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RE: Start, stop and maybe start again?? - 5/15/2007 9:19:42 PM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline 		I to was a victom of sexual abuse that started in my childhood but lasted far into my adult years I became so used to it it seemed normal to have NO controll but when one feels they have no controll how can they give that controll to another, you cant give something you dont feel you have. She feels the need to scramble for whatever controll she can and when she feels you want to take it from her again she gets scared, Trust me I know that feeling. She has to want to give you that controll and in order for her to want to give it she has to feel she has it to give. The only way to ever get her to really submit to you (if that is even a real possability it may not be) you have to first help her feel like she has some controll over her own self her own life. Ones you have helped you with that not only will she trust you more for it she will be more willing to hand the controll you helped you get over to you. I hope that makes sence!

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to robertolapiedra)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Start, stop and maybe start again?? - 5/15/2007 10:26:25 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Steve,

I know it seems like I am riding your case but believe me I am not.  I do my best to support relationships even if it means losing someone I love and in your case 23 years isn't something to lightly toss aside.

M/s isn't going to save you.  The ONLY thing that is going to save you to is to understand 
quote:

she will constantly try to  manipulate her way out of it
and the minute she does that to call her on it.  Not in a "I caught you" sort of way but in a loving and caring sort of way.   Make it clear to her you love her no matter what her choice but that kneeling (or whatever act) is what you desire your submissive to do but your vanilla wife is welcome to sit beside you while you watch tv.

You want to make sure she is safe to act out but also quite clear that there is only ONE path to submitting to you and that is the path YOU have laid out.  Just like an unruly child, you always make sure they feel love and that you object to the act, not them.  Make it clear they won't get their way no matter how big the tantrum, be calm and loving.

You can't be M/s  until you master her and she chooses to be your slave.  You cannot master her by force, you need to learn to let that manipulation wash over you AND point it out to her like rubbing a dog's nose in their shit and throwing them out, but nicer.  THIS is training.  You need to retrain her that manipulation will NOT result in her getting what she wants from you.  You need to retrain her that you WILL take care of her wants and needs but ONLY if she stops manipulating you.  YOU need to stop reacting to her manipulations.  Consistency in response and firm boundaries are your friend.

You are lucky, you live together and this will be a grueling process, trying to deal with this much stuff  online or long distance doesn't often work. 

(in reply to ICGsteve)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Start, stop and maybe start again?? - 5/15/2007 10:51:04 PM   
robertolapiedra


Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

I to was a victom of sexual abuse that started in my childhood but lasted far into my adult years I became so used to it it seemed normal to have NO controll but when one feels they have no controll how can they give that controll to another, you cant give something you dont feel you have. She feels the need to scramble for whatever controll she can and when she feels you want to take it from her again she gets scared, Trust me I know that feeling. She has to want to give you that controll and in order for her to want to give it she has to feel she has it to give. The only way to ever get her to really submit to you (if that is even a real possability it may not be) you have to first help her feel like she has some controll over her own self her own life. Ones you have helped you with that not only will she trust you more for it she will be more willing to hand the controll you helped you get over to you. I hope that makes sence!

Magik's slave


Hello MagiksSlave. Makes perfect sense. The simple dynamic is this. If I put an end to the power exchange. You have proof (reality) that you possess your power, and I do not. After, it is much easier to rebuilt trust as the dom has 'proven' by ceasing the D/s what he wants: Not the 'submission' but the submissive consenting clearly, openly and within her bounderies. In this environnment trust will grow and no other. Trust is not 'faith'. Trust cannot be blinded. RL.

(in reply to MagiksSlave)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Start, stop and maybe start again?? - 5/16/2007 12:00:55 AM   
teleri


Posts: 3
Joined: 5/15/2007
Status: offline 		I am also a sub who underwent extreme sexual abuse as a kid. I read this entire thread, and noticed a lot of doms who seemed to feel that the typical definitions apply to such a survivor. In doing so you are missing the point.

In all likelyhood, this sub believes that her desire to submit is rooted in the abuse. I know I do. This is the real reason behind the on again/off again behavior. You get ok with it, but then something you do with your Master triggers a memory and the tenuous comfort you have found dissapates. I can't tell from what you say whether you any act or failure to act on your part abrogated that trust. It could be that she is projecting on you her reactions to other events. You sound a little bewildered, so I suspect it is the latter.

