Why does this continue?

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stella40 -> Why does this continue? (5/17/2007 6:06:11 PM)
Many women in the BDSM community are often objectified specifically for sexual reasons. Basically some men see BDSM as a right of passage or an alternative 'kinky' way to have sex with a woman and nothing more. On the Internet women often get approached in a manner that you wouldn't even see during negotiations to buy a horse or a cow. What do you look like? What equipment have you got? Do you wear heels and corsets? Will you spank me? I want you to piss into my mouth. I'm going to spank you hard. Are you sexy? This is not news. It's been this way for many years, perhaps even before the Internet. Almost all women, whether dominant or submissive, have been approached in this manner, they have been lied to, exploited, cheated, let down and even abused. But not just by men, and they are not the only victims. Many men, both dominant and submissive also have their share of bad experiences. However don't assume that just because a woman is into BDSM that she's 'kinky' and does it because she's up for sexual experiences there and then. Oh Mistress! Pleeeaaasseee! I need spanking! I want to be whipped! I will be your 24/7/365 slave, footstool, dogsbody and personal servant. Do me now! Who thinks like this? Maybe the Internet trolls, various sociopaths and sad, lonely, dysfunctional people but not the real and genuine people in the BDSM community. We understand that to get a vanilla date with a woman she needs to be wooed, you have to make the effort, take the time and hope for the best. And women who are into BDSM are no different. They're still women. "Why aren't any female subs replying to me?" "I can't find a Mistress." You can find such topic headings for postings on forums on any BDSM website. It seems some people still don't get the picture. "What do women want?" they ask. Here are some suggestions, and readers reading this posting may wish to add their own: 1. Women are tired of those who assume that they are up for BDSM play and sex anytime anywhere. Does this mean they are not really into play or are not sexual? No. It just means they're not desperate. 2. Women are tired of being treated as unpaid Pro-Dommes and Pro-subs who you can talk to in any sleazy way you want to. 3. Women are tired of those who assume that they have no needs, feelings, desires or worse, that you don't have to respect them because they are into BDSM and therefore kinky.

OsideGirl -> RE: Why does this continue? (5/17/2007 6:11:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stella40 However don't assume that just because a woman is into BDSM that she's 'kinky' BDSM = Bondage, Discipline, Sado-Masochism. I would define that as kinky.

Faramir -> RE: Why does this continue? (5/17/2007 6:14:18 PM)
And men are sick of gender essentialized bitching. For every carp and bitch you have about men, for every complaint about how "men are this way," another person can come back with an equally gender essentialist 'women are this way" line of crap. I think after your earlier thread comparing doms to sociopaths, you've made your man-hating evident. Look, sorry you have a horrible, bitchy, hateful axe to grind against a gender. That puts you in the same category with other racist, genderist individuals who instead of seeing other human beings, sees a group to Other and deinigrate. We are human beings, each individual, and bitching about "men" is just that: ugly, ugly bitching.

juliaoceania -> RE: Why does this continue? (5/17/2007 6:15:02 PM)
quote: 1. Women are tired of those who assume that they are up for BDSM play and sex anytime anywhere. Does this mean they are not really into play or are not sexual? No. It just means they're not desperate. Some of us ARE desperate Some of us like to be talked to in the way that you outlined in your post even though we are not desperate. quote: 2. Women are tired of being treated as unpaid Pro-Dommes and Pro-subs who you can talk to in any sleazy way you want to. Some women do like it, and some of them respond to wanker type emails. If a man sends out 1000s of emails, he might hit pay dirt and find someone who is into having strangers pee in her mouth for free. quote: 3. Women are tired of those who assume that they have no needs, feelings, desires or worse, that you don't have to respect them because they are into BDSM and therefore kinky. Some women (I can think of some that post here for example) do not want their "needs" addressed. You made a lot of universal statements here. Many of us are kinky and that was why we got into this. Some of us are into bedroom submission. And that is ok. I am often amused by certain emails I get. I used to be annoyed by it. I now realize people are using my profile to get their kink on.. Go Them! If I get tired enough of it I know how to hide my profile. What I will not do is think that everyone is like me and wants what I do.. that would be blantantly inconsistent with reality. You are right about one thing. If a guy desires to find a submissive, the approach you outlined is probably flawed, but many women like being objectified too. It is their kink, and their kink is just as valid as your relationship style.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Why does this continue? (5/17/2007 6:16:30 PM)
While I don't agree with Faramirs strong hard nosed positioning here- you do seem to be eyeing some axes across the room very carefully and wondering what it would be like to start sharpening them. Guys do what they do- some of them are very successful at it-. read all the posts we have on subs bitching how they got "screwed over" or how confused they are because they got told they "aren't really a sub." Obviously their methods ARE working on a lot of people. So why should they change them?

