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RE: Installing an ISO program. - 5/21/2007 8:13:12 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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That's what Macs are for.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to stef)

Post #: 41

RE: Installing an ISO program. - 5/21/2007 8:45:20 AM

stef

Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline

Same problem, different zealots (usually).

~stef

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"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 42

RE: Installing an ISO program. - 5/21/2007 11:56:36 AM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

I wish there were, but the cold hard fact is they just don't exist, no matter how many linux zealots screech that "their" OS is better.

You do understand that Microsoft ripped off Linux and modified it to make Vista.

Even Microsoft has made the choice to come over from the Dark Side of the Force.

Sinergy

p.s. On a related note, I wont upgrade from XP to Vista until I am certain that all the software I use has been upgraded to run under Vista and all the bugs worked out.

p.p.s. I have 160Gb on this computer, I will probably dual boot SUSE linux when I have a spare moment.

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to stef)

Post #: 43

RE: Installing an ISO program. - 5/21/2007 12:11:16 PM

stef

Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

You do understand that Microsoft ripped off Linux and modified it to make Vista.

Not that it has fuck-all to do with anything discussed so far in this thread, but by all means, do tell.

~stef

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 44

RE: Installing an ISO program. - 5/21/2007 5:29:32 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

You do understand that Microsoft ripped off Linux and modified it to make Vista.

Not that it has fuck-all to do with anything discussed so far in this thread, but by all means, do tell.

~stef

I was responding to your derogatory comment about linux zealots. Apparently, Microsoft has
decided to become one as well.

I have worked extensively with 5 or more different operating systems in my computer career.

I hate all of them. Same shit, different kernel.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to stef)

Post #: 45

RE: Installing an ISO program. - 5/21/2007 6:56:38 PM

dcnovice

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: minnetar

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelOfGeorgia

well...if you all don't hear from me in a few days...ya know what happened...LOL

"michael screwed up yet another PC"

LOL

please do a complete backup before you do anything - that way you can restore any files you have

minnetar

Good idea!

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

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INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to minnetar)

Post #: 46

RE: Installing an ISO program. - 5/21/2007 8:58:21 PM

stef

Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I was responding to your derogatory comment about linux zealots.

Which derogatory comment was that?

quote:

Apparently, Microsoft has decided to become one as well.

How so? And I'm still waiting to hear how Microsoft "ripped off Linux."

quote:

I have worked extensively with 5 or more different operating systems in my computer career.

I hate all of them. Same shit, different kernel.

That's nice.

~stef

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 47

RE: Installing an ISO program. - 5/21/2007 9:04:05 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I was responding to your derogatory comment about linux zealots.

Which derogatory comment was that?

"linux zealots"

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to stef)

Post #: 48

RE: Installing an ISO program. - 5/21/2007 9:18:24 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

I develop software for a living and am so very tired of this.

Linux in every flavor I've seen is an absolutely horrible OS for anyone but a moderately advanced computer person. It is an ok web server choice if you've got someone who cares to really learn the ins and outs of setting the thing up. The reason it is run on so many ISP's is the fallacious belief that free software equals lower TCO.

The team I'm lead developer for is pretty adept at both Linux and Windows development and it is rare that a server project intended to have versions for both computers isn't finished for Windows far sooner than the Linux project. This is due to the overall lousy state of development tools for Linux. My company has to the best of my knowledge never had anyone request a desktop application for Linux and the one law office that tried to go Linux and use StarOffice instead of MSOffice dropped that after virtually their entire adminstrative staff threatened to quit.

Ultimately it boils down to the FSF and its fellow travelers. Software developed by volunteers isn't completed in a timely fashion and tedious stuff like quality user interface work, minor features or localization/internationalization is not done or not done well. While MS, much as people hate to admit it, has produced a superb office suite and development tools by paying people to do the unpleasant work.

As to the routine claims of security of Linux fans, go find a real computer security guy and see if he thinks if the installed base numbers were reversed if Linux would be more secure.

(in reply to stef)

Post #: 49

RE: Installing an ISO program. - 5/21/2007 9:35:59 PM

stef

Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

"linux zealots"

zealot

2 a : one who is zealous : one who embraces a cause and supports it with vigor and enthusiasm b : one who is carried away by his zeal : a fanatical partisan
synonym see ENTHUSIAST

How is that derogatory? That's exactly what they're doing.

