of itself. Moral absolutism demands that both man X and man Y go to prison for stealing but moral relativism may give a pass to man X, even though he is a thief and if he isn’t punished for his actions may feel he has leave to continue stealing (i.e. victimizing others). Don’t we have a moral imperative to stop him? Most of us find our own middle ground, based upon our own fears and prejudices (failing to comprehend that we are engaging in similar behavior as our ideological opponents), we excoriate our enemies and give a pass to our compatriots. Will the same people who vilify Falwell upon his death also vilify Farakhan when he kicks the bucket? Bottom line: Jerry Falwell may have been a blowhard on a pulpit but he hardly ranks up there in Hitler territory. Something about ragging on the guy upon his death just strikes me as unsavory. It is not a matter of free speech, it is a matter of civility and decorum. There will be plenty of time for his supporters and his opponents to argue about his legacy later – But let’s at least wait until the body is buried.

domiguy -> RE: Jerry Falwell dies (5/17/2007 7:46:38 AM)
Why wait? People die every day. We place no sanctity to life...Did he wait as the corpses of the 9-11 victims were being buried? No, he took the opportunity to blame their deaths on the very groups he despised...Did he wait and think about the victims and the families that were battling and dealing with the impact of AIDS....No! He claimed "AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals." So why wait?...Perhaps this will send a message to other hate mongers that their live will be critiqued at their passing by those whom are left behind and if you don't care to have people dancing on your grave then maybe you might want to change the way you live your life and the hatefull words you spew.... starting today.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Jerry Falwell dies (5/17/2007 8:23:03 AM)
I have no emotions and no tears to shed for the death Dr. Falwell. If anything he was a good caricature reference anytime you needed to point out the ridiculousness of the religious right wing. I mean do you think he, or his movement, gained credibility pointing to the purple telly tubbie as a "threat"? His attacks against homosexuality brought the issue to the forefront. Its better to have open debate and have a clear position to argue against, especially one so obviously prejudicial like Dr. Falwell's. He made the idea of 'god' an issue - used by the homosexual community to point out the obvious - "GOD MADE ME!" Being in NYC for 9/11 his use of the attack to exploit his agenda was no different than any of the others who came to shill. He held no elected office. He had no mandate. His "moral majority" only existed in the minds of his supporters; apparently a threat to his detractors. Relish in his death if it brings you joy. Is your life any different, better/worse, than is was before? He was meaningful and influential only to those too weak, or lacking the ability to have personal morals and morality. When you need to have a negative image to rationalize that you are "better", you obviously don't have the confidence to stand behind your own convictions. He was a public figure who died. No less an adversary than Larry Flint, who argued with him right up to the Supreme Court, respected his integrity, having nothing but disagreement with anything he represented. They appeared together for quite a few college "debates". As Larry said; "Falwell knew what I was selling, and I knew what he was selling." Obviously its not good enough for many here. I wonder how many who wish him to be in "hell" in other discussions argued against hell's existence? No matter, they now feel 'good'. The welcome death. I would hope they have more ability to debate the living than seeing 'success' in death. Maybe they know their limitations better than me.

domiguy -> RE: Jerry Falwell dies (5/17/2007 9:00:19 AM)
Falwell had little or less impact on my life then a bug hitting my windshield....But I believe there lies some ignorance to suggest that his words were meaningless to thousands of others who believe that AIDS was brought upon homosexuals as a form of revenge....How are these people going to engage in a meaningful debate? You give them way too much credit....There are too many who are incapable of conducting a debate...You know...."The Zroooooom crowd." They hear his words and they are taken as gospel...They don't have the ability to rationalize that there might not be truth in his words....I don't mourn his passing, I think he caused many needless pain....People who bought into Falwell would have no problem discriminating against the people that he opposed....So yes, he might have brought about debate...But what if he would have toned down his rhetoric and instead of exclusion and hatred it was one of acceptance and compassion. I might be wrong, maybe no one took him seriously, but I think it is niave to believe that his words did not carry power and that people formulated not only their beliefs around 'those" words but their actions as well. I have not the slightest inkling about Heaven or Hell....But wouldn't it be nice if the next "Falwell" could see the response to his death and come to terms with the possibilities that maybe there is a better approach.

farglebargle -> RE: Jerry Falwell dies (5/17/2007 9:05:54 AM)
quote: It strikes me that you and Jerry Falwell have something very much in common – you are both moral absolutists. When it comes to RAPE AND TORTURE? You bet I'm an absolutist. But Jerry Falwell was ALL FOR Raping and Torturing. EVIL. Period.

farglebargle -> RE: Jerry Falwell dies (5/17/2007 9:07:40 AM)
quote: Did he wait as the corpses of the 9-11 victims were being buried? Why should he? Once they found the Vault, RUDY didn't give a shit about the 9/11 victims remains OR THE REMAINS OF THE FIREFIGHTERS!!!! THEY are buried in a landfill in Staten Island. Yup. Rudy caused 9/11 victims remains to be buried in a Landfill.

Marc2b -> RE: Jerry Falwell dies (5/17/2007 10:00:25 AM)
quote: Don't worry about it your silence answers the question loud and clear. But is that "answer" accurate? Or are you hearing what you want to hear in order to bolster preconceive notions? quote: It would appear that you are the one interested in quantifying. That being the case perhaps you might share with us how you came to this conclusion? Just were do you derive your numbers. quote: Again, real numbers and some sort of validation....unless I missed the disclaimer that this is nothing but opinion. Oh please! These facts are easily assessable from any number of a variety of sources. There are sights all over the Internet, history books galore, scholarly articles. Sure, there are some historians who put Mao, and not Stalin, on the "greatest mass murderer in human history" pedestal, but only willful blindness could account for questioning whether or not these men rank amongst humanity’s greatest killers. quote: Who has Castro Murdered? Are you fucking kidding me? Talk about willful blindness.

