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Guilt.... - 5/16/2007 6:29:11 PM   
bellaballanda


Posts: 62
Joined: 9/1/2006
Status: offline 		So while I'm asking questions, I'll ask all the ones in my head right about now....

I'm a giver, I always have been.  It's to the point where I feel guilty for asking for things I need.  I might need a shoulder to cry on or just a friendly ear and I feel bad about needing to ask for it.  It seems to get magnified becuase currently I've been playing with friends of mine and I seem to feel guilty about asking them for things after a scene becuase they're just friends and not my permanent Dominant.  I've confessed this to one of them and he clearly told me that he's always there for me and nto to feel guilty, that it's his job to do things like listen to me if I need to talk about things after a scene.  I sincerely believe him, but I still feel guilty about needing it.  Has this ever happened to anyone else?  How does one get over the guilt of receiving things?


_____________________________

~Shelly

The lifestyle comes to each differently... always remember that....
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RE: Guilt.... - 5/16/2007 6:47:48 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Are you Jewish?  If not, you're still nowhere near my partners level of automatic guilt.

You could think of it this way- guilt means you're being self centered.  It means you think it's all about you.  It means YOU make yourself so important that YOU think you need to feel bad because of what others do.

It also means that you take away from what they give freely by converting it into bad feelings.

Guilt is also a way to distract from taking direct attention.  You don't have to worry about giving a polite response and being in the spotlight when all your focus is on just how guilty that makes you.

You aren't responsible for them- they are responsible for them.  Unless you are THEIR dominant, it's not your place to feel any guilt towards THEIR actions because you had nothing to do with them.

See how self centered guilt is?

On the other hand, sometimes that sends people into even more of a guilt spiral because they feel guilty about feeling guilty.  SO don't go there because that's pointless.

I don't know how to erase guilt.  But I do know that through pointing out how silly my partners guilt is, laughing at him over it repeatedly, blaming it away on his being Jewish, after about 2 years I've managed to stop it much sooner and not let it fester nearly as bad as it used to.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to bellaballanda)
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RE: Guilt.... - 5/16/2007 6:58:25 PM   
bellaballanda


Posts: 62
Joined: 9/1/2006
Status: offline 		I guess I never thought of it that way... It sure does help some.  

_____________________________

~Shelly

The lifestyle comes to each differently... always remember that....

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Guilt.... - 5/16/2007 7:26:08 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Guilt is self centered, it is also based on feeling undeserving. People that feel as though they do not deserve happiness for whatever reason will indulge in guilt. It does not help if they were raised in an atmosphere of guilt.

Just today I was talking with my mom about how little money I spend, and how I watch every penny, and how I would like to get over that because Sinergy does not like it when I comment on the price of EVERYTHING. She says to me "You know, you spend a lot more on yourself than I ever have." And it crossed my mind, Wow, no wonder I feel guilty for spending money on anything for myself, I have the voice of my mother shaming me in my ears...
 
...So I have these competing voices, one is my Daddy telling me I should not consider how much everything costs, especially for myself. The other is my mom who has always heaped guilt whenever I treated myself to anything. I think my Daddy needs to win....smiles.
 


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Guilt.... - 5/16/2007 8:26:48 PM   
robertolapiedra


Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Guilt is self centered, it is also based on feeling undeserving. People that feel as though they do not deserve happiness for whatever reason will indulge in guilt. It does not help if they were raised in an atmosphere of guilt.

Just today I was talking with my mom about how little money I spend, and how I watch every penny, and how I would like to get over that because Sinergy does not like it when I comment on the price of EVERYTHING. She says to me "You know, you spend a lot more on yourself than I ever have." And it crossed my mind, Wow, no wonder I feel guilty for spending money on anything for myself, I have the voice of my mother shaming me in my ears...
 
...So I have these competing voices, one is my Daddy telling me I should not consider how much everything costs, especially for myself. The other is my mom who has always heaped guilt whenever I treated myself to anything. I think my Daddy needs to win....smiles.
 



Hello juliaoceania. Great post. I feel you are lucky in hearing only two voices! Usually you find a whole comity in there! RL

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RE: Guilt.... - 5/16/2007 8:34:57 PM   
sublizzie


Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline 		One thing I've read about on these forums is a need that some Dominants/Tops have to give aftercare to their submissives/bottoms. It helps them come down from a scene. This is not true of *all* Dominants but if you can look at needing their helps as a way of allowing them to complete their scene it might help you.

I've also found that one thing the Dominants I know like to do is be dominant. Amazing as that may be... Some Dominants really *like* to give to a submissive. They like to be asked for aftercare. It helps them feel good in their dominance. So it's a gift that you are giving them by asking for their help. There's no reason to feel guilty about allowing someone to fully express their dominance in a way that they enjoy.

Just my thoughts....