I'm still waiting to hear how Microsoft "ripped off Linux."

And Ken, you're preaching to the choir.

~stef

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 50

RE: Installing an ISO program. - 5/21/2007 9:41:56 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

I'm still waiting to hear how Microsoft "ripped off Linux."

Linux is distributed under the Open Source licensing agreement.

www.opensource.org

I suspect Microsoft will not provide the source for Vista, or the source for any programs running under Vista, or...

Perhaps "ripped off" is a bit harsh. They simply took software somebody else wrote and distributed under the open source, adapted it for their own purposes, and licensed it as a proprietary product.

I dont think anybody is silly enough to try to go after them for legally violating the open source licensing agreement.

Make of that what you will.

As I pointed out, I am not a computer zealot, I hate them all equally.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to stef)

Post #: 51

RE: Installing an ISO program. - 5/21/2007 9:42:21 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

So how about grabbing me a copy of Win2000 Advanced Server. I got twenty bucks.

Oh, wait it is 2007, it would need like 100 updates, forget it.

T

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 52

RE: Installing an ISO program. - 5/21/2007 9:50:26 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

I'm still waiting to hear how Microsoft "ripped off Linux."

Linux is distributed under the Open Source licensing agreement.

www.opensource.org

I suspect Microsoft will not provide the source for Vista, or the source for any programs running under Vista, or...

Perhaps "ripped off" is a bit harsh. They simply took software somebody else wrote and distributed under the open source, adapted it for their own purposes, and licensed it as a proprietary product.

I dont think anybody is silly enough to try to go after them for legally violating the open source licensing agreement.

Make of that what you will.

As I pointed out, I am not a computer zealot, I hate them all equally.

Sinergy

I'm really having trouble with this. Are you claiming MS used Linux for the Vista kernel? No matter what it is do you have a source I could read on the matter?>

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 53

RE: Installing an ISO program. - 5/22/2007 5:18:39 AM

stef

Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

Perhaps "ripped off" is a bit harsh. They simply took software somebody else wrote and distributed under the open source, adapted it for their own purposes, and licensed it as a proprietary product.

Which software?

~stef

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 54

RE: Installing an ISO program. - 5/22/2007 6:53:21 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I develop software for a living and am so very tired of this.

Linux in every flavor I've seen is an absolutely horrible OS for anyone but a moderately advanced computer person.

Explain Ubuntu. Hell, with the inclusion of the Dell/Broadcom wireless drivers into 2.6.20 it's now pretty much a no brainer.

quote:

It is an ok web server choice if you've got someone who cares to really learn the ins and outs of setting the thing up. The reason it is run on so many ISP's is the fallacious belief that free software equals lower TCO.

Yeah, putting in the installer cd is so hard. What's the hassle? Putting files in /var/www ?

quote:

The team I'm lead developer for is pretty adept at both Linux and Windows development and it is rare that a server project intended to have versions for both computers isn't finished for Windows far sooner than the Linux project.

I've never seen a server project targeting both platforms. Either you drink the MSFT Kool-Aid, or you don't.

quote:

This is due to the overall lousy state of development tools for Linux.

LOL. Dude, Eclipse.

quote:

My company has to the best of my knowledge never had anyone request a desktop application for Linux

That's because today, all real applications have moved to the internet.

quote:

and the one law office that tried to go Linux and use StarOffice instead of MSOffice dropped that after virtually their entire adminstrative staff threatened to quit.

Most law offices I see are still limping along with WordPerfect, but I suppose if you run an office, and are such a wimp you can't tell people what they're going to do, then that's an administration issue.

...

quote:

As to the routine claims of security of Linux fans, go find a real computer security guy and see if he thinks if the installed base numbers were reversed if Linux would be more secure.

25 years of IT and Financial Auditing experience qualifies me as a "real computer security guy".

BULLSHIT.

You can't "Bolt On" security. If you try, you end up with Vista.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 55

RE: Installing an ISO program. - 5/22/2007 8:49:25 AM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I'm really having trouble with this. Are you claiming MS used Linux for the Vista kernel? No matter what it is do you have a source I could read on the matter?>

I will have to go back and figure out where I read this.

I thought it was interesting at the time, but the person made the point that Vista is based around a Linux derived kernel.

When I find the source for it I will post it.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 56

RE: Installing an ISO program. - 5/22/2007 9:00:12 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

Nah, it's that Vista is following WAY BEHIND on the UI research and development going on with Linux machines.

