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RE: Amnesty For Criminals Passed in the Senate - 5/18/2007 8:35:50 AM   
farglebargle


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From: Albany, NY
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Oh, and another thing.

ANY REAL CONSERVATIVE HATES VISAS.

Useless waste of time, money, and resources.

COMPLETELY POINTLESS.

No REAL CONSERVATIVE believes we should waste the money issuing, tracking, etc. this POINTLESS DOCUMENTATION which BRINGS ***NO*** VALUE TO ANYTHING.

VISAS are what 3rd world dictatorships use to 1) Extort Money From Visitors ( Who SHOULDN'T be wasting it on The Federal Government Revenue, they SHOULD be spending it! and 2) Restrict and Oppress the RIGHT OF LIBERTY.



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 5/18/2007 8:37:09 AM >


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Amnesty For Criminals Passed in the Senate - 5/18/2007 10:29:06 AM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
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Merc, wouldn't that be the damndest thing.
The Dems in power for two years, they vote for this pos and out after two years! lol

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Amnesty For Criminals Passed in the Senate - 5/18/2007 11:16:31 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Merc, wouldn't that be the damndest thing.
The Dems in power for two years, they vote for this pos and out after two years! lol

Popeye,
This issue really should have no relevance to political party affiliation. It is a beacon to illustrate the con perpetrated on the citizens of the US. It may have been the hidden goal and purpose of everything that's happened politically over the past 6 years of the Bush Administration. The progression of events and the logic of the result speaks to a 'conspiracy'.

What else can explain the support and enthusiasm for this Bill by the Democrats as a party and the individuals who spoke with nothing but disdain for this President. I know most voters, political party pundits, philosophical advocates, and head boppers are blind to facts, and personal hypocrisy; but I find it incredible how many of the President Bush haters are now lined up behind him on his self professed 'legacy'.

The Bill will end up being a neutral issue. Its a 'good news/bad news' situation. The 'good' is that it is now obvious that there is no distinction between the parties. The 'bad' is that someone the 'good' will be lost with each party having the ability to blame the other.

The Republicans come back home to campaign and say they didn't want to pass the bill, but voted for it because a Republican President wanted it. The Democrats can point to the same. Add the finger pointing regarding which party has the majority and the core issue will be lost.

Corporate profits are at the core. The campaign funding laws currently on the books eliminate the possibility of any "normal" citizen competing for public office. A Corporate sponsor is more necessary for a politician than it is for a 'amateur' Olympic athlete.

A few of my friends have been exchanging emails coming up with jobs that will see deflated salaries as a result of 12 million added to the national manual labor, and entry level workforce. Currently in CA virtually no one is paid minimum wage. Maybe the fast food industry starts that way, but few others. After this goes into effect, who is going to pay more than minimum wage for entry level positions?

Manufacturing
Trucking
Grocery clerks
Warehouse
Food Service
Hotel Workers
Construction Workers
Gardeners
Maintenance Workers

Add a bit of training and the list expands:
Customer Service
Phone Call Centers (A Spanish accent may replace the Indian one you hear now)
Retail Sales
Telemarketer

Tell you what - I'm going against personal 'best interest' fighting this Bill. I should be right next to Senator Kennedy and President Bush happy to know that any Corporation I've invested in, manage, or use, has at least two generations of cheap labor to use; maybe more if family tail is extended.

You also have to consider the next wave of illegals who will replace this batch. Anyone who takes the time can read exactly the same promises given in 1986 regarding the last amnesty. Those enforcement provisions ended up being lip service. Why should these be any different? There will be many to follow and many hear who will still be "underground". Those getting into the program will get the minimum wage, but those that don't want to pay the $5,000 fee, or taxes, or want the freedom to pass over the border to make some money, but want to reside in their home country; will still be happy with $5/hour cash. I doubt the 'day worker' tents and shacks throughout CA will disappear.

Does anyone thing there will be a mass conversion to legality just because its possible?

The Stock Market should hit 15,000 if this becomes law.

(in reply to popeye1250)
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RE: Amnesty For Criminals Passed in the Senate - 5/18/2007 11:23:11 AM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
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Merc, yes, that's true about party affiliation.
I'd expect Democrats to vote against this pos just as I would Republicans.
It just seems like Bush is "setting up" the Dems on this, what does he care, he's gone in 2008 anyway.

"This Bill will give amnesty to 1.1 to 1.3 million illegal aliens.
We shall secure the borders henseforth.
We will never bring up an Amnesty Bill again."
    Ted Kennedy  1986

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 5/18/2007 12:20:35 PM >

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Amnesty For Criminals Passed in the Senate - 5/18/2007 11:57:21 AM   
Real0ne


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Another right on the target and i mean dead center on target excellent Merc post!

i was thinking about this a bit more too and there are far reaching implications here that go behind the "obvious" scenes.   The muddy place where i manage to seem to spend most of my time and see things at a slightly different angle than what i sense most look at.