To all those well-meaning respondents here who recommended therapy, yes it is important. But it only goes so far. In the end, for the survivor, it becomes a matter of choice: can I live with these memories and go on with my life, or not? Can I trust anyone, or am I just emotionally frigid? These types of self-questions are very difficult to share with anyone, even a spouse of many years.

The process of self-recovery when such memories rise up to bite us in the ass isn't easy, It requires ruthless self-honesty and can take years to come to terms with. Most often, for me, its not a matter of whether those I care about can accept me, whether I can trust them, but whether I can trust ME. Often, this is one of the motivations such a survivor has for experimenting with a d/s lifestyle. The reasoning = "If I can't trust myself, maybe I can trust x (master, husband, dom, etc)". If she still feels deep down that she can't trust herself, though, she will never trust you truly either. She may not even KNOW that it is really herself she can't trust.

I myself followed a similar pattern with the lifestyle. It took me years to warm up to the idea that I was submissive. Then I remembered all that I had repressed, and it has taken the past 6 years for me to accept it again (even though a Dom did as much to help me survive the memory recovery as my counselor did). Maybe something you did with her in a scene triggered a memory that she can't deal with and that is why she no longer feels safe.

I think that perhaps she is finding it difficult to communicate whatever is really wrong. Maybe she can't articulate it because she doesn't want to face it. I suspect that if you are patient and keep the channels of communication open, then she will come back to it when she is feeling emotionally stronger, more safe, and more able to be honest with herself. I know I did, and am now in the beginning stages of subbing to a wonderful master who is aware of my issues and willing to deal with their consequences. I hope that you and your wife can get back to this point too. I know in my own life, I got to the point where my sexuality was becoming completely estranged from me, because I was so afraid of what I really wanted and why I think I want it. But I can no longer deny that it's what I want if I want to avoid frigidity. Now that I am surrendering to someone who accepts what I am because of what I went through, I feel more free than I have since the memories surfaced.

I hope this helps...

Respect,

Teleri



(in reply to robertolapiedra)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Start, stop and maybe start again?? - 5/16/2007 1:30:09 AM   
farieanne


Posts: 65
Joined: 2/24/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: teleri


In all likelyhood, this sub believes that her desire to submit is rooted in the abuse. I know I do. This is the real reason behind the on again/off again behavior. You get ok with it, but then something you do with your Master triggers a memory and the tenuous comfort you have found dissapates. I can't tell from what you say whether you any act or failure to act on your part abrogated that trust. It could be that she is projecting on you her reactions to other events. You sound a little bewildered, so I suspect it is the latter.

To all those well-meaning respondents here who recommended therapy, yes it is important. But it only goes so far. In the end, for the survivor, it becomes a matter of choice: can I live with these memories and go on with my life, or not? Can I trust anyone, or am I just emotionally frigid? These types of self-questions are very difficult to share with anyone, even a spouse of many years.

The process of self-recovery when such memories rise up to bite us in the ass isn't easy, It requires ruthless self-honesty and can take years to come to terms with. Most often, for me, its not a matter of whether those I care about can accept me, whether I can trust them, but whether I can trust ME. Often, this is one of the motivations such a survivor has for experimenting with a d/s lifestyle. The reasoning = "If I can't trust myself, maybe I can trust x (master, husband, dom, etc)". If she still feels deep down that she can't trust herself, though, she will never trust you truly either. She may not even KNOW that it is really herself she can't trust.

I myself followed a similar pattern with the lifestyle. It took me years to warm up to the idea that I was submissive. Then I remembered all that I had repressed, and it has taken the past 6 years for me to accept it again (even though a Dom did as much to help me survive the memory recovery as my counselor did). Maybe something you did with her in a scene triggered a memory that she can't deal with and that is why she no longer feels safe.

I hope this helps...