OsideGirl -> RE: Why does this continue? (5/17/2007 6:19:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross Guys do what they do- some of them are very successful at it-. read all the posts we have on subs bitching how they got "screwed over" or how confused they are because they got told they "aren't really a sub." Obviously their methods ARE working on a lot of people. So why should they change them? That was my thought. Because some women let them.

juliaoceania -> RE: Why does this continue? (5/17/2007 6:21:08 PM)
quote: That was my thought. Because some women let them. Not just "let" them, but are active participants that enjoy it. We are not victims here

robertolapiedra -> RE: Why does this continue? (5/17/2007 6:26:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: That was my thought. Because some women let them. Not just "let" them, but are active participants that enjoy it. We are not victims here Hello juliaoceania. No victims, only 'survivors' right? RL.

sweetnurseBBW -> RE: Why does this continue? (5/17/2007 6:31:19 PM)
Alot of people do want just kinky casual sex. Some in this lifestyle just want a casual relationship. Does that make it wrong? No, maybe in your world it does. There are many dysfunctional people in this lifestyle as the vanilla world. Everyone has there motivations and needs. it doesn't make it wrong because someone doesn't want the same things as you do.

juliaoceania -> RE: Why does this continue? (5/17/2007 6:31:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: robertolapiedra quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: That was my thought. Because some women let them. Not just "let" them, but are active participants that enjoy it. We are not victims here Hello juliaoceania. No victims, only 'survivors' right? RL. Some of us are survivors. I definitely do not think it takes a lot of skill to survive the occasional "I want to cum in your hair while you sit on the toilet and sing The Star Spangled Banner" emails. I know where the delete button is, and if it got to me that bad I would not put a profile on a site such as this. I also know for a fact that somewhere some submissive has exactly that fetish[:D], it just isn't mine.

robertolapiedra -> RE: Why does this continue? (5/17/2007 6:32:36 PM)
Hello stella40. This is the BDSM jungle. If you went in a real jungle you would complain about bugs,snakes, predators or would you be able to see wild orchids, giant trees, lavish vegetation, rare exotic birds etc? RL

Einzelganger -> RE: Why does this continue? (5/17/2007 6:36:09 PM)
Don't forget the so-called 'money mistresses' who PM subs every day with no intention other than stealing their hard-earned money. I have PM's in my inbox very regularly in this manner. The block/ignore button is a wonderful thing. Perhaps what you're seeing is more of an uneducated, vanilla view of the lifestyle. "Oh, those kinky people will do anything for wild, crazy sex!" It's not just men that think this way, it's a complete stereotype. You should hear some things I've heard vanilla women say about 'those dominatrixes' and 'those slave guys'. It's nothing short of comical. Again, just my $0.02... -Einzelgänger

mp072004 -> RE: Why does this continue? (5/17/2007 6:52:48 PM)
I would argue that there are too many people with bad manners and poor social skills in the general population. Stella40, I would echo one of your points, while generalizing it to all genders: people who do BDSM are not significantly different--they are still people. Thus, just as there are too many unmannerly people generally, there are too many people with bad manners and poor social skills in the BDSM community. A number of those people are men, and a number of them are women. Thankfully, just as in the general population, while there are rude people, there are many polite people as well. What do women want? I think it is true that women, like people generally, don't particularly like for special assumptions to be made about them. One pet peeve of mine is the assumption that I want romantic expressions of emotional intimacy. In the kinds of relationships for which I'm seeking partners online, I don't particularly want to be wooed as one would woo a lover. Precision and organization (in thought and deed) are much more likely to turn my head than are expressions of passion or of feelings.

minnetar -> RE: Why does this continue? (5/17/2007 7:07:05 PM)
Are you struggling right now with something? Just curious. minnetar

pinksugarsub -> RE: Why does this continue? (5/17/2007 7:07:36 PM)
What mp said.

sweetnurseBBW -> RE: Why does this continue? (5/17/2007 7:08:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mp072004 I would argue that there are too many people with bad manners and poor social skills in the general population. Stella40, I would echo one of your points, while generalizing it to all genders: people who do BDSM are not significantly different--they are still people. I agree. Why would someone expect something different just because they are in the lifestyle?

