quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveaurora
I am afraid though, I am having some difficulty wrapping my brain around this.    I do agree that it takes a very strong person to submit to another, but I can't help but think that doing so, is a sign of weakness.    

Perhaps I am a weak person, and that is why I am struggling with the concept.     I don't know what it is, I can't put my finger on it.    

I will keep working on it though.  
a~

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveaurora

Someone made a comment in another thread about feeling weak when they submit.   
 
Do you see submission as a weakness?   
 
I often do, and feel that if I need control, then I must be weak.    So consequently, I feel "less than" someone who doesn't need control.  
 
Thoughts?
 

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella40

I don't look upon submission, or even dominance, in terms of strength or weakness, I don't feel that personal strength or lack of it has anything to do with being dominant or submissive. We are all people, we are all individuals, strong people have weaknesses and weak people have strengths.

The way I see it is submission = exchange, and domination = exchange. For both you need some sort of interaction.

Being dominant or submissive is really nothing more than a role we adopt to interact with others and express our needs or fulfil the needs of others. It has more to do with control and what we do with that control. Some people feel more comfortable when they can maintain more general, global control and 'surrender' the more immediate and specific control to the other person (the submissive). Others feel that they can express themselves better when they have that immediate, specific control and are subject themselves to the more specific control. I feel submission and dominance is much more to do with interaction than our personal strength (or lack of it).

The most simple analogy I can think of is the motorist who has been pulled over by a cop. In this situation the motorist is submissive and the cop is dominant. The motorist has global control, they have rights, there are laws but let's say for example the motorist exceeded the speed limit. The cop is aware of this control, the cop knows he cannot drag the motorist out of the car and beat him to a pulp, he knows he cannot arrest the motorist and subject him to 3 days of interrogation, the cop stays within his limits.

However the motorist is under the direct and specific control of the cop. The motorist knows he must stop, he must produce his licence, and he must do what the officer says. The officer deals with the motorist according to his own needs (the law, local police policies, his own judgement, etc) but also the needs of the motorist (for example, the motorist's safety).

It is not a perfect analogy of course, in fact it is flawed (still there might be people out there who do drive and who do enjoy being pulled over by cops, who knows?). But I gave it to show a basic example of how two people interact in a way found in a relationship with a D/s dynamic and how they both have control.

Yes, the submissive surrenders, and perhaps needs to feel that surrender and I can understand this. But it isn't total surrender, but surrender in one specific situation, and therefore in my opinion has nothing to do with whether a person is strong or weak.

Human relationships by their very nature are dynamic and fluid, and in them we experience a wide range of different feelings, emotions, moods and thoughts, we fluctuate, we change, and we do so because we find ourselves in many different situations and interacting in different ways with many different people. This is why nobody can be consistently dominant at a certain level nor can anyone be consistently submissive, we are all dominant and all submissive at different times with different people, and our 'dominant' or 'submissive' label really only applies to the role we feel most comfortable in when we choose to interact with someone at a close personal level.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveish

Imagine hearing "Hold still or this cut will go deep" and then seeing your blood, bright red and oddly beautiful, on the shiny silver edge of a razor blade. Submission (slavery, in my case) is not weakness - it is an intense mindset.

Then there are the mundane tasks: journaling and cleaning and cooking (and the list goes on). I do not always want to do these things but I do them. It requires self-discipline and the desire to serve another.

There are also forbidden things like smoking and drinking. I have an addictive personality and it is not always easy to ignore my cravings for certain things, but I refuse to give in to them because Master has forbidden them.

Submission is not always difficult - there are definite positive and pleasant payoffs - but it certainly isn't a mindless or weak identity.

quote:

Perhaps I am a weak person, and that is why I am struggling with the concept.     I don't know what it is, I can't put my finger on it.  

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveish
Submission is not always difficult - there are definite positive and pleasant payoffs - but it certainly isn't a mindless or weak identity.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveaurora
Such a shame too, cause I think I used to be a darned good slave.   

I think, no, I know, that is why I feel weak.  I don't have what it takes anymore.    

a~