Respect,

Teleri





Hi,
i agree with most of what you are saying. i think you are very close. Therapy can only do so much and the rest is up to her to come to terms with. she needs to believe she is a survivor and no longer a victim. Many adults molested as children have trouble trusting themselves and feel guilty and shameful. Not because they believe the act was their fault but because of their bodies responses to what happened to them. Humans are sexual beings and our bodies are built to act and react in certain ways to certain stimuli but as a child this is very hard to comprehend. For some who are also victims of neglect the sexual abuse may be the only attention that was given and so they may have began to crave it and maybe even seek it out. This is why they do not trust themselves and also why the feel guilty and shame.

As adults when they begin to have the same feelings for their mate and or activities they do with their mate it brings out the feelings of mistrust, guilt, and shame. they feel like a naughty, dirty little girl/woman. "Something must be wrong with (me) if i want and like how this makes me feel. It must be wrong so i must be bad."

People are proud to claim the good things in their lives that help form who they have become. Most people do not also want to admit that the bad stuff has also helped make us who we are. If you truly believe your a good person and can believe that everything that has happened in your life has made you who you are you can begin to shed the guilt and shame. If you do not believe you are a over all good person it is doubtful you can get rid of the "dirty little girl" feeling or learn to like it.

i think the thing "she" needs is to learn, and all people really, to accept herself and to see she is a good worthwhile person. She did something right or she would not be here today. She is a survivor not a victim.  All that happened to her has made her who she is. She needs to be proud of who she is, where she came from and what she has survived. i believe a good Dom/me can be as much help and often more than a good therapist.

hope this helps.

_____________________________

Master Peter's

"A woman will always sacrifice herself if you give her the opportunity. It is her favourite form of self-indulgence.” - William Somerset Maugham

(in reply to teleri)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Start, stop and maybe start again?? - 5/16/2007 2:11:07 PM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline
I to was a victom of sexual abuse that started in my childhood but lasted far into my adult years I became so used to it it seemed normal to have NO controll but when one feels they have no controll how can they give that controll to another, you cant give something you dont feel you have. She feels the need to scramble for whatever controll she can and when she feels you want to take it from her again she gets scared, Trust me I know that feeling. She has to want to give you that controll and in order for her to want to give it she has to feel she has it to give. The only way to ever get her to really submit to you (if that is even a real possability it may not be) you have to first help her feel like she has some controll over her own self her own life. Ones you have helped you(I ment HER not you) with that not only will she trust you more for it she will be more willing to hand the controll you helped you(again HER not you)  get over to you. I hope that makes sence!

Magik's slave

Sorry I didnt see those mistakes till AFETER I couldnt edit, I hope this makes more sence

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to MagiksSlave)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Start, stop and maybe start again?? - 5/16/2007 2:15:13 PM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: teleri

I am also a sub who underwent extreme sexual abuse as a kid. I read this entire thread, and noticed a lot of doms who seemed to feel that the typical definitions apply to such a survivor. In doing so you are missing the point.

In all likelyhood, this sub believes that her desire to submit is rooted in the abuse. I know I do. This is the real reason behind the on again/off again behavior. You get ok with it, but then something you do with your Master triggers a memory and the tenuous comfort you have found dissapates. I can't tell from what you say whether you any act or failure to act on your part abrogated that trust. It could be that she is projecting on you her reactions to other events. You sound a little bewildered, so I suspect it is the latter.

To all those well-meaning respondents here who recommended therapy, yes it is important. But it only goes so far. In the end, for the survivor, it becomes a matter of choice: can I live with these memories and go on with my life, or not? Can I trust anyone, or am I just emotionally frigid? These types of self-questions are very difficult to share with anyone, even a spouse of many years.

The process of self-recovery when such memories rise up to bite us in the ass isn't easy, It requires ruthless self-honesty and can take years to come to terms with. Most often, for me, its not a matter of whether those I care about can accept me, whether I can trust them, but whether I can trust ME. Often, this is one of the motivations such a survivor has for experimenting with a d/s lifestyle. The reasoning = "If I can't trust myself, maybe I can trust x (master, husband, dom, etc)". If she still feels deep down that she can't trust herself, though, she will never trust you truly either. She may not even KNOW that it is really herself she can't trust.

I myself followed a similar pattern with the lifestyle. It took me years to warm up to the idea that I was submissive. Then I remembered all that I had repressed, and it has taken the past 6 years for me to accept it again (even though a Dom did as much to help me survive the memory recovery as my counselor did). Maybe something you did with her in a scene triggered a memory that she can't deal with and that is why she no longer feels safe.