Your point is well directed, 1 million calculated, 2 million actual, now 12 million, a short war now 5 years into it,  wmds oops none found and i could fill cm's database with examples of them call red herrings "green paradise" and funny as it seems the greater majority of people will actually see it as green too.

Nothing is what it seems!  We have growing examples all around us.

Tommorow its "may as well annex mexico" since they are all here, or the way we are going be annexed by mexico i really do not see much difference.

I cannot tell you how it totally fries my ass what is going on with that and this country.   This is robbing our kids of the ability to make a few bucks in the high school years and learning how to function in society.

Rather than being forced to ship the work to mexico corps can just hire them here direct from within this country and as you pointed out "unmonitored" and once again the burden is also put on none other than??? you got it *the tax payer*.

It shifts all the profits to the corporations and all the burdens to *us*, we the people!

So there we have it, it comes right back down to the tax payer!  Which of course takes us back to the feds as in reserve and bankers etc etc etc.

The corporations are getting "no strings attached" cheap labor and the tax payer will in the end pay the bill for all the services these people will "consume" in the mean time when the layoffs come around.

Do we kick them to the curb if they are sick?  NO!!  and that is not to suggest we should but make to a point, it then drives our costs up in medical and other areas, not to mention increased crime, insurance etc etc.

i am sure you heard me rant about the "unlawfull" taxation as a result of wilson and "congress" running through the 16th amendment, or at least they supposedly ran it through.

Could it be that what we see today is the way this government has always operated and only now with mass communication, video cameras etc it is now becoming apparent what has really been going on?

i mean do we not have to ask ourselves the question: "how can this happen in america"?   Could it be this is how they got through so much legislation that violates our constitution or at a minimum skirts that knifes edge?

i think we all know they did after all *ignore* the borders regardless of the numerous protests and in fact you must be aware that they even put gaurds on the borders to insure they remained open!

Then when we look backwards they say oops!   Favorite terms, "coincidence", "we were looking the other way", "we simply do not have the man power". " well there is no interagency jurisdiction", "we need to create a *new* border security agency",  "our funds were cut and we were unable to deal with it "...

Is it only me or is this a never ending BROKEN RECORD in government?  Is there a picture of exponentially growing government that we the ignorant are willingly paying for?

The whole point of the federal government not being able to collect unapportioned taxes is to prevent misuse of tax money and growing government and is that not the exact problem that we are plagued with today. 

Here is what i see people failing to corectly connect:  Constitutionally companies would have to raise prices as this would be "their" responsibility to pay, not ours, and the war would be their tax to pay also.  "but they will just raise prices and hit us up anyway" is what i hear but what is not being taken into consideration that is crucial here: is then if these corporations insisted on being stoopid and raised prices we have the coice NOT to buy their product (which give us the final say!!!) because once they resort to inappropriate pricing the doors have now been opened for the little guys to get a foot hold in the market to drive those prices back down.  The essence of a free market economy.  (built in checks and balances)  We do not have that in our present government!

The governemnt used to have to "ask" the american people if corporate money was not enough for a war.

For whatever reason, or at least one i cannot understand people do not make the connection how we are being raped and raped and raped into poverty through this policy of taxation, and MO of legislation resulting in people like myself claiming it is a conspiracy. (it is!)

i do not want to hijack your thread here man but this was a prime opportunity to make the point how one seemingly insignificant change in our constitution as in the 16th can literally bring this country to its knees.  

I do hope this serves as an example of "how it is done" in government and i hope people get wise and do something about it instead of chasing red herrings and our tails while the tyrants feed us to the buzzards.

Anyway i agree with your post, this border issue is representative of much larger problems in government that has become an epidemic in this country and we need to do something about it.  i feel we, (all americans) should be on the phone to bitch about "anything" unconstitutional to our senators by self imposed mandate at least once a day for the rest of our lives till the phone company can no longer support all the calls.

This amnesty absolutely cannot be allowed to go through!  Mkaing the illegal legal... sheesh 

I dont want to drag thjis thread anywhere so when you all get a chance and go looking for another thread, check out my latest find the jfk thread here as i think it directly applies to this one (i even found the text but the vid is much better):

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1019952/tm.htm


anyway my 2 cents










_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Amnesty For Criminals Passed in the Senate - 5/18/2007 12:00:58 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Merc, wouldn't that be the damndest thing.
The Dems in power for two years, they vote for this pos and out after two years! lol


i do not see it happening, they will vote part of it out best case but the 2 parties always leave behind a residual if you know what i mean


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Amnesty For Criminals Passed in the Senate - 5/18/2007 12:03:28 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

"This Bill will give amnesty to 1.1 to 1.3 illegal aliens.
We shall secure the borders henceforth.
We will never bring up an Amnesty Bill again."
    Ted Kennedy  1986


That is a great quote popeye. Has anyone highlighted it yet and asked him about it? My guess is that he says this isn't 'amnesty' right?

