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RE: Vanilla = Weak?! - 5/15/2007 6:55:23 PM   
MsCara


Posts: 31
Joined: 6/26/2004
Status: offline 		hops over to this thread .. <raises hand>  .. In another thread I said I find vanilla men to be weak and easily manipulated and that I found it hard to have respect for them.  It's me .. I am guilty ... <grins>
For the proverbial record .. I am not new to this "lifestyle" .. I was born into a D/s household, was raised this way, and live this way.  I have never lived a vanilla lifestyle.    I also believe I added to each his own.  
smiles ...

(in reply to Braddock)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Vanilla = Weak?! - 5/15/2007 6:59:21 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: spankmepink11

Is it possible the person you quoted as saying vanilla is "weak" meant in  context  with  lame....boring...etc?


In the context this OP is refering to, I'm pretty sure that it wasn't meant as boring. Vanilla men were referred to as weak and not respected by the person who made the comment.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to spankmepink11)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Vanilla = Weak?! - 5/15/2007 7:00:55 PM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		A vanilla learns a little BDSM and he/she is suddenly transformed into the Fonz?

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to MsCara)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Vanilla = Weak?! - 5/15/2007 7:28:19 PM   
szobras


Posts: 435
Joined: 9/18/2006
Status: offline 		I said I find vanilla men to be weak and easily manipulated
Hmmm,... Guess she never met my father, or my uncles.

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Vanilla = Weak?! - 5/15/2007 7:35:02 PM   
Elorin


Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		~using fast reply~ I think that being vanilla because you refuse to think for yourself, apply your reason and rational mind to your cultural mores, and reconsider your social conditioning is weak. I think, however, if you have considered kink and rejected it because it isn't for you (as opposed to because your church teaches it is wrong, you are afraid of it, or other reasons like that) you aren't weak - you just aren't kinky.

Choosing an alternate lifestyle takes strength. Just because you don't choose an alternate lifestyle doesn't mean you don't have that strength, but many people are "vanilla" and mainstream, middle of the road mentality because that is what they were taught to be - and they never had/never used their strength to consider the other possibilities.

~E

_____________________________

'cause when i look down /i just miss all the good stuff / when i look up / i just trip over things

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Vanilla = Weak?! - 5/15/2007 7:38:28 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

Some of the strongest people I know are 'nillas. And some of the weakest I've met are so-called Doms and subs.


I am with Bobbi on this one, if BDSM gives you a cool kids card, I will pass.
Most people that I know and respect are not kinky, cause they fucking do not want to be, hardly because
they are weak.
This is one of the craziest assumptions I have heard in a long time.
Peace 

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Vanilla = Weak?! - 5/15/2007 7:41:44 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCara

hops over to this thread .. <raises hand>  .. In another thread I said I find vanilla men to be weak and easily manipulated and that I found it hard to have respect for them.  It's me .. I am guilty ... <grins>
For the proverbial record .. I am not new to this "lifestyle" .. I was born into a D/s household, was raised this way, and live this way.  I have never lived a vanilla lifestyle.    I also believe I added to each his own.  
smiles ...


Oh honey, that wee font is really hard to read.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to MsCara)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Vanilla = Weak?! - 5/15/2007 7:43:03 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		Someplace in my box of cartoons is one of a married couple at an ice cream shop. The wife says to the husband, "For God's sake, Harold, if want vanilla, get vanilla."

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Vanilla = Weak?! - 5/15/2007 7:43:04 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

A vanilla learns a little BDSM and he/she is suddenly transformed into the Fonz?


Handing out the cool kids cards now, and the dark fonz glasses.
Strike a fucking pose damn it!
vogue!

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Vanilla = Weak?! - 5/15/2007 8:32:53 PM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCara

hops over to this thread .. <raises hand>  .. In another thread I said I find vanilla men to be weak and easily manipulated and that I found it hard to have respect for them.  It's me .. I am guilty ... <grins>
For the proverbial record .. I am not new to this "lifestyle" .. I was born into a D/s household, was raised this way, and live this way.  I have never lived a vanilla lifestyle.    I also believe I added to each his own.  
smiles ...


I was not gonna point you out :-) {adjusts halo}

You must not know the vanilla men I know, I have more respect for most vanilla men than I do for lifestyle men, especially hte man I am currently seeing, he is a single father, runs his own business, is a volunteer fire fighter {texts me at the very moment I mention him on a board, lol}, and does what he says he will.

I find most lifestyle men weak and manipulators and/or egomaniacs, lol; they believe they are superior to vanilla men because thay can 'control' another. Then again, most male tops avoid contact with me because my submissive side remains elusive to most of them.

{{hugs}} to MsCara, ou never know, yuo may like some of the vanilla men I know. Email me, we can talk and compare notes ;o)

_____________________________

http://slaverosebeauty.livejournal.com/

"Friends live on in our hearts, regardless if they are here or not."