I think that perhaps she is finding it difficult to communicate whatever is really wrong. Maybe she can't articulate it because she doesn't want to face it. I suspect that if you are patient and keep the channels of communication open, then she will come back to it when she is feeling emotionally stronger, more safe, and more able to be honest with herself. I know I did, and am now in the beginning stages of subbing to a wonderful master who is aware of my issues and willing to deal with their consequences. I hope that you and your wife can get back to this point too. I know in my own life, I got to the point where my sexuality was becoming completely estranged from me, because I was so afraid of what I really wanted and why I think I want it. But I can no longer deny that it's what I want if I want to avoid frigidity. Now that I am surrendering to someone who accepts what I am because of what I went through, I feel more free than I have since the memories surfaced.

I hope this helps...

Respect,

Teleri





Hon I understand where you are comineg from but this is a gross generalization YOU feel your submission comes from your abuse!! but take it from someone who was sexualy abused as well as beaten from age 5-21, I do not feel my wish and need to be Masters slave is due to my abuse. So while it may be true for You it doesnt make it any more likely true for His wife sure that could be the case but that isnt any more likely to be the reason then any other reason!

Magik's slave

< Message edited by MagiksSlave -- 5/16/2007 2:16:40 PM >

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to teleri)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Start, stop and maybe start again?? - 5/16/2007 3:16:50 PM   
ceildlh


Posts: 7
Joined: 5/4/2007
Status: offline 		I agree with a few of the Survivors that have posted.  i think there are a few reasons that we might get involved in the Lifestyle. But everyone has their own story, their own reason.  For me the abuse started early in my childhood and lasted 8 long years with no one believing me when i finally did have the courage to tell, the courage to trust. And i repressed things and coped the best way i knew how throughout my life. Sometimes i think that my life might be different now had none of that had happened, but i would still have had the emotional/physical scars that my dear father left on me as a sign of his parenting.

what i'm getting to here is that, therapy might indeed help. early on in my life i got therapy for the issues and have since gone back and done the therapy thing a few more times in my life. but i don't feel that my submission is tied to what horror i went through as a child. my past is my past, it is part of me just like my blue eyes, just like the person that i am today. for me, personally, i have this internal need to give, to make others lives better and only in doing that, do i feel some sort of satisfaction. my submission comes from this place, this place of wanting to make the Dom happy (if i had one) and if i could do whatever necessary to make His life easier, better, to do whatever He wants. this is what would bring me happiness.

for me though, who put my submission on hold because of a past bad scene with my SO at the time who i was subbing to... i had not gotten into  therapy yet. and the scene broke me in many ways. i triggered back to a time that i had not been prepared to remember. i was lucky to survive the situation at all. but its been 11 years since then.

now i trust myself. im not that scared little child anymore constantly afraid to feel anything. always worried that i will say the wrong thing, do the wrong thing.. make someone unhappy. have a reason to self-injure myself, punish myself for being stupid. I am learning to accept all of what makes me who i am, and yes, therapy helped with some of that. for awhile, my husband helped (not anymore but thats ok) and my friends help and for me writing how i feel helps. Maybe suggesting that she keep a journal to see if she wants to write down how she is feeling, maybe that might help you both see what is going on.  just a thought. ~blessed be

(in reply to MagiksSlave)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Start, stop and maybe start again?? - 5/16/2007 4:52:57 PM   
ICGsteve


Posts: 202
Joined: 2/2/2005
Status: offline 		I have come across many survivors who admit to using BDSM to work through the original abuse, and I know my wife has done that. We were very young when we got married and I had no experience with sex, but with-in months she was opening up about stuff she wanted me to do to her. When she suggested that I tie her to the bed at a hotel and go down to the bar to find guys to do her it was not fantasy, she wanted me to do it. From the beginning we have played BDSM games, but it was mostly with her scripting. Also, when I tied her up she needed it to be something that she could get out of. She wanted me to do to her things that her abusers had done, which is common.