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RE: Guilt.... - 5/16/2007 9:00:35 PM   
minnetar


Posts: 1272
Joined: 4/11/2007
Status: offline 		i think maybe more so than guilt is that we don't feel we are entitled to ask others for anything.  We are the ones who are supposed to do all the giving so it is extremely hard to take care of ourselves and learn to ask for things when we need them. 


minnetar

(in reply to bellaballanda)
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RE: Guilt.... - 5/16/2007 9:16:06 PM   
sweetnurseBBW


Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		AS others have said guilt is a self centered emotion. I have never felt guilt over receiving things. I am appreciative and grateful for all things that I am given by whomever. As long as you are aware of this feeling you can work to change it.

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Sir Pain's pain slut

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RE: Guilt.... - 5/16/2007 9:26:13 PM   
bellaballanda


Posts: 62
Joined: 9/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: minnetar

i think maybe more so than guilt is that we don't feel we are entitled to ask others for anything.  We are the ones who are supposed to do all the giving so it is extremely hard to take care of ourselves and learn to ask for things when we need them. 


minnetar



I really think this is the nub of my issue.  I feel like it's some how wrong for me to ask for something, that I should be the one giving things....


_____________________________

~Shelly

The lifestyle comes to each differently... always remember that....

(in reply to minnetar)
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RE: Guilt.... - 5/16/2007 9:26:26 PM   
spanklette


Posts: 882
Joined: 2/22/2005
Status: offline 		This topic actually came up between myself and a slave friend of mine. It was Mother's Day and her UM's were bestowing her with gifts. She felt uncomfortable being on the receiving end of gif giving. It wasn't exactly guilt, but maybe it was and she just never worded it that way.
 
Some people are just wired that way, I suppose. I can understand the responses about it being a self-centered emotion...but for some reason it just doesn't compute for me. Maybe that's just because I don't see her as self-centerd.

_____________________________

~spanklette~

"The important thing is this: to be able at any moment to sacrifice what we are for what we could become. " Charles du Bois

"Please don't shout, can't you see I'm not listening." Billie Myers

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RE: Guilt.... - 5/16/2007 9:40:19 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		*shrug* It's the same way that the women who can never say no or need to do everything and make everyone else happy are selfish- they think they NEED to do it or it won't get done, or done right, they think they NEED to do it or someone will feel bad, they think they NEED to do it or things won't be right, they think they NEED to do it or they won't be a good person.

It's really all about them.  They take on everyones feelings and choices and outcomes and pile it all onto their own shoulders.  That's pretty selfish and self-centered.

It's also ironic.  But still true.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Guilt.... - 5/17/2007 7:52:00 PM   
minnetar


Posts: 1272
Joined: 4/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

*shrug* It's the same way that the women who can never say no or need to do everything and make everyone else happy are selfish- they think they NEED to do it or it won't get done, or done right, they think they NEED to do it or someone will feel bad, they think they NEED to do it or things won't be right, they think they NEED to do it or they won't be a good person.

It's really all about them.  They take on everyones feelings and choices and outcomes and pile it all onto their own shoulders.  That's pretty selfish and self-centered.

It's also ironic.  But still true.


LA,
i think you equate it to something differently than what she now believes and are mad about it. The guilt is about self worth.  You find that self centered?  Sorry for this one instance in your thousands of posts you didn't have the answer. Your last reply was less than eloquent as i have found all of your others to be.

minnetar

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Guilt.... - 5/17/2007 8:44:33 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

*shrug* It's the same way that the women who can never say no or need to do everything and make everyone else happy are selfish- they think they NEED to do it or it won't get done, or done right, they think they NEED to do it or someone will feel bad, they think they NEED to do it or things won't be right, they think they NEED to do it or they won't be a good person.

It's really all about them.  They take on everyones feelings and choices and outcomes and pile it all onto their own shoulders.  That's pretty selfish and self-centered.

It's also ironic.  But still true.



I think that it takes a lot of introspection to discover emotionally what you are talking about LA. My guilt was often a cop out, but that took some bare nails honesty to discover about myself. Of course I was raised in a family that had some built in guilt, but holding on to it was all about me, no one else. It is a very self absorbed thing.

As a person that walked around with a heap of guilt for  a long long time, I felt that everyone's issues were my fault. I had a very distorted view of my own powers, gave myself too much credit for my ability to fuck everything up, and basically put too much importance on my role in the world. I was not as important as I had thought (oh say it isn't so!). Other people had power too! They were not victims of my failings, just like I am not a victim of anyone else's. It is all about personal responsibility, and those who really believe in that do not walk around feeling guilty and self important all the time. They realize that others call the shots in their own life, and that they are the masters of their own destinies.. everyone is the master of their own destiny.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Guilt.... - 5/17/2007 8:55:26 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Hey Julia, that's very cool- perhaps part of why I'm so ok with my selfishness and lack of guilt now is because I was always the baby and kept out of things in my family.  So I couldn't be responsible for anything or to anyone.  I also was a lot of "firsts" in my family and had to pretty much cut my own path through a lot of it.

Of course, that also caused me to feel left out, mistrustful, uninformed and insecure which is part of what led to my sense of perfectionism and anxiety.

Good with the bad I guess.

Nifty perspective, thanks.