Marc2b -> RE: Jerry Falwell dies (5/17/2007 10:16:39 AM)
quote: Why wait? People die every day. We place no sanctity to life...Did he wait as the corpses of the 9-11 victims were being buried? No, he took the opportunity to blame their deaths on the very groups he despised...Did he wait and think about the victims and the families that were battling and dealing with the impact of AIDS....No! He claimed "AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals." So why wait?... Perhaps this will send a message to other hate mongers that their live will be critiqued at their passing by those whom are left behind and if you don't care to have people dancing on your grave then maybe you might want to change the way you live your life and the hatefull words you spew.... starting today. I said it before and I’ll say it again, decorum is for one’s own sake, not the other guy’s. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Responding to hate with more hate will get us nowhere.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Jerry Falwell dies (5/17/2007 10:48:57 AM)
quote: They hear his words and they are taken as gospel...They don't have the ability to rationalize that there might not be truth in his words....I don't mourn his passing, I think he caused many needless pain....People who bought into Falwell would have no problem discriminating against the people that he opposed....So yes, he might have brought about debate...But what if he would have toned down his rhetoric and instead of exclusion and hatred it was one of acceptance and compassion. Is there any difference on the side of opposition? Sheep follow. There are a very large number of sheep incapable of discriminating truth on both sides. There is no less discrimination, and no less prejudice on either side. I'll cite this thread as proof. If he "toned down" his rhetoric he would have been one voice among many. Similar to if Mr. Farrakhan toned down his among his constituency of followers. quote: I might be wrong, maybe no one took him seriously, but I think it is niave to believe that his words did not carry power and that people formulated not only their beliefs around 'those" words but their actions as well. I don't believe I represented that "no one took him seriously". If so it wasn't my intent. I said that people took him seriously when it served their agenda. Republican's used him, and stood beside him to garner votes from the people who took him seriously. Again, any different than a Democrat standing beside Farrakhan? When you want a large group of sheep to follow you bring in other shepards with their own flocks. Actions however require complicity of a majority. The 'moral majority' is/was only allowed to implement policy when the majority of people surrendered that power to them. It wasn't Janet Jackson's nipple that implemented the enforcement of censorship, it was the corporate networks abdicating their ability to change the policy by making the business decision to pay the fine versus fight the fight in the courts. quote: I have not the slightest inkling about Heaven or Hell....But wouldn't it be nice if the next "Falwell" could see the response to his death and come to terms with the possibilities that maybe there is a better approach. Why hope for such an impossible goal? The constituent sheep are no less enthusiastic about him today than they were before he died. The very outcry from the sources who Dr. Falwell attacked prove him "right" in the collective mind of his flock. It's why I pointed out the reaction of Mr. Flint. He evaluated Dr. Falwell's job correctly, respected it, countered it, and published the hypocrisy of it. At his death, Mr. Flint acknowledged his passing, their disagreement, and sent sympathy to his family. What better way to diffuse the opposition than to provide no example for them to point and say; "I told you so!"?

subjected2006 -> RE: Jerry Falwell dies (5/17/2007 11:03:27 AM)
so? He was an awful awful judgemental man..Who will be remembered for the way he "smited"(is that a word") people ..he spoke up for the zealots that had no voice. There are many like him..always will be. Black or white..the way to deal with these extremists is to make sure they don't get into a position of power. You don't do that by sitting on your thumbs. You got something to say? Simply find someone in power who can say it for you and then vote. Right? Is anyone here taken aback a bit by the hatred written about how they are glad he's dead? Wow. Woweeee. I dont like hearing that about anyone. Frankly..I am a bit disturbed by this. And before the freedom of speech police swoop in.. I just think we get so "immune" to hateful words we throw them around sometimes without thinking about it. Just sayin'..I could be wrong. Once. LOL

mnottertail -> RE: Jerry Falwell dies (5/17/2007 11:04:34 AM)
I smite, you smite---- We done smote. The Rev.

Marc2b -> RE: Jerry Falwell dies (5/17/2007 1:50:39 PM)
I smite you... you smite me... we're the human family... with a knick-knack paddy-whack...

orfunboi -> RE: Jerry Falwell dies (5/17/2007 1:54:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle No-one mourns a Rat. I'm sure his family would not agree. I'm not a fan of his, at all, but I wish death on no one. He wished it on enough people, i find it hard to feel any kind of sadness at this news...

orfunboi -> RE: Jerry Falwell dies (5/17/2007 1:57:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy Yes Gore lives in a big house. There is no comparison between Falwell and Gore. They are both brain dead.....

GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Jerry Falwell dies (5/17/2007 2:01:36 PM)
Applauding Marc2b and Mercnbeth...very nicely said, to both of you!

orfunboi -> RE: Jerry Falwell dies (5/17/2007 2:01:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 Typical of the far left. Celebrates death. First late term and partial-birth abortion, then physician-assisted suicide, then celebrate the death of those you disagree with. Seems like the far right celebrates death too. Or didn't you hear about the statue that was proposed for Matthew Shepard? The plaque was to read "On this day, Matthew Shepard entered the gates of Hell" That celebrates life so much... Yes, another monster who uses the name of Christ to spread hate and anger. Sorry, but i doubt i will feel any sadness when i hear Phelps is gone either. My only surprise is no one has killed him yet.

orfunboi -> RE: Jerry Falwell dies (5/17/2007 2:13:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy Falwell never physically hurt anyone....Nor did he ever come out and say that we should ever "kill" anyone.... No, he simply promoted hatred towards people, told them God hated fags and raised them to believe if you did it in the name of Christ, it was alright, and people like Mathew Shepard paid the price.

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