Thing is that twenty years on she still had never been willing to confront herself head on, resulting in all of the usual turmoil with-in her and our marriage. I suggested M/s because I though that I could guide her to  embracing her submissive side which she claimed that she wanted to find but had never allowed herself to explore because she thought that she always had to stay strong so that she could stay safe. Our plan to use M/s to help her was working wonderfully until we hit a brick wall, which I think was that was that she was going to need to look inside and accept herself. As much as she loves sex and role playing she was not going there with M/s any more than she was willing to do it in the counselor's office or any other time for that matter.

She made a comment the other week which I think is telling, she said "I am too stubborn to get hurt". This tells me that she is not willing to be vulnerable, that she still believes that safety is the result of staying  strong, which she takes as willfully strong. Being overly full of pride and overly willful (to the point of being abusive towards me)  has always been a problem with her.

I am not sure where we go from here, thus  this thread. It feels like we backed-up a long way. Edit: I am sure that her craving for submission has not gone away, but she acts like she is not willing to try it again.

< Message edited by ICGsteve -- 5/16/2007 5:47:32 PM >

(in reply to ceildlh)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Start, stop and maybe start again?? - 5/16/2007 5:36:21 PM   
ICGsteve


Posts: 202
Joined: 2/2/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

You want to make sure she is safe to act out but also quite clear that there is only ONE path to submitting to you and that is the path YOU have laid out.  Just like an unruly child, you always make sure they feel love and that you object to the act, not them.  Make it clear they won't get their way no matter how big the tantrum, be calm and loving.

. 


I have increasingly done this over the years, and it has generally worked. The problem with this theory is that she has a difficult time feeling love, feeling like she loves. I resist her manipulations now because I am sick of it, I can't do the roller coaster anymore. What she feels now that she can not manipulate me is loss of control of the situation, and she is in fight or flight mode.

She has said that she wants a divorce, but then I have heard that several hundreds of times over the years, she even filed once. I told her to do what she think she needs to do but that I was going to be true to who I am and what I believe. Her announcement that she is going to shit can the relationship used to work on me, make me compliant, but has not for years. Funny thing is she was still shocked this time that she got no reaction out of me. Anyway, I  am tired of the BS, and  increasing feel like I don't want her to stay unless she  gets her shit together and/or submits. I will never leave her, and I have told her this and I think that she knows it. My plan at the moment is that I am not going to stay quiet about our problems until we fix a few of them, and that she will either hit the road because she does not want to be pushed, or she will deal with me.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Start, stop and maybe start again?? - 5/17/2007 3:48:42 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ICGsteve

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Steve,


The day she feels shitty, you are trying to take too much and are an asshole, the days she wants more and you are tired, you are not going to be domly enough.  Let me guess, your relationship feels like it is a roller coaster ride?  Been there, done that.
.


Which is why it has to be M/s.  Problem is this makes the barrier of her fears that much higher. Just as she is very fearful of submission so is she very drawn towards it, but with her it has to be all the way or not at all. Anything less than full bore M/s she will constantly try to  manipulate her way out of it, and we both know it.


You really think the titles "master" and "slave" are going to change any of that?

Breaking news: You are still going to be exactly the same people you were before with exactly the same problems.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to ICGsteve)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Start, stop and maybe start again?? - 5/17/2007 8:29:06 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Steve,

For the record, I think it takes big ass balls to lay yourself out in a thread like this and to me that says a lot about your character and your strength of will.

Kudos!

Michael

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Start, stop and maybe start again?? - 5/17/2007 9:55:19 AM   
smilingjaguar


Posts: 271
Status: offline 		She doesn't trust you Steve.  It's that simple.  She still feels she has to protect that hurt and pain from you.  Until you become the man that she can trust to love that part of her, it's always going to be the same old same old. 

I have written and deleted quite a few responses to you because you trip my manipulation trigger big time.  If someone is healed enough to be able to talk freely and openly about their experiences gets the creeps from you I can't help but understand why she hasn't turned everything over to her.  I know it sounds harsh, but it's balls to the walls truth.  You're going to have to move a lot slower than you want to and be more flexible than you seem to be willing to be if you truly want a happy, emotionally healthy slave.  It will take years of patience and putting her needs first for her to give herself to you totally.  You eat an elephant one bite at a time, but right now you are trying to swallow it whole and not understanding why you're choking.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Start, stop and maybe start again?? - 5/17/2007 11:26:05 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Wow!  I am sitting here shaking my head in awe.  Everyone has gone deep here and there were so many great responses that I can’t comment on all of them.  It is hard to say what exactly is going on and what is needed, but I feel very strongly that this lady needs a time out.  There are so many things that are going on that it would take a bit of time to figure it all out even if counseling was brought into the situation.  Everything is at a point of overwhelming and at that point you can’t get too far.