The whole Compviz v. Beryl fork, recombination shows the benefits of having competing technologies on the market.

Vista Aero effects? Too Little, Too Late, and it's going to be a LONG SIX YEARS before it gets any better.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 57

RE: Installing an ISO program. - 5/22/2007 9:37:24 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

Ubuntu is a nice try but still falls short of the goal. The package structure is at best confusing at worst it encourages illegal activity.

We produce a couple of cross platform server apps every year. Plenty of vendors want software they can sell to anyone regardless of their choice of ISP's or what OS their web server runs.

Eclipse? No thanks. It's best as a Java development tool and for that I still prefer NetBeans. For C++, which is what I write most server software in, it is weak and missing needed functionality.

Actually everything isn't being done on the web. A lot of the financial stuff we do still runs on the desktop even when it gets data over the web. We just finished converting a derivatives fund's management tool from a very slow server app to a desktop app that downloaded the raw data but handled most of the number crunching locally for a rather significant performance boost.

I don't know what law office you've seen but in Chicago and New York where I've consulted on IT management for several different major partnerships as well as lots of smaller shops I haven't seen WP in at least 7 or 8 years. MS Word is all I ever see. The small office, 3 partners, 5 or so associates and 25 or 30 admin staff, that the senior partner though Linux/StarOffice would save him some money was in no position to replace 20 of its paralegals, researchers and secretaries. In Chicago at least quality paralegals and legal secretaries can change jobs easily and if the word gets around that most of your staff quit I doubt you're going to have a very easy time finding replacements at anywhere near the same pay.

I truly don't know what claims you're making in regards to security. It is a fact that security breaches are found in Linux distros with regularity. In the one area where Linux has a significant chunk of the installed base, web servers, security failures are quite common place. Is there any reason to believe that things would be better if every desktop ran Linux? No. Every hacker out there would be working on breaking the OS and they would inevitably succeed.

If you don't like Windows or Microsoft fine but don't make stuff up to support your position.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 58

RE: Installing an ISO program. - 5/22/2007 9:50:50 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Ubuntu is a nice try but still falls short of the goal. The package structure is at best confusing at worst it encourages illegal activity.

If the goal is "Insert CD, Boot into O/S installer, answer questions, walk away" I'm not sure exactly how Ubuntu is falling short.

Yeah, being able to query the package manager for the location and status of every file installed in the package REALLY adds to the confusion.

quote:

We produce a couple of cross platform server apps every year. Plenty of vendors want software they can sell to anyone regardless of their choice of ISP's or what OS their web server runs.

Perl.

quote:

Eclipse? No thanks. It's best as a Java development tool

Old News. It's got plugins for just about everything.

quote:

and for that I still prefer NetBeans. For C++, which is what I write most server software in, it is weak and missing needed functionality.

Such as?

quote:

Actually everything isn't being done on the web.

It is unless you've either been asleep the past decade OR drink the MSFT kool-aide.

But MSFT never really *did* ever "Get It", did they?

quote:

A lot of the financial stuff we do still runs on the desktop even when it gets data over the web. We just finished converting a derivatives fund's management tool from a very slow server app to a desktop app that downloaded the raw data but handled most of the number crunching locally for a rather significant performance boost.

Should have fixed the problem, rather than written a new app. But hey, whatever the salesman can drum up, eh?

quote:

I don't know what law office you've seen but in Chicago and New York where I've consulted on IT management for several different major partnerships as well as lots of smaller shops I haven't seen WP in at least 7 or 8 years. MS Word is all I ever see.

Well, then Your Mileage Varies.

quote:

I truly don't know what claims you're making in regards to security.

Microsoft Windows was DESIGNED broken, with respect to both Multiuser security and Network security.

You can NEVER bolt-on enough aftermarket code to fix those design flaws.

And I ain't making this up.

If someone has a limited skill-set, and is only comfortable with Microsoft's Training Wheels, and Microsoft's Kool-Aide, then that's their problem, not mine.

There's a reason the NSA did SELINUX extensions to Linux and not Windows.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 59

RE: Installing an ISO program. - 5/22/2007 9:57:26 AM

michaelOfGeorgia

Posts: 4253
Status: offline

problem solved...program installed...nothing more to say.

thanks for your help people. really.

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Are we having fun, yet?

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 60

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