Thanks - I'm going to pass this on.

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Amnesty For Criminals Passed in the Senate - 5/18/2007 12:08:59 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:


"This Bill will give amnesty to 1.1 to 1.3 illegal aliens.


What the hell is 1.1 or 1.3 illegal aliens?

Adding a 3rd arm for ski-boxing?

Sinergy

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"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Amnesty For Criminals Passed in the Senate - 5/18/2007 12:11:14 PM   
mnottertail


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different versions of the bill?

Sen Foghorn Leghorn

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Amnesty For Criminals Passed in the Senate - 5/18/2007 12:11:32 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

"This Bill will give amnesty to 1.1 to 1.3 illegal aliens.
We shall secure the borders henceforth.
We will never bring up an Amnesty Bill again."
   Ted Kennedy  1986


That is a great quote popeye. Has anyone highlighted it yet and asked him about it? My guess is that he says this isn't 'amnesty' right?

Thanks - I'm going to pass this on.


Realone, great post!
Copy that and print it and send it to your Senators and Congressman today!

Merc, of course it's not "Amnesty" Kennedy is holding the lipstick and Bush is holding the Pig!
Great post above as well!
I've tried 3 times today and still can't get through to Senator Lindsey Graham's office!
Keep those phone calls going!

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Amnesty For Criminals Passed in the Senate - 5/18/2007 12:11:36 PM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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shorthand for million

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Amnesty For Criminals Passed in the Senate - 5/18/2007 12:41:43 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:


"This Bill will give amnesty to 1.1 to 1.3 illegal aliens.


What the hell is 1.1 or 1.3 illegal aliens?

Adding a 3rd arm for ski-boxing?

Sinergy


Sinergy, I went back and edited it.

I'm listening to The Howie Carr Show out of Boston, Mass on wrko 680-am.
Howie has a poll everyday.
Today he asks; "Who's tougher on immigration, Guliani, McCain, or Romney?"
results so far Mitt Romney 91%
                   Rudy Guliani  9%
                    John McCain 0%
Now he's talking to Congressman Stephen King from Iowa and the Congressman said that illigal aliens now kill 25 Americans each day in crimes and DUI accidents.
Earlier Howie was reading from interviews in the N.Y. Post with illegal aliens and they're saying that they're not going to pay the $5,000 fine and they're not going to go back to their own countries to wait for any visas.
Congressman King said his offices have had to take staff off of other duties just to answer phones.

LOLOL, Howie just said that with all this Amnesty stuff going on McCain and Guliani are now "Political Corpses."
"Guliani has been in Wall Street's satchel for ten years!"

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 5/18/2007 1:26:01 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Amnesty For Criminals Passed in the Senate - 5/18/2007 1:21:23 PM   
cyberdude611


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This thing is starting to lose support. I contacted my Senator today, who is a Democrat, and his office informed me that he does not support this bill as-is.

And Nancy Pelosi said today that she will not even bring this bill to a vote in the House unless at least 70 Republicans sign on to support it.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Amnesty For Criminals Passed in the Senate - 5/18/2007 1:29:02 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

This thing is starting to lose support. I contacted my Senator today, who is a Democrat, and his office informed me that he does not support this bill as-is.

And Nancy Pelosi said today that she will not even bring this bill to a vote in the House unless at least 70 Republicans sign on to support it.


I just tried for a fourth time to get through to Sen. Lindsey Graham's office!
Busy, Busy, Busy!  202 224-5972
Man, people calling into Howie Carr's show are *PISSED*!!!

Five times now, still busy!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 5/18/2007 1:59:16 PM >

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RE: Amnesty For Criminals Passed in the Senate - 5/18/2007 2:23:10 PM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
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Cyberdude, I managed to get through to one of Senator Sununu's (N.H.) staffers briefly who I know (Jennifer) and she said that the phones were ringing off the hook from the time they got into the office this morning! (I could hear them ringing n the background!)
"Some people were swearing at me they're so mad about this!"
I told her to wait until next week!
Monday afternoon I'll be at Senator Graham's office down in Mount Pleasant.
If anyone on this site who lives in S. Carolina would care to join me the address is; 530 Johnnie Dodds Blvd   suite 202
                      Mount Pleasant, S.C.        and their phone number is  843-849-3887
I'll be there between 2 and 3 pm wearing a ball cap with "U.S. Coast Guard" on it.
                    