ICGSteve, there are some really serious issues here that aren’t going to be overcome over-night.  It seems you are trying to get things to go back to normal, but if normal was healthy, your wife would not be where she is at the moment.  Right now trying to figure out why she does what she does or why she responded so well to some things and then not so well, isn’t going to help at this point.  She needs to be made safe and to know that she is unconditionally loved.  Period. I think others have said this in many different ways, but I think you are trying to fix your wife and you may not be hearing them.  Many try to fix things and maybe their job isn’t to fix anything, but to hold a hand while it is fixed. 

Forget anything but the woman… the lifestyle… vanilla and nightmares of never living the lifestyle again… and all that.  Look at the woman.  She needs to be loved unconditionally and to be safe.  I will say it over and over again.  Forget self… forget everything if you intend to make her feel loved and safe, because if she denotes anything that isn’t pure from you, she isn’t ever going to get there with you.

Clearly too many issues got passed off as being non-issues or dealt with when they weren’t and I would suggest a good counselor or someone who has dealt with these issues that isn’t totally foreign to the lifestyle issues that will be brought up.  If she won’t go to a counselor, then there may be nothing you can do for her or your marriage.  You will either have to accept her failure to be able to look deep and go through it all or find a way to get someone who is not a threat to her to help in alternative ways.  I have seen a lot of people hit middle age and all of a sudden, not be able to handle what they seemingly handled before.  I always wondered what caused that, but haven’t gotten any answers I am yet comfortable with.  I just go on… more life… more bashing… more reminders… and just plan old tired of it all.

Please, please just give it all a rest for a bit and let her ease into whatever she will ease into.  I would love to give a better response and suggestions other than this, but this is far beyond anything that any of us can decipher ‘here’.

I am not a professional counselor, but I was a very good lay counselor who was very effective in getting people to a place where they could function much faster than most professionals.  There are people out there that can help, but you are too close to the situation and too involved.  Please get some outside help that will focus on your wife.  I personally wouldn’t even go into the issues of your relationship at this time because your wife has wounds that started before you that were not dealt with in a way that she is comfortable with, thus her doubts about everything.  Then life and relationships may have compounded things.  Once she is on a more even balance, then your relationship can be mended.

If your wife went to the doctor and he/she told her that she was very ill and could die… would you try anything to keep her alive?  Well, if so… that is your answer! Put all aside and see to the health and well being of your wife, and at any expense or there might not be much left to mend.

Just love her unconditionally and when she actually feels it, if she can receive it, things could turn around.

Just my two cents…

Lockit

(in reply to smilingjaguar)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Start, stop and maybe start again?? - 5/17/2007 5:37:24 PM   
ICGsteve


Posts: 202
Joined: 2/2/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Steve,

For the record, I think it takes big ass balls to lay yourself out in a thread like this and to me that says a lot about your character and your strength of will.

Kudos!

Michael


It must be my Zen training. I am not attached to being right. I move forward with vigor with what I believe, and if I am wrong I will find out soon enough. I am constantly checking to see if I still think that  I am right, and if I decide that I am wrong I turn on a dime.   I think I know, but I wanted to see if anyone noticed something that I did not. Honesty is the holy grail to me, honesty to oneself and to others. I don't care who sees something first, I don't care how "bad" I look,  so long as I am not living in denial or in delusion I am good.

Re all the "issues", well,  life is messy.  It is even more sloppy when you are connected to an unwhole person. At the end of the day the only thing that really  matters in life is what you believe in, and I believe in love before all else. This has resulted is a good about of pain and some  ridiculously stupid (illogical) decisions, but it has never been wrong. One man called love "divine madness" and  the experience that is my life gives me some clue of what he was talking about. To those who are offended by the mess I offer no apologies.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 35
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