smcontrol -> RE: Why does this continue? (5/17/2007 7:21:03 PM)
I have yet to learn how any message in my inbox is anything but one second click of the delete key minor inconvenience. A perfect stranger tells a girl she isn't a "real" submissive and she gets confused? Please! Suddenly the women who are interested in TPE and D/s have become brain dead, emotional train wrecks whose life can be shattered by a one line email? Of course someone will tell me that I shouldn't lump all of the girls into the same moronic slot as that bit of sterotyping is reserved for Men, Dom's, and the ever popular Dom Wannabes. I have read so many submissive's women's profiles lately who start with a half page rant of the hell that is their lives because of the hundreds and thousands (surely no one would complain about a few dozen idiot grams in their inbox on a site where how to drink piss is seriously discussed would they?) emails they receive from married men who insist she be bi (despite her opion she is actually a heterosexual) with the other ten or fifteen other slaves who the man will be keeping as a harem. (No MARRIED MEN, I'm NOT BI, and I WONT DO POLY seem to all need capitalization in these profiles). My NEW favorite was found during a recent round of profile surfing where I learned that for a number of women the incorrect use of your and you're is so horrible that all offending Emails with this English 101 faux pax will be INSTANTLY DELETED. Of course when realizing they could be instantly deleted it was a little harder to appreciate the trama the poor girl was being subjected to... So my response to Why does this continue? is to suggest you just get over it already.

SimplyMichael -> RE: Why does this continue? (5/17/2007 7:22:34 PM)
You wouldn't happen to be related to Ross would you? Perhaps his sister?

stella40 -> RE: Why does this continue? (5/17/2007 7:36:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Faramir And men are sick of gender essentialized bitching. For every carp and bitch you have about men, for every complaint about how "men are this way," another person can come back with an equally gender essentialist 'women are this way" line of crap. I'm taking part in a forum, and through this presenting an opinion so as to provoke thought and further discussion. This, as far as I can see, can only happen if other people have different opinions. If you go back and reading my posting again, you'll see I qualified my generalisation with the word 'some'. I'm not carping or bitching, just putting across a perhaps controversial viewpoint. Yes of course someone can come back with an opposing or if you prefer 'gender essentialist' 'women are this way' viewpoint. That is partly my intention. It brings the problem out into the open so people can discuss it and add their own opinions, viewpoints and thoughts, which may or may not necessarily agree with mine. quote: ORIGINAL: Faramir I think after your earlier thread comparing doms to sociopaths, you've made your man-hating evident. Have I? Go back and read what I wrote there. I was looking for information, not looking to express a viewpoint. However from your response on that thread I realised I might have touched upon a subject which is particularly sensitive to you. I'm sorry it's upset you so much, it wasn't my intention. quote: ORIGINAL: Faramir Look, sorry you have a horrible, bitchy, hateful axe to grind against a gender. That puts you in the same category with other racist, genderist individuals who instead of seeing other human beings, sees a group to Other and deinigrate. Have I now? And is this your knowledge or your impression? Because the way you're presenting it, you appear to be presenting it as knowledge. You do not know me, I don't know you, and I'm sorry but personal attack is not a valid form of argument. quote: ORIGINAL: Faramir We are human beings, each individual, and bitching about "men" is just that: ugly, ugly bitching. I agree with the 'we are human beings, each individual' bit that you wrote 100%. If you want to see what I wrote as bitching, fine, please feel free to do so. It's your opinion, you are an individual like me, your opinion is equally valid. However I maintain that I'm presenting a specific viewpoint in order to provoke thought and discussion through people not agreeing with me and posting different opinions. It's a forum on the Internet, something I do for amusement, nothing more than this. If you want to label me as a man-hater then do so, be my guest. But consider that your label says more about you than it does about me. I wish you well.

pinksugarsub -> RE: Why does this continue? (5/17/2007 8:04:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: smcontrol I have yet to learn how any message in my inbox is anything but one second click of the delete key minor inconvenience. A perfect stranger tells a girl she isn't a "real" submissive and she gets confused? Please! Suddenly the women who are interested in TPE and D/s have become brain dead, emotional train wrecks whose life can be shattered by a one line email? Of course someone will tell me that I shouldn't lump all of the girls into the same moronic slot as that bit of sterotyping is reserved for Men, Dom's, and the ever popular Dom Wannabes. I have read so many submissive's women's profiles lately who start with a half page rant of the hell that is their lives because of the hundreds and thousands (surely no one would complain about a few dozen idiot grams in their inbox on a site where how to drink piss is seriously discussed would they?) emails they receive from married men who insist she be bi (despite her opion she is actually a heterosexual) with the other ten or fifteen other slaves who the man will be keeping as a harem. (No MARRIED MEN, I'm NOT BI, and I WONT DO POLY seem to all need capitalization in these profiles). My NEW favorite was found during a recent round of profile surfing where I learned that for a number of women the incorrect use of your and you're is so horrible that all offending Emails with this English 101 faux pax will be INSTANTLY DELETED. Of course when realizing they could be instantly deleted it was a little harder to appreciate the trama the poor girl was being subjected to... So my response to Why does this continue? is to suggest you just get over it already. Man, i have wanted to say this for awhile. i only see Dom profiles but crickey; how can a Man claim to be a Dom and actually write in His prrofile or journal some whhhiiinnnneee (usually that no subbie responds to His emails). TY for saying it better than i could smcontrol.

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