(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Amnesty For Criminals Passed in the Senate - 5/18/2007 4:21:59 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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Economic Lesson:
quote:

In the first major study to quantify the hidden costs of immigration, Heritage analysts Robert Rector, Christine Kim and Shanea Watkins crunched the numbers and found that a typical household headed by an unskilled worker lacking the equivalent of a high school diploma earns $20,564 and pays $9,689 in taxes per year on average. But the same household collects $32,138 in direct and means-tested government benefits. Over 50 years, that adds up to $1.3 million per household — a largely hidden, but dramatic transfer of wealth from U.S. taxpayers. Source: http://www.examiner.com/a-675919~America_can_ill_afford_immigrant_labor.html  

History Lesson:
quote:

There have been seven illegal alien amnesties passed into law since 1986:
·The 1986 Immigration and Reform Control Act blanket amnesty for an estimated 2.7 million illegal aliens
·1994: The "Section 245(i)" temporary rolling amnesty for 578,000 illegal aliens
·1997: Extension of the Section 245(i) amnesty
·1997: The Nicaraguan Adjustment and Central American Relief Act for nearly one million illegal aliens from Central America
·1998: The Haitian Refugee Immigration Fairness Act amnesty for 125,000 illegal aliens from Haiti
·2000: Extension of amnesty for some 400,000 illegal aliens who claimed eligibility under the 1986 act
·2000: The Legal Immigration Family Equity Act, which included a restoration of the rolling Section 245(i) amnesty for 900,000 illegal aliens]
Guess what? None –not one—of those amnesties was associated with a decline in illegal immigration. On the contrary, the number of illegal aliens in the U.S. has tripled since President Reagan signed the first amnesty in 1986. The total effect of the amnesties was even larger because relatives later joined amnesty recipients, and this number was multiplied by an unknown number of children born to amnesty recipients who then acquired automatic US citizenship.
And as I've noted before, there is no such thing as a "temporary" amnesty
Source: http://michellemalkin.com/archives/007554.htm 

(in reply to popeye1250)
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RE: Amnesty For Criminals Passed in the Senate - 5/19/2007 8:52:01 AM   
Real0ne


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yup i couldnt agree more!


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Amnesty For Criminals Passed in the Senate - 5/19/2007 10:32:00 AM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
I think we really do need to stop all immigration for at least ten years.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Amnesty For Criminals Passed in the Senate - 5/21/2007 9:03:07 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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This weekend's 'talking head' programs were all discussing this issue. Often the defenders of this Bill, from both sides of the political aisle, referenced opinion polls saying that the majority of US citizens favored this proposal. Has anyone met any? I also find that those who waited in line and followed the rules to obtain citizenship are most vocal against this measure. It seems only the criminals employing those illegally in this country and the politicians whose campaigns are financed by the Corporations are in support.

Apparently not the majority in South Carolina. Its obvious that the reason this Bill is being presented this year is that our politicians are assuming that by next November the electorate will have forgotten.  

quote:

They cheered as presidential candidate Romney told them: “One simple rule: No amnesty.”
During his speech and before his remarks, Romney said a proposed new visa for immigrants amounts to amnesty if it can be renewed indefinitely.
“If that’s not a form of amnesty, I don’t know what is,” Romney said. “I think we should not call it the ‘Z visa,’ we should call it the ‘A visa’ because it’s amnesty and that’s what it stands for.”
And the crowd booed Graham, R-S.C., when he said he had worked with U.S. Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., on the immigration legislation.
“It’s the best bill I think we can get to President Bush,” Graham said as some in the crowd shouted “No!”
Graham was cheered earlier in his speech when he talked about the war in Iraq.
“Immigration got booed,” Graham said afterward. “It’s an emotional topic. People are mad.” Source: http://www.thestate.com/154/v-print/story/69054.html

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Amnesty For Criminals Passed in the Senate - 5/21/2007 9:45:05 AM   
LightHeartedMaam


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There might be an impact until the quality of the work begins to show.

I've hired cement workers and they laid down the cement nicely but their idea of "decorative tile" was a plastic trip.  I've gone through 5 yard crews trying to find one that didn't destroy the yards. I settled on a Anglo owner/operator of a business that is 18 yrs in business with English speaking employees.

It's been my experience has been that these "hard working people that do the jobs no one else does" have no more skill than a 10 yr old mowing lawns on the weekend and they want the same pay as a professional. 

And yes, I'm happy to pay more for this  business and their results.

_____________________________

Now that I'm older, I thought it was great that it seems I have more patience. Turns out, that I just don't give a sh*t.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 60
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