(in reply to MsCara)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Vanilla = Weak?! - 5/15/2007 8:42:36 PM   
Faramir


Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elorin
~using fast reply~ I think that being vanilla because you refuse to think for yourself, apply your reason and rational mind to your cultural mores, and reconsider your social conditioning is weak. I think, however, if you have considered kink and rejected it because it isn't for you (as opposed to because your church teaches it is wrong, you are afraid of it, or other reasons like that) you aren't weak - you just aren't kinky.


Really-so if someone makes a life choice based on their ethical or faith framework that doesn't agree with yours, they're weak?  I know a woman who feels that SM action violates the Eightfold Path, in particular Right Action.  I don't agree with her, but she sure as shit isn't weak--she's just come to a different conclusion than I have about about how one ends dukkha.

And if Charlie Cristian or Suzy Sunni felt that a given kink or BDSM practice was not consonant with their faith, who the fuck are you to dismiss their decision to live in obedience to a given faith or ethos?

Isn't it funny--even in a thread like this, where it is clear that the tendency to go "Oh, my way is superior/harder/more rigorous" or whatever, some people can't help doing it.  Your intellectualy weak, judemental and self-congratulatory "Choosing an alternate lifestyle takes strength," bullshit reflects poorly on only one person: you.

(in reply to Elorin)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Vanilla = Weak?! - 5/15/2007 8:45:22 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		Slaverose, I am going to put you under my protection.
You don't even want to know what I think about the majority of the
submissive men that approach me online.
Pretty similar to what you said.
That air of superiority about being in this lifestyle puzzles me.
But I think for some people, this is all they have going for them in order to feel special.
Most really happy or successful people are not going to feel they are superior to others
because of BDSM activity.
But then the more "out there" you are in the public eye, the less you WANT to be known
for this sort of activity.

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Vanilla = Weak?! - 5/15/2007 8:45:32 PM   
Faramir


Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty
I find most lifestyle men weak and manipulators and/or egomaniacs, lol; they believe they are superior to vanilla men because thay can 'control' another. Then again, most male tops avoid contact with me because my submissive side remains elusive to most of them.


That's just as fucking dumb as "vanilla men are weak."  People's sexual orientations or modes--what makes their naughty bits get engorged--isn't correlated with virtue or vice.  iI's just what makes your dick hard or your pussy wet.

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Vanilla = Weak?! - 5/15/2007 8:48:14 PM   
sweetnurseBBW


Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		There are many weak people in this lifestyle. There are the same in the vanilla world.  Vanilla people have a right to be what they choose just the same as we do. Doesn't make someone weaker or stronger to choose one or the other.

_____________________________

Sir Pain's pain slut

(in reply to Elorin)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Vanilla = Weak?! - 5/15/2007 8:59:03 PM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Slaverose, I am going to put you under my protection.
You don't even want to know what I think about the majority of the submissive men that approach me online.
Pretty similar to what you said.
That air of superiority about being in this lifestyle puzzles me.
But I think for some people, this is all they have going for them in order to feel special.
Most really happy or successful people are not going to feel they are superior to others because of BDSM activity.
But then the more "out there" you are in the public eye, the less you WANT to be known for this sort of activity.


{{hugs}} MsMia, thank you. Looks like I need to be protected, lol.

I don't believe in one person being superior, its an ego thing, to believe that one person is better or superior to another, its all ego. EVERYONE is special.

_____________________________

http://slaverosebeauty.livejournal.com/

"Friends live on in our hearts, regardless if they are here or not."

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Vanilla = Weak?! - 5/15/2007 9:13:38 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I must agree with Faramir. I've seriously contemplated becoming a satanist, but I've never seriously considered becoming catholic.  I've seriously contemplated becoming Jewish, but I've never seriously considered becoming wiccan- does that mean I'm weak? 

You don't have to seriously consider and reject every option out there in order to be strong in your own way.

However, you should make something your beliefs for more than simply "It's what was handed to me." Although ironically, that's pretty much what all faith boils down to.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Vanilla = Weak?! - 5/15/2007 9:41:58 PM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir
People's sexual orientations or modes--what makes their naughty bits get engorged--isn't correlated with virtue or vice.  iI's just what makes your dick hard or your pussy wet.


Sexual orientation doesn't have anything to do with weakness or with what gets one aroused. I was not talking about sexual orientation or modes, I was talking in general; I never mentioned sex. Sex is honestly the last thing on my mind these days. It doesn't have a place in my life for the most part, when it does its a rarity.

Regarding what LA said, I have thought about changing religions [ok, actually joining one] just as I have thought about becoming a Mistress or leaving the lifestyle. Thats me, I am always looking around and wondering.

Isn't weakness just like strength, all a matter of perception and in the mind, not neccessarly in the physical?

_____________________________

http://slaverosebeauty.livejournal.com/

"Friends live on in our hearts, regardless if they are here or not."

(in reply to Faramir)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Vanilla = Weak?! - 5/15/2007 11:10:24 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty

Sexual orientation doesn't have anything to do with weakness or with what gets one aroused. I was not talking about sexual orientation or modes, I was talking in general; I never mentioned sex. Sex is honestly the last thing on my mind these days. It doesn't have a place in my life for the most part, when it does its a rarity.