< Message edited by LuckyAlbatross -- 5/17/2007 8:58:22 PM >

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Guilt.... - 5/17/2007 10:31:54 PM   
minnetar


Posts: 1272
Joined: 4/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Hey Julia, that's very cool- perhaps part of why I'm so ok with my selfishness and lack of guilt now is because I was always the baby and kept out of things in my family.  So I couldn't be responsible for anything or to anyone.  I also was a lot of "firsts" in my family and had to pretty much cut my own path through a lot of it.

Of course, that also caused me to feel left out, mistrustful, uninformed and insecure which is part of what led to my sense of perfectionism and anxiety.

Good with the bad I guess.

Nifty perspective, thanks.


why are you equating a low self esteem with self centered?  They are totally different concepts as far as i am concerned.
You are just seeking another way to validate your opinion when it was shown by the poster as not her feelings.  Get over it.  Talk about self centered.  It is you always having to feel right and not accepting how another feels.  You have continually tried to make her opinion shown as invalid.

minnetar

< Message edited by minnetar -- 5/17/2007 10:33:10 PM >

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RE: Guilt.... - 5/17/2007 11:09:07 PM   
DarkDreams123


Posts: 74
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings bellaballanda,

I agree with the advice that LuckyAlbatross and juliaoceania have given you.

In my opinion, there are some people who have a desire to give and serve others because it gives them a sense of value and self-worth. Giving and serving gives them a place in life. This kind of person bases their self-worth on something that they can do rather than on something that they are.

I think this might explain why you feel guilty when someone else to gives to you. When you receive from someone else, it feels foreign to you. You aren't comfortable in this kind of role. Again, you aren't getting the sense of self-worth by what you can do: instead you are "giving" this "value" to the other person.

As to what you can do to deal with your feelings of guilt: first, is to be aware of why you are feeling guilty and that these feelings are "false." Second, I think if you were to make a conscious effort to receive from others more, the feelings of guilt will lessen with time.

I think it speaks well of you that you have the self-awareness to even ask the question.

Good luck,

-DarkDreams

(in reply to bellaballanda)
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RE: Guilt.... - 5/17/2007 11:42:17 PM   
bellaballanda


Posts: 62
Joined: 9/1/2006
Status: offline 		Thank you Dark Dreams.  I've been doing some serious thinking about it.  I think it goes back to my earliest sexual experiences.  I was so uncomfortable with my body and sexuality and just got into a habbit of paying so much attention to his needs.  Now, after that and through my other relationships, I haven't been able to shake the wanting to please other people.  I guess I just got so used to people not caring about me that it feels really weird to be reciving.  I had a good conversation with my friend who I'd been playing with, and he's totally helping me get over it.  He says that me telling him what I need is part of me serving him becuase it means I'm not trying to make him read my mind....  Once I seem to get past this guilt, then I'll have to get past receiving oral sex..... I just can't seem to relax and enjoy that much attention on me.... But that's a story for another time...

Thanks to everyone who shared their thoughts and comments with me!


_____________________________

~Shelly

The lifestyle comes to each differently... always remember that....

(in reply to DarkDreams123)
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RE: Guilt.... - 5/18/2007 12:55:15 AM   
MissOchistic


Posts: 315
Joined: 4/30/2007
Status: offline 		What helps me is just thinking about how happy it makes the giver, the satisfaction they get. This works for me in all walks of life, from Christmas-time to aftercare to taking compliments (which i am still uncomfortable with, lol).

_____________________________



"The amount i care for Thee
is more than two, but less than three."

"Submission is a potlatch."

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RE: Guilt.... - 5/18/2007 2:28:22 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		i have a different and more spiritual view of accepting help or favors.  i believe that if a need is real it offeres an opportunity for someone to gain positive karma.  i'm not sure i can articulate this well.... If a person refuses help or minimizes the help by feeling guilty, then they have deprived another person of their gaining good karma.  In other words, your guilt negates the gift and blocks the giver from gaining positive energy.  That IS selfish.  Just because a person is Dominant doesn't mean that person doesn't feel the same sense of joy in giving as the submissive.  It is a slap in the face to have help or any other gift rejected and guilt is a form of rejection. 
It's not give and take where one gives and the other takes, it's about exchange.  Give and accept, give and receive, give and give.   

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

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RE: Guilt.... - 5/18/2007 5:32:50 AM   
adoracat


Posts: 1779
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

*shrug* It's the same way that the women who can never say no or need to do everything and make everyone else happy are selfish- they think they NEED to do it or it won't get done, or done right, they think they NEED to do it or someone will feel bad, they think they NEED to do it or things won't be right, they think they NEED to do it or they won't be a good person.

It's really all about them.  They take on everyones feelings and choices and outcomes and pile it all onto their own shoulders.  That's pretty selfish and self-centered.

It's also ironic.  But still true.


i'd say i agreed with you....

but the number of times the ill mannered males of this household have literally called me from a sickbed to "do" for them or "find this!" makes me think that in our case tis mistaken.  the household literally DOES fall apart if i'm not here/am incapacitated in any way.

Sir expects me to take better care of his property.  sometimes being pulled between the two sides is hurtful to me.

kitten, who doesnt know how to kick the arses of the unreasonable males.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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