I think that in regard to what faramir was stating about orientation, it often does have something to do with sex, it is not all about sex, but it has as much to do with sex for many of us as our gender orientation does. In other words I am romantically, sexually, and psychologically geared toward dominant men. It does not make us weaker or stronger to be oriented one way or another. We just are what we are. I think that your generalization that so-called vanilla men are superior to men that are into Ds as a way to structure their relationships sounds as ignorant as calling vanillas "weak". Perhaps to you vanilla men are somehow superior for whatever reason, but that is just your experience. I have not had that experience personally, and I am very grateful for my dynamic with a man that has helped me heal, lent me his strength, and contributed much to my peace, security, and happiness.

I do not expect my Daddy to be perfectly strong in every way anyways, it seems unreasonable to expect so much from one person. People on pedestals have a way of falling off of them.

You know, I am not totally against dating vanilla if I suddently found myself looking again for some strange reason, but the man would be someone I perceived as dominant in nature even if he did not know what Ds was. I have dated some very weak vanilla men in my time, so I would not say weakness is a vanilla or a lifetyle thing, it is a people thing.



_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Vanilla = Weak?! - 5/16/2007 4:46:05 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		Vanilla does not equal weak, it just equals different. Anyone who thinks because they live a certain lifestyle that that makes them superior is only kidding themselves. People live all sorts of lifestyles and while one way may not appeal to all, yet it doesn't make it any weaker or stronger than the next.

It sounds as if the person you quoted is supposedly dominant and in their mindset anyone who isn't dominant and in the lifestyle is a weakling. To me that spells i-n-s-e-c-u-r-e.

~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to slaverosebeauty)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Vanilla = Weak?! - 5/16/2007 5:37:35 AM   
Elorin


Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elorin
~using fast reply~ I think that being vanilla because you refuse to think for yourself, apply your reason and rational mind to your cultural mores, and reconsider your social conditioning is weak. I think, however, if you have considered kink and rejected it because it isn't for you (as opposed to because your church teaches it is wrong, you are afraid of it, or other reasons like that) you aren't weak - you just aren't kinky.


Really-so if someone makes a life choice based on their ethical or faith framework that doesn't agree with yours, they're weak? 

No, that's not what I meant, though I can understand it is what you got from it. I'm thinking of those who claim to be Christian and do what the preacher says but have never cracked a Bible. And I'm thinking of those who blindly follow what the church teaches is wrong, not from faith but from simply never having considered the matter with logic. Faith is important - I know, because I have a strong faith. However I have considered my faith and recognize the places where it departs from logic. I've thought about it. I've read the Bible and decided if I agree whether what the preacher says actually follows from the Bible reference he gives.

quote:

 I know a woman who feels that SM action violates the Eightfold Path, in particular Right Action.  I don't agree with her, but she sure as shit isn't weak--she's just come to a different conclusion than I have about about how one ends dukkha.

I wasn't saying that having a faith is weakness. I'm not even saying that having blind faith is always weakness, or always denotes weak people. It can, however, be a form of weakness.

quote:

And if Charlie Cristian or Suzy Sunni felt that a given kink or BDSM practice was not consonant with their faith, who the fuck are you to dismiss their decision to live in obedience to a given faith or ethos?

I am a person, just like you, who forms opinions, just like you. Do I dismiss someone's choice to practice their faith? No. Do I feel that if Charlie or Suzy condemns me as wrong or bad that I have a right to form an opinion about them? Absolutely. Are generalizations always true? Not at all.

quote:

Isn't it funny--even in a thread like this, where it is clear that the tendency to go "Oh, my way is superior/harder/more rigorous" or whatever, some people can't help doing it.  Your intellectualy weak, judemental and self-congratulatory "Choosing an alternate lifestyle takes strength," bullshit reflects poorly on only one person: you.

I'm sorry you think that my opinion is bullshit. I, of course, disagree. I think that choosing to follow an alternate lifestyle takes a strength that a lot of people don't have. I speak to people every week who have chosen to hide their interest in kink because they are afraid of what might happen if a girlfriend, or wife, or someone else found out they had it. They don't have the strength to say "this is who I am" and accept the harder path. Does that mean that people who do not choose alternate lifestyles are not weak? Absolutely not. But to say that choosing to live an alternate lifestyle does not take strength is to blind yourself to the reality of modern society.

I am not intellectually weak, I am certainly judgemental - just as you are. Self congratulatory? No, simply honest. I lost custody of a child because of choosing to do fetish modeling. I don't congratulate myself for it - I know that it took a form of strength to say "there is nothing wrong with this and I will not pretend that there is." Others will debate that it was foolish of me, but I don't believe in lying - I could not say "no, I won't do this again" because I knew I would. I pay the price for living an alternate lifestyle every day.

Thankfully, I don't condemn others and call them names with the kind of bitterness and venom that you seem to have just because someone's opinion differs from yours.

~E

_____________________________

'cause when i look down /i just miss all the good stuff / when i look up / i just trip over things

(in reply to Faramir)
Profile   Post #: 40
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